YFred wrote:Omer Seyhan wrote:Acikgoz wrote:Omer Seyhan wrote:Acikgoz wrote:Omer, apologies if I came across offensive or arrogant, I am frustrated that the time you invested into your proclamation has been repeated many times before with only a limited number of people latching on and therefore would assume (my opinion - which may be wrong) misreading the "material" you are working with. I would say you may well be ahead of your time on this, the people are not ready and they continute to demonstrate this, and you never know you may also be wrong.
I have no crystal ball as to how Cyprus will be "solved" although I am certain that any solution will only be the start rather than the end of the next chapter in Cyprus politics and constitution formation. However, only when the ideals of the people all point in the same direction and love and respect for the majority of both communities goes beyond words and into actions will a unified Cypriot identity truly have the opportunity to be formed.
The external powers issue is a red herring for Cypriotness, given both sides do this constantly and unashamedly. They will always be called in. Turkey gets lambasted, so does Greece, both sides call on their allies for leverage. GCs that call on Turkey to stop their influence are hypocritical when Greece or France or the EU is brought to the aid of RoC.
They will always for the forseable future have influence and be called upon for influence so let's be realistic here.
Measures that promote integration or development without the need for control are the easiest way I see right now to foster respect, love or understanding. It is not immediate or grand but can create trust organicly and as a result has a greater power for influencing the mindsets of Cypriots as to a level of goodness that can be found.
YOU SAID:
However, only when the ideals of the people all point in the same direction and love and respect for the majority of both communities goes beyond words and into actions will a unified Cypriot identity truly have the opportunity to be formedThis is your responsibility. What are doing about it?
No need for apologies my friend. Let me be clear, I believe in Cypriot unity very strongly and I am prepared to suffer for my cause. Are you prepared?
I have had enough of lawyers and academic-wannabees arguing against Cypriot unity for the sake of a 'healthy debate'. Most of these confused people switch sides overnight for years. By the time you finally decide what you want your pessimism will have caused much damage to Cyprus, are you aware of that?
I know what I want so don't tell me that the majority are not ready. That's rubbish. I can tell with much experience that misinformation (especially the type preferred by the intelligence services) gets around like a winter vomiting virus and like a vomiting virus it makes me sick.
A unified "solution" is no solution if the people don't believe in it. Evidence 1960. That is the meaning of the phrase you bolded.
The rest of what you say makes no sense to me - pessimism and realism are different, one is not a sub-set or equal to the other.
Arguing against Cypriot unity - show me the relevant progress that has been made in the minds of the people to promote unity. What I am saying is that the evidence to make the argument for unity is lacking.
Misinformation, intelligence services, vomiting - sorry, cannot understand where all this came from.
My biggest problem with you is that you talk about what 'evidence' is there to make the argument for unity while ignoring the mostly good times Cypriots lived in over the past 500 years. The bad times are 1963, 1964, 1967, and 1974 or four years! There were Turkish speaking Cypriots up to 1974 who were ambassadors of Cyprus abroad, one such person was ambassador to Ankara. Makarios' adviser Dr Ihsan Ali was another such person.
You talk with your British experience as if Cypriots in Cyprus have been free all along since 1960. I consider this not only an attempt to ignore history, remember the coup, the invasion and the occupation, but deeply insulting to our collective memory.
You talk as if Cypriots have democratic freedom under the occupation of the north. You do not refer to jerrymandering, vote buying or the settler voters imported in to Cyprus.... you are selective.
This is the
misinformation I refer to. The origin of this misinformation is the Turkish intelligence services (in case you do not already know) who use media and people like you as channels to regurgitate their views.
Congratulations, you are television set with the remote control controlled by somebody else. The only intellectual efforts you make alone you make to destroy my 'unrealistic' dream of Cypriot unity. If I'm unrealistic then why do I bother you so much?
Omer, what you say about the north was true up untill Talat was elected against the wishes of Turkey. Now we have the situation where the new president is also elected against the wishes of Turkey.
There are just as much media control and election manipulation in the south. We are not alone in that.
How do you see the peace agreement materialise? What would be acceptable and unaceptable to you.
After Talat won he had to make many concessions to survive under the occupation which inevitably lost him a lot of his core voters. A 'TRNC President' is really a "Governor" of a Turkish colony whose main control is exercised by the colonial power.
This time round, I agree that the TRNC electorate voted for a candidate that Erdogan did not want. You are quite right. I don't disagree.
However, I would say it was always an 'election' between Ergenkon and Erdogan in the first place. It was never a Turkish Cypriot one and its wrong to paint it as much.
Acikgoz speaks as if, were the Cypriots in the north to want unity, argue for it, vote for it etc, then it will happen, but thats not the case. He doesn't understand how KKTC (TRNC) works and who it really serves.
As with last time, jerrymandering took place again in this 'election', settlers continued to make up the bulk of voters some of whom are very much new comers, there was media control by Eroglu working closely with the military, this is what I have observed and have been told by those I know in these fields.
Media control in the south is very different; the south is not under foreign occupation and as its in the EU, it has to adhere to EU laws and directives which encourages greater transparency. There is more hope of change there.
The north by contrast is isolated and occupied, nobody knows or cares about what we go through there and how many leave the occupied north to come to Britain with bad memories of how they were treated there.
For me a political settlement based on BBF would work. But political solutions are one part of it. I prefer as stated to focus on working with the people to instill a feeling of belonging and togetherness - call it Cypriotism. A new Cyprus that is reunited will need a strong sense of unionism to survive its many challenges confidently, if people think we can have a reunified Cyprus without social unity then they are dangerously mistaken. Lastly, you need to do this know as individuals before a political solution as the latter requires the former.
