Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Bir Piratis is a clear example of why there will never be a solution as Piratis is the modern day version of enosis it is still alive and kicking and would place us in great danger.

BORING

But very true.

[growuptcs]

Bir Piratis is a clear example of why there will never be a solution as Piratis is the modern day version of enosis it is still alive and kicking and would place us in great danger.

BORING

But very true.

As true as not driving at all because drunk drivers exist.

[Viewpoint]

Bir Piratis is a clear example of why there will never be a solution as Piratis is the modern day version of enosis it is still alive and kicking and would place us in great danger.

BORING

But very true.

As true as not driving at all because drunk drivers exist.

Drunk drivers are found and fined even imprisioned.

[Malapapa]

Bir Piratis is a clear example of why there will never be a solution as Piratis is the modern day version of enosis it is still alive and kicking and would place us in great danger.

BORING

But very true.

As true as not driving at all because drunk drivers exist.

Drunk drivers are found and fined even imprisioned.

Were you drunk when you chose Turkey's flag as your ID?

[Jerry]

Bir Piratis is a clear example of why there will never be a solution as Piratis is the modern day version of enosis it is still alive and kicking and would place us in great danger.

BORING

But very true.

As true as not driving at all because drunk drivers exist.

Drunk drivers are found and fined even imprisioned.

Were you drunk when you chose Turkey's flag as your ID?

No but he was drunk when he agreed that his post was boring.

[insan]

IMHO, Tim does not need anyone's incentives to return to forum and keep contributing...

He is the maturest member of this forum... I've learnt a lot from his informative translations... Furthermore, his investigative style and eloborative comments on issues have always gingered me up to engage into a good discussion with him...

[Piratis]

The same can be said about Piratis. But what gets me is that if it were Piratis who left, there wouldn't be so many calling for his return.

quote]

Now I wonder why that would be?

See what I mean GR! Imbecilic exhibit A.

I guess democracy and free speach does not apply to all equally.

It's got nothing to do with democracy and free speech. I would say that one of the contributors in question is a fanatical racist who refuses to see the middle ground, the other has more moderate and intelligent views.

Jerry, can you tell me one thing from what I support that can be described as "racist"?

Unfortunately you are a victim of the "Middle Ground Fallacy"

Fallacy: Middle Ground

Also Known as: Golden Mean Fallacy, Fallacy of Moderation

Description of Middle Ground:

This fallacy is committed when it is assumed that the middle position between two extremes must be correct simply because it is the middle position. this sort of "reasoning" has the following form:

1. Position A and B are two extreme positions.
2. C is a position that rests in the middle between A and B.
3. Therefore C is the correct position.

This line of "reasoning" is fallacious because it does not follow that a position is correct just because it lies in the middle of two extremes. This is shown by the following example. Suppose that a person is selling his computer. He wants to sell it for the current market value, which is $800 and someone offers him $1 for it. It would hardly follow that $400.50 is the proper price.

This fallacy draws its power from the fact that a moderate or middle position is often the correct one. For example, a moderate amount of exercise is better than too much exercise or too little exercise. However, this is not simply because it lies in the middle ground between two extremes. It is because too much exercise is harmful and too little exercise is all but useless. The basic idea behind many cases in which moderation is correct is that the extremes are typically "too much" and "not enough" and the middle position is "enough." In such cases the middle position is correct almost by definition.

It should be kept in mind that while uncritically assuming that the middle position must be correct because it is the middle position is poor reasoning it does not follow that accepting a middle position is always fallacious. As was just mentioned, many times a moderate position is correct. However, the claim that the moderate or middle position is correct must be supported by legitimate reasoning.

http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacie ... round.html

What I support is democracy, human rights for every singe Cypriot, and freedom to Cyprus so the Cypriot people can democratically choose what they want for their own island. I say no to ethnic cleansing, no to segregation and racist discrimination.

What the Turkish side supports is the complete opposite. They want as much segregation and separation as they can get, discrimination of the Cypriot people based on their ethnicity, human rights violations and a system that is anything but democratic.

Now tell me Jerry, what is racism from what I support? Is equality of all Cypriots without racist discrimination and without segregation racism? Is the right of the Cypriot people to freely and democratically decide the destiny of their own island racism? Of course not. What is racist is what the Turkish side supports: Discrimination and segregation based on the ethnicity of the Cypriot people.

Is the "middle ground" between these two positions the correct thing to support? Middle Ground in this case would mean some human rights violations, some ethnic cleansing, some segregation, some system that is not truly democratic ... is this "middle ground" the one you want?

Personally I don't want to be anywhere near the racist demands of the Turkish side. I want to be as far away from them as possible. So yes, there are 2 extremes here: On one side those who support segregation, ethnic cleansing, human rights violations and undemocratic systems, and on the the other extreme those who support human rights for all, democracy, and equality of all Cypriots without racist discrimination.

What is the "middle ground" between these two positions? "Moderate racist"? "Partial human rights supporter"? "Half Democrat"? Sorry mate, but it is quite pathetic to be in the "middle ground" when it comes to freedom, human rights and democracy.

As far as "Cyprus is Greek" goes, that is my personal opinion. As I said many times what Cyprus is and where Cyprus should belong should be a decision that only the Cypriot people, one person one vote, can make, freely and democratically without force and blackmail. I am willing to accept and fully support whatever the free and democratic decision of the Cypriot people will be. Those who don't are the traitors who don't mind to collaborate with foreign Imperialists in order to impose on the Cypriot people their will by force.

P.S My post is just about your accusation against me and has nothing to do with Tim. I wrote to Tim a PM long time ago apologizing for insulting him, even though he attacked me first (a fact recorded clearly in the forum). Unfortunately he didn't reciprocate.

If I am attacked then I reserve my right to respond in kind. Usually I have to be attacked several times before I respond.

[YFred]

Piratis even your example is extreme. In your example if the lower price offered was say 700 and they agreed on 750 then what's wrong with that. The seller has the choice of selling at that price or waiting for a better one. Seller may not get a better price and may even lose the buyer who in the meantime may find another seller with a price of 700.

You can't use market forces to prove middle ground in politics.

Try selling your house for 80000 in Detroit when in some neighbourhoods they are going for a 1000.

The middle ground in politics is another matter. This has not applied in Greece/Turkey either as far oil is concerned and for 40 years neither has been able to get to it. Look at Greece's economy today. How much longer will she insist that all the oil is hers and Turkey has no right to it.

Get off your high horse; GCs are not 100% right, not even 50% right from the way we see it. Current situation is that you started it and Turkey finished it, and unfortunately the TC got stuck between two very stubborn mules pulling in different directions. Needless to say the TCs have paid and are paying the price of the roc stupidity. The Turks are however are sitting pretty no problems with politics or trade or even the accession to eu which they will get in the timescale agreed.


Do you recognise yoursef in which mule you are.

[CopperLine]

What I support is democracy, human rights for every singe Cypriot, and freedom to Cyprus so the Cypriot people can democratically choose what they want for their own island. I say no to ethnic cleansing, no to segregation and racist discrimination.

Maybe the problem lies in what you don't say, Piratis. You say here that you support human rights for Cypriots, but omit to say whether you support human rights for non-Cypriots, including Turks. If you'd said that you supported universal human rights things would be clear; but as it is you limit your support to Cypriot human rights which is usually then qualified by you saying that the will of the majority must be followed. A standard view of universal human rights - one you seem to disagree with - is that a majority view, however democratic, must not and cannot undermine those basic universal human rights.

In sum, do you support universal human rights which includes Turks as well ? Yes or no ?

[Piratis]

What I support is democracy, human rights for every singe Cypriot, and freedom to Cyprus so the Cypriot people can democratically choose what they want for their own island. I say no to ethnic cleansing, no to segregation and racist discrimination.

Maybe the problem lies in what you don't say, Piratis. You say here that you support human rights for Cypriots, but omit to say whether you support human rights for non-Cypriots, including Turks. If you'd said that you supported universal human rights things would be clear; but as it is you limit your support to Cypriot human rights which is usually then qualified by you saying that the will of the majority must be followed. A standard view of universal human rights - one you seem to disagree with - is that a majority view, however democratic, must not and cannot undermine those basic universal human rights.

In sum, do you support universal human rights which includes Turks as well ? Yes or no ?

Of course I support the human rights of all universally!

Why are you asking about the Turks? Do I support for Cyprus to invade Turkey and violate the human rights of the Turks?

It is Turkey which invaded our island and violates our rights with her soldiers and her settlers who are illegally occupying our lands and prevent us from returning to them.