Cyprus-Forum.com

[Acikgoz]

Omer, apologies if I came across offensive or arrogant, I am frustrated that the time you invested into your proclamation has been repeated many times before with only a limited number of people latching on and therefore would assume (my opinion - which may be wrong) misreading the "material" you are working with. I would say you may well be ahead of your time on this, the people are not ready and they continute to demonstrate this, and you never know you may also be wrong.

I have no crystal ball as to how Cyprus will be "solved" although I am certain that any solution will only be the start rather than the end of the next chapter in Cyprus politics and constitution formation. However, only when the ideals of the people all point in the same direction and love and respect for the majority of both communities goes beyond words and into actions will a unified Cypriot identity truly have the opportunity to be formed.
The external powers issue is a red herring for Cypriotness, given both sides do this constantly and unashamedly. They will always be called in. Turkey gets lambasted, so does Greece, both sides call on their allies for leverage. GCs that call on Turkey to stop their influence are hypocritical when Greece or France or the EU is brought to the aid of RoC.
They will always for the forseable future have influence and be called upon for influence so let's be realistic here.

Measures that promote integration or development without the need for control are the easiest way I see right now to foster respect, love or understanding. It is not immediate or grand but can create trust organicly and as a result has a greater power for influencing the mindsets of Cypriots as to a level of goodness that can be found.

[Omer Seyhan]

Omer, apologies if I came across offensive or arrogant, I am frustrated that the time you invested into your proclamation has been repeated many times before with only a limited number of people latching on and therefore would assume (my opinion - which may be wrong) misreading the "material" you are working with. I would say you may well be ahead of your time on this, the people are not ready and they continute to demonstrate this, and you never know you may also be wrong.

I have no crystal ball as to how Cyprus will be "solved" although I am certain that any solution will only be the start rather than the end of the next chapter in Cyprus politics and constitution formation. However, only when the ideals of the people all point in the same direction and love and respect for the majority of both communities goes beyond words and into actions will a unified Cypriot identity truly have the opportunity to be formed.
The external powers issue is a red herring for Cypriotness, given both sides do this constantly and unashamedly. They will always be called in. Turkey gets lambasted, so does Greece, both sides call on their allies for leverage. GCs that call on Turkey to stop their influence are hypocritical when Greece or France or the EU is brought to the aid of RoC.
They will always for the forseable future have influence and be called upon for influence so let's be realistic here.

Measures that promote integration or development without the need for control are the easiest way I see right now to foster respect, love or understanding. It is not immediate or grand but can create trust organicly and as a result has a greater power for influencing the mindsets of Cypriots as to a level of goodness that can be found.

YOU SAID: However, only when the ideals of the people all point in the same direction and love and respect for the majority of both communities goes beyond words and into actions will a unified Cypriot identity truly have the opportunity to be formed

This is your responsibility. What are doing about it?

No need for apologies my friend. Let me be clear, I believe in Cypriot unity very strongly and I am prepared to suffer for my cause. Are you prepared?

I have had enough of lawyers and academic-wannabees arguing against Cypriot unity for the sake of a 'healthy debate'. Most of these confused people switch sides overnight for years. By the time you finally decide what you want your pessimism will have caused much damage to Cyprus, are you aware of that?

I know what I want so don't tell me that the majority are not ready. That's rubbish. I can tell with much experience that misinformation (especially the type preferred by the intelligence services) gets around like a winter vomiting virus and like a vomiting virus it makes me sick.

[Gasman]

But don't you think your 'dream for Cyprus' would have had more chance of coming to fruition if it had been acted on MUCH EARLIER?

I keep reading that it is just because it has taken so long, because of that long passage of time and the lack of will for unification now from both sides, but mainly the TCs, that the bi-zonal or bi-whateveral solution looks like the only one that will ever come about.

[Acikgoz]

Omer, apologies if I came across offensive or arrogant, I am frustrated that the time you invested into your proclamation has been repeated many times before with only a limited number of people latching on and therefore would assume (my opinion - which may be wrong) misreading the "material" you are working with. I would say you may well be ahead of your time on this, the people are not ready and they continute to demonstrate this, and you never know you may also be wrong.

I have no crystal ball as to how Cyprus will be "solved" although I am certain that any solution will only be the start rather than the end of the next chapter in Cyprus politics and constitution formation. However, only when the ideals of the people all point in the same direction and love and respect for the majority of both communities goes beyond words and into actions will a unified Cypriot identity truly have the opportunity to be formed.
The external powers issue is a red herring for Cypriotness, given both sides do this constantly and unashamedly. They will always be called in. Turkey gets lambasted, so does Greece, both sides call on their allies for leverage. GCs that call on Turkey to stop their influence are hypocritical when Greece or France or the EU is brought to the aid of RoC.
They will always for the forseable future have influence and be called upon for influence so let's be realistic here.

Measures that promote integration or development without the need for control are the easiest way I see right now to foster respect, love or understanding. It is not immediate or grand but can create trust organicly and as a result has a greater power for influencing the mindsets of Cypriots as to a level of goodness that can be found.

YOU SAID: However, only when the ideals of the people all point in the same direction and love and respect for the majority of both communities goes beyond words and into actions will a unified Cypriot identity truly have the opportunity to be formed

This is your responsibility. What are doing about it?

No need for apologies my friend. Let me be clear, I believe in Cypriot unity very strongly and I am prepared to suffer for my cause. Are you prepared?

I have had enough of lawyers and academic-wannabees arguing against Cypriot unity for the sake of a 'healthy debate'. Most of these confused people switch sides overnight for years. By the time you finally decide what you want your pessimism will have caused much damage to Cyprus, are you aware of that?

I know what I want so don't tell me that the majority are not ready. That's rubbish. I can tell with much experience that misinformation (especially the type preferred by the intelligence services) gets around like a winter vomiting virus and like a vomiting virus it makes me sick.

A unified "solution" is no solution if the people don't believe in it. Evidence 1960. That is the meaning of the phrase you bolded.

The rest of what you say makes no sense to me - pessimism and realism are different, one is not a sub-set or equal to the other.

Arguing against Cypriot unity - show me the relevant progress that has been made in the minds of the people to promote unity. What I am saying is that the evidence to make the argument for unity is lacking.

Misinformation, intelligence services, vomiting - sorry, cannot understand where all this came from.

[Omer Seyhan]

Omer, apologies if I came across offensive or arrogant, I am frustrated that the time you invested into your proclamation has been repeated many times before with only a limited number of people latching on and therefore would assume (my opinion - which may be wrong) misreading the "material" you are working with. I would say you may well be ahead of your time on this, the people are not ready and they continute to demonstrate this, and you never know you may also be wrong.

I have no crystal ball as to how Cyprus will be "solved" although I am certain that any solution will only be the start rather than the end of the next chapter in Cyprus politics and constitution formation. However, only when the ideals of the people all point in the same direction and love and respect for the majority of both communities goes beyond words and into actions will a unified Cypriot identity truly have the opportunity to be formed.
The external powers issue is a red herring for Cypriotness, given both sides do this constantly and unashamedly. They will always be called in. Turkey gets lambasted, so does Greece, both sides call on their allies for leverage. GCs that call on Turkey to stop their influence are hypocritical when Greece or France or the EU is brought to the aid of RoC.
They will always for the forseable future have influence and be called upon for influence so let's be realistic here.

Measures that promote integration or development without the need for control are the easiest way I see right now to foster respect, love or understanding. It is not immediate or grand but can create trust organicly and as a result has a greater power for influencing the mindsets of Cypriots as to a level of goodness that can be found.

YOU SAID: However, only when the ideals of the people all point in the same direction and love and respect for the majority of both communities goes beyond words and into actions will a unified Cypriot identity truly have the opportunity to be formed

This is your responsibility. What are doing about it?

No need for apologies my friend. Let me be clear, I believe in Cypriot unity very strongly and I am prepared to suffer for my cause. Are you prepared?

I have had enough of lawyers and academic-wannabees arguing against Cypriot unity for the sake of a 'healthy debate'. Most of these confused people switch sides overnight for years. By the time you finally decide what you want your pessimism will have caused much damage to Cyprus, are you aware of that?

I know what I want so don't tell me that the majority are not ready. That's rubbish. I can tell with much experience that misinformation (especially the type preferred by the intelligence services) gets around like a winter vomiting virus and like a vomiting virus it makes me sick.

A unified "solution" is no solution if the people don't believe in it. Evidence 1960. That is the meaning of the phrase you bolded.

The rest of what you say makes no sense to me - pessimism and realism are different, one is not a sub-set or equal to the other.

Arguing against Cypriot unity - show me the relevant progress that has been made in the minds of the people to promote unity. What I am saying is that the evidence to make the argument for unity is lacking.

Misinformation, intelligence services, vomiting - sorry, cannot understand where all this came from.

My biggest problem with you is that you talk about what 'evidence' is there to make the argument for unity while ignoring the mostly good times Cypriots lived in over the past 500 years. The bad times are 1963, 1964, 1967, and 1974 or four years! There were Turkish speaking Cypriots up to 1974 who were ambassadors of Cyprus abroad, one such person was ambassador to Ankara. Makarios' adviser Dr Ihsan Ali was another such person.

You talk with your British experience as if Cypriots in Cyprus have been free all along since 1960. I consider this not only an attempt to ignore history, remember the coup, the invasion and the occupation, but deeply insulting to our collective memory.

You talk as if Cypriots have democratic freedom under the occupation of the north. You do not refer to jerrymandering, vote buying or the settler voters imported in to Cyprus.... you are selective.

This is the misinformation I refer to. The origin of this misinformation is the Turkish intelligence services (in case you do not already know) who use media and people like you as channels to regurgitate their views.

Congratulations, you are television set with the remote control controlled by somebody else. The only intellectual efforts you make alone you make to destroy my 'unrealistic' dream of Cypriot unity. If I'm unrealistic then why do I bother you so much?

[YFred]

Omer, apologies if I came across offensive or arrogant, I am frustrated that the time you invested into your proclamation has been repeated many times before with only a limited number of people latching on and therefore would assume (my opinion - which may be wrong) misreading the "material" you are working with. I would say you may well be ahead of your time on this, the people are not ready and they continute to demonstrate this, and you never know you may also be wrong.

I have no crystal ball as to how Cyprus will be "solved" although I am certain that any solution will only be the start rather than the end of the next chapter in Cyprus politics and constitution formation. However, only when the ideals of the people all point in the same direction and love and respect for the majority of both communities goes beyond words and into actions will a unified Cypriot identity truly have the opportunity to be formed.
The external powers issue is a red herring for Cypriotness, given both sides do this constantly and unashamedly. They will always be called in. Turkey gets lambasted, so does Greece, both sides call on their allies for leverage. GCs that call on Turkey to stop their influence are hypocritical when Greece or France or the EU is brought to the aid of RoC.
They will always for the forseable future have influence and be called upon for influence so let's be realistic here.

Measures that promote integration or development without the need for control are the easiest way I see right now to foster respect, love or understanding. It is not immediate or grand but can create trust organicly and as a result has a greater power for influencing the mindsets of Cypriots as to a level of goodness that can be found.

YOU SAID: However, only when the ideals of the people all point in the same direction and love and respect for the majority of both communities goes beyond words and into actions will a unified Cypriot identity truly have the opportunity to be formed

This is your responsibility. What are doing about it?

No need for apologies my friend. Let me be clear, I believe in Cypriot unity very strongly and I am prepared to suffer for my cause. Are you prepared?

I have had enough of lawyers and academic-wannabees arguing against Cypriot unity for the sake of a 'healthy debate'. Most of these confused people switch sides overnight for years. By the time you finally decide what you want your pessimism will have caused much damage to Cyprus, are you aware of that?

I know what I want so don't tell me that the majority are not ready. That's rubbish. I can tell with much experience that misinformation (especially the type preferred by the intelligence services) gets around like a winter vomiting virus and like a vomiting virus it makes me sick.

A unified "solution" is no solution if the people don't believe in it. Evidence 1960. That is the meaning of the phrase you bolded.

The rest of what you say makes no sense to me - pessimism and realism are different, one is not a sub-set or equal to the other.

Arguing against Cypriot unity - show me the relevant progress that has been made in the minds of the people to promote unity. What I am saying is that the evidence to make the argument for unity is lacking.

Misinformation, intelligence services, vomiting - sorry, cannot understand where all this came from.

My biggest problem with you is that you talk about what 'evidence' is there to make the argument for unity while ignoring the mostly good times Cypriots lived in over the past 500 years. The bad times are 1963, 1964, 1967, and 1974 or four years! There were Turkish speaking Cypriots up to 1974 who were ambassadors of Cyprus abroad, one such person was ambassador to Ankara. Makarios' adviser Dr Ihsan Ali was another such person.

You talk with your British experience as if Cypriots in Cyprus have been free all along since 1960. I consider this not only an attempt to ignore history, remember the coup, the invasion and the occupation, but deeply insulting to our collective memory.

You talk as if Cypriots have democratic freedom under the occupation of the north. You do not refer to jerrymandering, vote buying or the settler voters imported in to Cyprus.... you are selective.

This is the misinformation I refer to. The origin of this misinformation is the Turkish intelligence services (in case you do not already know) who use media and people like you as channels to regurgitate their views.

Congratulations, you are television set with the remote control controlled by somebody else. The only intellectual efforts you make alone you make to destroy my 'unrealistic' dream of Cypriot unity. If I'm unrealistic then why do I bother you so much?

Omer, what you say about the north was true up untill Talat was elected against the wishes of Turkey. Now we have the situation where the new president is also elected against the wishes of Turkey.

There are just as much media control and election manipulation in the south. We are not alone in that.

How do you see the peace agreement materialise? What would be acceptable and unaceptable to you.

[Acikgoz]

OMG - get realistic, stop going all over the houses and stick to the points I am making rather than making up others in my name so you can undermine them and there-by me.
Note, you don't bother me, as I said earlier, I am disappointed for you in the time you've invested for what will amount to more of the same (my belief from what I have witnessed from your posts), perhaps I am wrong and you will succeed where everyone else, even great men like Osker Ozgur have come unstuck.

[YFred]

OMG - get realistic, stop going all over the houses and stick to the points I am making rather than making up others in my name so you can undermine them and there-by me.
Note, you don't bother me, as I said earlier, I am disappointed for you in the time you've invested for what will amount to more of the same (my belief from what I have witnessed from your posts), perhaps I am wrong and you will succeed where everyone else, even great men like Osker Ozgur have come unstuck.

Was it not Ozker Ozgur that laid the foundations for what is going on today when it wasn't fashionable to talk peace and infact run serious danger of being called a greek lover.

[Omer Seyhan]

OMG - get realistic, stop going all over the houses and stick to the points I am making rather than making up others in my name so you can undermine them and there-by me.
Note, you don't bother me, as I said earlier, I am disappointed for you in the time you've invested for what will amount to more of the same (my belief from what I have witnessed from your posts), perhaps I am wrong and you will succeed where everyone else, even great men like Osker Ozgur have come unstuck.

They are relevant points that you need to consider.

[Viewpoint]

And so am I Milti, but unfortunately I wish it could be done. If all the GCs were like you and Bananiot, we would have no problem but as you are aware we both have our extremes who do not have the same interests. Untill we learn how to contain them, unfortunately it will have to remain a dream.

YFred this diversity can be focused toward the enemies which as Individuals we stand united against, in a State , as the Stewards of this island, to defend the Universal Rights we have as Humans without discrimination. in Cyprus, and in many parts of the world, its citizens desire as well an Identity as Persons. i repeat myself, our Problem is not a "Greek/Turk" issue. it is a definition we seek for the Principal of Bicommunality, which is "perfect", that is to say that the rest of Mankind can hold it in esteem and emulate it.

as we travel further in time from this task, it suits the interlocutors who prefer to resist this change in Human nature. Thus to act as a Cypriot, rather than a "Turk" or a "Greek" becomes vital for a movement toward Tolerance, and against Ignorance as a whole.

the link(s) is there; read, please.

...i would be happy to read your questions.

How exactly will you defend everyone rights when the advantage is in your favor and we are the ones at risk?