Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

When you see how much EU aid and subsidies are absorbed in Thrace then you will realise that the people there would be ready to call themselves anything the EU wanted.

All you have to do is give them the choice to call themselves any way they like and educate themselves in any way they see fit. Restricting it in any way can never be justified under any circumstances.

[Nikitas]

All educational material and teachers come from Turkey. Which leads to a major problem for the people who want to study in Greek universities and do not have the required language skills. The situation is not at all similar to Cyprus. The moslem community in Greece is being suckered into becoming misfits by the policies actively being promoted by the Turkish consulate of Komotini. The younger generation is not so amenable to bullshit however, they would rather have the opportunity to learn an official EU language and attend univerisities at their doorstep available for free. A walk around the cafeterias of Xanthi, Komotini and Didymotixo can be very informative.

[YFred]

All educational material and teachers come from Turkey. Which leads to a major problem for the people who want to study in Greek universities and do not have the required language skills. The situation is not at all similar to Cyprus. The moslem community in Greece is being suckered into becoming misfits by the policies actively being promoted by the Turkish consulate of Komotini. The younger generation is not so amenable to bullshit however, they would rather have the opportunity to learn an official EU language and attend univerisities at their doorstep available for free. A walk around the cafeterias of Xanthi, Komotini and Didymotixo can be very informative.

I am not arguing that point. My children in London cannot speak a word in Turkish, that was my choice and people there must be given a choice to do as they wish otherwise problems begin like you describe and before you know it it turns more nasty.

[Piratis]

Piratis told us that the intercommunal conflict started in 1958. It did not start then of course, simply there was another escalation at the time.

The serious conflict that was to mark the future events started in December 1963 when we tried to undermine the agreements we signed only three years ago and when TMT went full out for partition. There was a general mistrust at the time because of the simple fact that each nationalist part had a secret agenda which of course was very transparent. Many times I blamed the GC for this because we never believed in the Independent Cyprus and tried to use it as a stepping stone for enosis. Had we not tried to bring enosis from the back door, after the failure of the EOKA armed struggle, we could have the average TC fighting on the side of the Republic for the Republic, rather than for TMT. We targeted the simple, ordinary TC that was an easy target thus forcing TC's to look for protection to TMT and the Turkish army.

We failed miserably and lost half of our country and now the people responsible for this disaster are ready to sell the other half with their maximalist asks.

History is a chain of events. What happened in the 60s was a continuation of what happened in the 50s when the conflict was initiated.

1958 was not merely "another escalation". It was the begging of inter-communal conflict. Before that we had EOKA, we had TMT, we had the TC missionaries working for the British, but what we didn't have are people being attacked and murdered or have their homes and shops burned down just because of their ethnic group.

There is a difference between a TC missionary of the British attacking an EOKA fighter (and vice versa) and having ordinary people being attacked and murdered en mass just because of their ethnicity. So don't pretend that you can not understand this difference. If there was no inter-communal conflict in 1958, then there was never inter-communal conflict.

In fact 1958 was one of the years with the most casualties. Far more than some other years that TCs like to include as years of inter-communal conflict, e.g. 1968-1974. So how can you include those years as being years of conflict and yet exclude 1958?

As always you are full of shit and you are playing the game of the Turkish propaganda. The Turks want to erase from history 1958 because it proves their guilt of initiating the conflict. We will not let them or you to do this. If you believe that the inter-communal conflict is something relevant we need to remember, then we will remember the whole of it, right from the beginning when TCs started it.

[Piratis]

I disagree with you that conflict was inevitable simply because the Cypriot people wanted their freedom as it happened with every other Greek island and territory.

Muslim/Turkish minorities were created in most Christian territories which were under Ottoman rule. This didn't stop all the other Greek islands to be liberated from foreign rule and unite with mainland Greece, as it was their right. Rhodes for example, which also has a Muslim minority, united with Greece in 1948 after being Liberated from Italian Colonial rule, and not a single nose broke over this.

What brought conflict to Cyprus was not our legitimate choice, but the interests of the Imperialists who used their usual divide and rule tactics to turn the Muslim minority against the majority of the population. As I said these kind of practices were used by the British in many other parts of the world even when those other parts where fighting for independence.

As far as your second point goes, it is only the TCs in here who demand that GCs should be collectively punished and made to "pay the price" for everything that happened in the past. Ask Bir.
Personally I never supported such racist and unfair practices.

And the excuse that those TCs use to demand the indiscriminate collective punishment of all GCs is that supposedly GCs started the inter-communal conflict. With this thread I showed that this was not the case. The conflict was part of the partition plan and it was initiated by TCs with the aim to later use the results of the conflict as an excuse for partition - and this is exactly what they do, even until today.

The Cypriots didn't simply want freedom or independence. The GC leadership wanted union with another state.

If this goal was legitimate or not, is not that important. As I said, in my opinion it was about so legitimate as the creation of enclaves by TCs, or as a possible independence of Muslim regions in Western Thrace.

Important is, that this goal was something that created worries to TCs, and with good reasons. Being a minority in states of our region is never an easy thing, and never a guarantee for survival, just look at the fate of Greeks/Armenians or Kurds in Turkey, Muslims in Greece, Muslims in Bulgaria, and generally minorities in Yugoslavia. So, as long as the TCs had the power to react, they would.

As for the comparison to Rhodes: I don't know if the percentage of Muslims there was so high as in Cyprus. But more importantly, they probably didn't feel strong enough to react, and Turkey also not.

But generally, what happened to Cyprus was similar with what happened to Greece/Turkey, as a consequence of nationalism: previously mixed regions were separated through various stages into ethnically "clean" ones, in order to build nation-states. We can't understand the Cyprus question, if we don't look at what happened elsewhere and find the common pattern. The ethnicity of the person who fired the first shot, is not really such a central question.

Greece was not "another state" since Cyprus was not a state at that time but just a Greek island which was a British Colony.

The first Greek state included only southern Greece and a few islands. The rest territories and islands were gradually liberated and united with the already established state. We were not asking for anything different.

As I already said I didn't expect from TCs to support enosis. They had the right to support another legitimate option for the decolonization of Cyprus - e.g. independence. But they didn't support this. They didn't even support what you talk about in your post about Turkish enclaves on the lands with TC majority. What they supported was the annihilation of the majority of Cypriots from half of Cyprus in order for them to establish a Turkish state on land stolen from us. They had no right whatsoever for such thing and this is why they created the inter-communal conflict in order to create the conditions that would allow the forceful partition of Cyprus.

[BirKibrisli]

Dear Afroasiatis,

I would like to belatedly welcome you to our little Forum. I know you've been around for a while but only started to venture into the Cyprus Problem area recently...Because you seem to be a nice,sensible,thinking person,I'd like to spell out the unwritten rules of CF...The written ones you can find elsewhere....

1...You must believe that the Jews got it wrong...It was the Greeks who were God's gift to humanity!

2...Every land ever touched by Greeks shall forever remain Greek no matter who lived there before,and no matter who came to live there after!

3...There is only one civilised people in the whole world,the rest are barbarians to one degree or another,the worse being the Turkish people...

4...The Turkish Cypriots are to be regarded as Ottoman remnants at best,and Turks at the very worst...They are responsible for all the evil perpetrated by their ancestors,going back to 1571...

5...The Greek Cypriots are the God annointed masters of Cyprus whose destiny was rudely interrupted by the Turks-TCs...The latter must pay the price,and they must forever be made to feel third or forth class citizens in Cyprus...

6...ENOSIS with Greece was the divine right of the GCs,and their struggle for it was just and legitimate...The TC attempts to resist Enosis was an blasphemous act of treachery and the Turkish invasion in 74 was a gross act of territorial expansionism!

7...The GCs had every moral and divine right to try to achieve ENOSIS in any way concievable,including killing innocent women and children,massacring and ethnic cleansing of tens of thousands of TCs during 1963-67 period,and stealing their legitimate rights in the RoC Constitution...

8...The struggle to achieve complete dominance of the Ottoman remnants must and will continue,till the end of time or the lost drop of TC and GC blood,whichever comes first....Time does not stand still,and the balance of power will eventually change to allow the NGC one final push to throw the said Otoman remnants and their Turkish ally into the sea,off Kyrenia...

9...Anybody who does not believe that the Cyprus Problem started in 1958 with the killing of innocent GCs,and it was an evil design by the TCs to help Turkey's expansionism and to gain over GC losses is a traitor and Turkish arse licker,and will be driven out of this forum crying and screaming,by those who aim to turn Cyprus into a truly democratic country where human rights and the rule of law would reign supreme...


There are plenty of other unwritten laws,dear Afroasiatis,but these will be enough to set you on the right road to forum popularity and respect...

Enjoy your stay,however brief it might prove to be...

[repulsewarrior]

who cares who started first .................

have a look what UN says............rest of it bull shit !!!!!!!!!


“Following the elections, Greek Cypriot leader Mr. [Demetris] Christofias and new Turkish Cypriot leader Mr. [Dervis] Eroglu wrote to me, affirming their commitment to continuing with the talks,” he tells the Security Council, referring to the two-year-old negotiations aimed at establishing agreement on a bi-zonal, bi-communal federation with a Federal Government and Turkish Cypriot and Greek Cypriot Constituent States with equal status.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?N ... yprus&Cr1=

...three governing bodies, Bicommunal because we represent ourselves in two ways, united as Individuals, and as Persons sustaining a distinctive Identity.

...please, read my manifesto.

[denizaksulu]

Dear Afroasiatis,

I would like to belatedly welcome you to our little Forum. I know you've been around for a while but only started to venture into the Cyprus Problem area recently...Because you seem to be a nice,sensible,thinking person,I'd like to spell out the unwritten rules of CF...The written ones you can find elsewhere....

1...You must believe that the Jews got it wrong...It was the Greeks who were God's gift to humanity!

2...Every land ever touched by Greeks shall forever remain Greek no matter who lived there before,and no matter who came to live there after!

3...There is only one civilised people in the whole world,the rest are barbarians to one degree or another,the worse being the Turkish people...

4...The Turkish Cypriots are to be regarded as Ottoman remnants at best,and Turks at the very worst...They are responsible for all the evil perpetrated by their ancestors,going back to 1571...

5...The Greek Cypriots are the God annointed masters of Cyprus whose destiny was rudely interrupted by the Turks-TCs...The latter must pay the price,and they must forever be made to feel third or forth class citizens in Cyprus...

6...ENOSIS with Greece was the divine right of the GCs,and their struggle for it was just and legitimate...The TC attempts to resist Enosis was an blasphemous act of treachery and the Turkish invasion in 74 was a gross act of territorial expansionism!

7...The GCs had every moral and divine right to try to achieve ENOSIS in any way concievable,including killing innocent women and children,massacring and ethnic cleansing of tens of thousands of TCs during 1963-67 period,and stealing their legitimate rights in the RoC Constitution...

8...The struggle to achieve complete dominance of the Ottoman remnants must and will continue,till the end of time or the lost drop of TC and GC blood,whichever comes first....Time does not stand still,and the balance of power will eventually change to allow the NGC one final push to throw the said Otoman remnants and their Turkish ally into the sea,off Kyrenia...

9...Anybody who does not believe that the Cyprus Problem started in 1958 with the killing of innocent GCs,and it was an evil design by the TCs to help Turkey's expansionism and to gain over GC losses is a traitor and Turkish arse licker,and will be driven out of this forum crying and screaming,by those who aim to turn Cyprus into a truly democratic country where human rights and the rule of law would reign supreme...


There are plenty of other unwritten laws,dear Afroasiatis,but these will be enough to set you on the right road to forum popularity and respect...

Enjoy your stay,however brief it might prove to be...

...and not a lot of people know that Bir.

[B25]

Dear Afroasiatis,

I would like to belatedly welcome you to our little Forum. I know you've been around for a while but only started to venture into the Cyprus Problem area recently...Because you seem to be a nice,sensible,thinking person,I'd like to spell out the unwritten rules of CF...The written ones you can find elsewhere....

1...You must believe that the Jews got it wrong...It was the Greeks who were God's gift to humanity!

2...Every land ever touched by Greeks shall forever remain Greek no matter who lived there before,and no matter who came to live there after!

3...There is only one civilised people in the whole world,the rest are barbarians to one degree or another,the worse being the Turkish people...

4...The Turkish Cypriots are to be regarded as Ottoman remnants at best,and Turks at the very worst...They are responsible for all the evil perpetrated by their ancestors,going back to 1571...

5...The Greek Cypriots are the God annointed masters of Cyprus whose destiny was rudely interrupted by the Turks-TCs...The latter must pay the price,and they must forever be made to feel third or forth class citizens in Cyprus...

6...ENOSIS with Greece was the divine right of the GCs,and their struggle for it was just and legitimate...The TC attempts to resist Enosis was an blasphemous act of treachery and the Turkish invasion in 74 was a gross act of territorial expansionism!

7...The GCs had every moral and divine right to try to achieve ENOSIS in any way concievable,including killing innocent women and children,massacring and ethnic cleansing of tens of thousands of TCs during 1963-67 period,and stealing their legitimate rights in the RoC Constitution...

8...The struggle to achieve complete dominance of the Ottoman remnants must and will continue,till the end of time or the lost drop of TC and GC blood,whichever comes first....Time does not stand still,and the balance of power will eventually change to allow the NGC one final push to throw the said Otoman remnants and their Turkish ally into the sea,off Kyrenia...

9...Anybody who does not believe that the Cyprus Problem started in 1958 with the killing of innocent GCs,and it was an evil design by the TCs to help Turkey's expansionism and to gain over GC losses is a traitor and Turkish arse licker,and will be driven out of this forum crying and screaming,by those who aim to turn Cyprus into a truly democratic country where human rights and the rule of law would reign supreme...


There are plenty of other unwritten laws,dear Afroasiatis,but these will be enough to set you on the right road to forum popularity and respect...

Enjoy your stay,however brief it might prove to be...

Well, I am shocked, I am in total agreement with your points 1-9. And so eloquently put.

Thanks for spelling it out to even simpletons like me. At least we now know whats what.

As for Afro, you seem to have taken a liking to him/her due to the bias. Afro sings the Banana song and suddenly you want to have his/her children. Have fun.

[denizaksulu]

I spent last night re-reading the Hansard report of the violence in 1931 and the rioting and the burning down of the Governors house.
Flippin heck!!! All because a few bishops resigned their post.
I dont think for one day that the Turkish Cypriots were rubbing their hands with glee. This was a clear sign to come and visit our community too. As we say in Turkish, 'Görünen köy kılavuz istemez'.

Also , what comes to mind was the few incidents of an internecine nature which was not elaborated on. Why does the honorable member of this forum list these 'incidents' between the Christian and moslem population of Cyprus. Were these a 'slip of the tongue' perhaps? Lets have it Piratis. What were you talking about?