Cyprus-Forum.com

[repulsewarrior]

mr. A., i would appreciate your comments too...

...please read my manifesto.

[Omer Seyhan]

Omer state how you would fordge unity how do you see BBF if you see it at all?

Everybody can see your bad will and nobody is fooled by your apparent call for a 'healthy' debate. You've already decided your stand - hence the flag and slogan beneath your screen name, so why should anybody debate with you on a Cyprus forum for all Cypriots?

Here here !

Why here here? all he has put forward is a lot of hotair, lets read something concrete and then decide whether he is a man of substance.

My generation has been handed the keys to resolve the Cyprus problem and what I have been arguing is that a political solution, confidence boosting measures etc etc are not the only things that are important. It matters not how many matches of football have been played. A true peace can only come about through a change in thought - which you have the power to control at any time.

You can start by taking your Turkish flag down, removing your "long live the TRNC" slogan and pull your head out of your arse. Talk to your Greek speaking Cypriot brothers and sisters in a more gentle, polite and considerate way - then you will be 75% of the way there. Remember, we are the inheritors of peace not the perpetuators of conflict.

[repulsewarrior]

vp,

...you too, reread my manifesto, and this time put substance, like why your ideas serves Cypriots better than mine. "i don't like it", "will not work" is not enough.

thanks.

[Omer Seyhan]

If Cypriotism is based on trust then steps need to be taken in the right direction. First Turkey needs to remove its troops from the island. Maintaining the troops just creates a permanent divide.

Love this angle of reasoning. Get the other side to build trust first then, by implication the other side works on trust?
Oh how simple and self fullfiling we wish life to be.

Omer your post is like hunderds if not thousands that have gone before it. Loads of waffle, nothing of real world substance. Yes, yes, utopia, utopia for Cypriots, the cause of problems are from the outside. Grow up - this is not some Hollywood feel good movie with the obvious good guys and bad guys where at the end of the day we all live happily ever after ... Please make sure you put all your empty popcorn cartons and soft drinks in the waste as you leave the fantasy cinema.

Dreams come before substance my dear fellow Cypriot. So....what are you doing to bring about substance?

Your post presents nothing, no passion, no aim - it is simply a paragraph of frustration, bitterness, anger and an invitation to do nothing. I pity you, what a wretched life you must have.

Omer bey, life is simple, be happy be healthy, yet the devil is in the details. The human spirit may be indominatiable yet human character is far from virtuous.

Simplification of a complex problem is what I see you doing and so many that have done so in the past. You put forward a utopian pan-Cypriot ideology yet the required foundation does not exist, or an analogy, you are trying to bake a chocolate cake with anchovies, chocolate, hellumi and turkish coffee yet the sugar eggs and flour are missing.

How many initiatives have been put forward by outside parties to fall flat, castigated by the majority on both sides. How far have we moved since 2001? Forwards then backwards in this pan-Cypriot ideology. It is not a blame game I am describing here but an evaluation of the situation.

Have you seen a friendly football match between a TC team and GC one? What harm here? Confidence booster - no recognition implied. One could come up with hundreds of examples of what can be done yet are not.

This is why I think those that keep coming up with 40,000 troops or no access to my land are partisan not "Cypriot." Also those that blame Turkey or Greece, when it served Cypriots they asked for their help, now, they serve as the boogie monster....

We are far from intellectual thought on the analysis yet alone potential solution - what you describe is a feel good movie with all the dark and real bits removed.

Thanks for the analysis. Ok, what do you want me to say "acikgoz" (aware / alert one), that you are intelligent? a Phd candidate? of 1st class essay standard?

Before you write your 'thesis' next time ask yourself what do you want to come out of it? People even academics write with a purpose. You write in a bid to try to demolish the concept of Cypriot unity, which we have not achieved but you offer nothing in return....

So, what is it that you propose? conflict? TRNC upgrade or recognition?

Be clear and declare your interests.

[Omer Seyhan]

Omer state how you would fordge unity how do you see BBF if you see it at all?

Everybody can see your bad will and nobody is fooled by your apparent call for a 'healthy' debate. You've already decided your stand - hence the flag and slogan beneath your screen name, so why should anybody debate with you on a Cyprus forum for all Cypriots?

Here here !

Why here here? all he has put forward is a lot of hotair, lets read something concrete and then decide whether he is a man of substance.

I argued that we need a change of thought, a kind of philosophical revolution that would lay the foundations for and support the quest for a political solution. That is clearly expressed in all my posts. But I don't think you are capable of understanding them, pity.

Or perhaps you do understand them but you want to drag me into a historical lecture to somehow support your claim to 'victimhood' so that you can justify partition....

[Malapapa]

Thanks for the analysis. Ok, what do you want me to say "acikgoz" (aware / alert one), that you are intelligent? a Phd candidate? of 1st class essay standard?

Did I miss something?

[Omer Seyhan]

But...but...but....We are told Cyprus is a Greek island every day...Turkish Cypriots are just Ottoman remnants responsible for the real and imaginary sins of the Ottomans going back to 1571...

Yes? And if someone called you a stupid donkey, what would you do? Go along with it or prove them wrong?

What is more the TCs are thieves and traitors who voluntarily left their homes,their ancestors' lands back in the 60s,to help Turkey's territorial ambitions...Why,the TCs even walked out of the RoC govenment for the same reason and spent 11 years huddled in enclaves waiting for the axe to fall...What do you say to that Omer Seyhan??? Which Cypriotism are you talking about???.

The one where Cypriots stop being victims.

I am not talking to you,you stupid little upstart!

If you weren't such a donkey, I might be offended.

I want to hear from Omer Seyhan...Unless YOU happen to be HIM...

No. I've moved beyond Omer's nebulous, airy-fairy CypriotISM. I'm onto the more down-to-earth, practical CypriotNESS.

Cypriotness is another way of describing Cypriotism. I sense you prefer to say the former in order to keep those who have fallen for propaganda on your side, lest they accuse you of racism. Do gooders, the very people you fear will call you a racist choose to ignore the racism of Greek and Turkish nationalisms however.

Every nation was created by nationalism, where symbols, institutions etc were developed (sometimes artificially) to engender a feeling of belonging for citizens and for them to recognise and associate themselves with their new state. Even today, modern Western European states even whip up nationalism (under different names) when it suits them. For example: The introduction of citizenship tests and classes in the UK, and oath ceremonies for those naturalised as British citizens....

Not all nationalism is bad. There is mono-ethnic nationalism that encourages conflict and extermination, i.e. the Young Turk struggle to create a Turkish ethnically homogenous state involved the genocide of the Armenians. This is NOT what I propose.

The kind I propose is Liberal Nationalism - where all Cypriot citizens are equal in the same way that such a system flourishes in multi-faith, multi-ethnic Belgium, Canada and Switzerland. These are our models not Greece or Turkey. We should not look at them for inspiration.

[Acikgoz]

Rwarrior, I have read and I thought commented before on your manifestos and believe there is much logic and validity to what you laid out.

[denizaksulu]

If Cypriotism is based on trust then steps need to be taken in the right direction. First Turkey needs to remove its troops from the island. Maintaining the troops just creates a permanent divide.

Love this angle of reasoning. Get the other side to build trust first then, by implication the other side works on trust?
Oh how simple and self fullfiling we wish life to be.

Omer your post is like hunderds if not thousands that have gone before it. Loads of waffle, nothing of real world substance. Yes, yes, utopia, utopia for Cypriots, the cause of problems are from the outside. Grow up - this is not some Hollywood feel good movie with the obvious good guys and bad guys where at the end of the day we all live happily ever after ... Please make sure you put all your empty popcorn cartons and soft drinks in the waste as you leave the fantasy cinema.

Dreams come before substance my dear fellow Cypriot. So....what are you doing to bring about substance?

Your post presents nothing, no passion, no aim - it is simply a paragraph of frustration, bitterness, anger and an invitation to do nothing. I pity you, what a wretched life you must have.

Omer bey, life is simple, be happy be healthy, yet the devil is in the details. The human spirit may be indominatiable yet human character is far from virtuous.

Simplification of a complex problem is what I see you doing and so many that have done so in the past. You put forward a utopian pan-Cypriot ideology yet the required foundation does not exist, or an analogy, you are trying to bake a chocolate cake with anchovies, chocolate, hellumi and turkish coffee yet the sugar eggs and flour are missing.

How many initiatives have been put forward by outside parties to fall flat, castigated by the majority on both sides. How far have we moved since 2001? Forwards then backwards in this pan-Cypriot ideology. It is not a blame game I am describing here but an evaluation of the situation.

Have you seen a friendly football match between a TC team and GC one? What harm here? Confidence booster - no recognition implied. One could come up with hundreds of examples of what can be done yet are not.

This is why I think those that keep coming up with 40,000 troops or no access to my land are partisan not "Cypriot." Also those that blame Turkey or Greece, when it served Cypriots they asked for their help, now, they serve as the boogie monster....

We are far from intellectual thought on the analysis yet alone potential solution - what you describe is a feel good movie with all the dark and real bits removed.

Thanks for the analysis. Ok, what do you want me to say "acikgoz" (aware / alert one), that you are intelligent? a Phd candidate? of 1st class essay standard?

Before you write your 'thesis' next time ask yourself what do you want to come out of it? People even academics write with a purpose. You write in a bid to try to demolish the concept of Cypriot unity, which we have not achieved but you offer nothing in return....

So, what is it that you propose? conflict? TRNC upgrade or recognition?

Be clear and declare your interests.

[Malapapa]

But...but...but....We are told Cyprus is a Greek island every day...Turkish Cypriots are just Ottoman remnants responsible for the real and imaginary sins of the Ottomans going back to 1571...

Yes? And if someone called you a stupid donkey, what would you do? Go along with it or prove them wrong?

What is more the TCs are thieves and traitors who voluntarily left their homes,their ancestors' lands back in the 60s,to help Turkey's territorial ambitions...Why,the TCs even walked out of the RoC govenment for the same reason and spent 11 years huddled in enclaves waiting for the axe to fall...What do you say to that Omer Seyhan??? Which Cypriotism are you talking about???.

The one where Cypriots stop being victims.

I am not talking to you,you stupid little upstart!

If you weren't such a donkey, I might be offended.

I want to hear from Omer Seyhan...Unless YOU happen to be HIM...

No. I've moved beyond Omer's nebulous, airy-fairy CypriotISM. I'm onto the more down-to-earth, practical CypriotNESS.

Cypriotness is another way of describing Cypriotism. I sense you prefer to say the former in order to keep those who have fallen for propaganda on your side, lest they accuse you of racism. Do gooders, the very people you fear will call you a racist choose to ignore the racism of Greek and Turkish nationalisms however.

Every nation was created by nationalism, where symbols, institutions etc were developed (sometimes artificially) to engender a feeling of belonging for citizens and for them to recognise and associate themselves with their new state. Even today, modern Western European states even whip up nationalism (under different names) when it suits them. For example: The introduction of citizenship tests and classes in the UK, and oath ceremonies for those naturalised as British citizens....

Not all nationalism is bad. There is mono-ethnic nationalism that encourages conflict and extermination, i.e. the Young Turk struggle to create a Turkish ethnically homogenous state involved the genocide of the Armenians. This is NOT what I propose.

The kind I propose is Liberal Nationalism - where all Cypriot citizens are equal in the same way that such a system flourishes in multi-faith, multi-ethnic Belgium, Canada and Switzerland. These are our models not Greece or Turkey. We should not look at them for inspiration.

Yes, sure. But I'm working on a new poster...