Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

Let's not take things out of context. It isn't right.

I strongly believe that EOKA's struggle for self determination is both justified and right, but I certainly doubt that any of the fallen would've had our present state of affairs in their mind. Our nation is now torn, and under threat from Turkey.

Even they, would've preferred for Cyprus to remain a British Colony for a few more years than be dealt the bogus Zurich Agreement (no country in their right mind would have such a constitution) and as a consequence be under occupation and divided for 36 years.

Eventually, self determination would've happened regardless.

I think we can say that EOKA's struggle was justified, under the principle of self-determination. After all, it was the wish of the great majority of the island's population.

Of course with the same principle, we can say that creation of turkish enclaves was justified too. And at least for the ones which had access to sea, like Mansoura-Kokkina, even the union with Turkey would be justified. As long as the majority of their population wanted it so. In a similar way, Muslims in Rodopi in Greece, where they are in the majority, should have the right to declare their independence, if they want so.



But all this is not really that relevant. Important is not what is justified, but what it's correct. And the struggle of GCs for Enosi, especially when carried out with violent means, would inevitably lead to inter-communal conflict sooner or later, and so to a Zurich-type constitution and eventually to partition. Since it was a goal that couldn't get accepted by TCs. On the other hand, a common struggle for independence would have the chances of avoiding inter-communal conflicts and partition.

I seriously doubt that. Look at the Kurds in Turkey now. They helped in the Turkish war of independence and they were summarily crushed after their revolt almost immediately after the Republic. It still goes on doesnt it?

[denizaksulu]

We are overlooking a simple matter of miliary tactics with real consequences. The EOKA structure simply could not handle an urban campaign in Cyprus of the 50s. Inciting TC violence in the cities put the conflict beyond the reach of EOKA, it proved to the beleagured GC population suffering the TC mob attacks that EOKA could not defend them. The arming of TCs while disarming the GCs was part of the ploy and it worked. By 1959 it was clear that EOKA could not deal with the problem.

For those that want to look up the disarming of the GCs, refer to the order of 1956 obliging ALL arms, including air guns to be surrendered to the authorities. ALso see the prosecutions of the time, in which chief prosecutor was Rauf Denktash and almost all defendands were GCs. One defendant TC accused of illegal arms possession, sergeant Tuna, managed to escape from custody and secretly traveled to Turkey, no doubt as a stowaway in a railway carriage!

You are wrong here Nikitas. I remember the collection of all arms when we lived in Kyrenia. They were stored in the police station next to the castle. All Turkish Cypriots also had to hand in their guns too. My father had brought from the UK a new shotgun and I remember my uncle oiling it wrapping it up and handing it in. . I think the year was 1956. I also remember picking it up too when they were returned to their original owners. The same happened to all my family members in Kophinou, Civisil and Anglsisidhes. Facts should not be distorted to suit your argument.

Regards.

[Bananiot]

In my village, all hunting rifles were collected by EOKA people and were returned after 1960.

[Afroasiatis]

Let's not take things out of context. It isn't right.

I strongly believe that EOKA's struggle for self determination is both justified and right, but I certainly doubt that any of the fallen would've had our present state of affairs in their mind. Our nation is now torn, and under threat from Turkey.

Even they, would've preferred for Cyprus to remain a British Colony for a few more years than be dealt the bogus Zurich Agreement (no country in their right mind would have such a constitution) and as a consequence be under occupation and divided for 36 years.

Eventually, self determination would've happened regardless.

I think we can say that EOKA's struggle was justified, under the principle of self-determination. After all, it was the wish of the great majority of the island's population.

Of course with the same principle, we can say that creation of turkish enclaves was justified too. And at least for the ones which had access to sea, like Mansoura-Kokkina, even the union with Turkey would be justified. As long as the majority of their population wanted it so. In a similar way, Muslims in Rodopi in Greece, where they are in the majority, should have the right to declare their independence, if they want so.



But all this is not really that relevant. Important is not what is justified, but what it's correct. And the struggle of GCs for Enosi, especially when carried out with violent means, would inevitably lead to inter-communal conflict sooner or later, and so to a Zurich-type constitution and eventually to partition. Since it was a goal that couldn't get accepted by TCs. On the other hand, a common struggle for independence would have the chances of avoiding inter-communal conflicts and partition.

I seriously doubt that. Look at the Kurds in Turkey now. They helped in the Turkish war of independence and they were summarily crushed after their revolt almost immediately after the Republic. It still goes on doesnt it?

That's why I said "would have the chances". Because it's not sure.

The kurdish problem is because what followed the Turkish war of independence was a turkish nationalist state, i.e. there was no place for a kurdish identity there. So, again the problem is nationalism.

The question in Cyprus would be to fight against colonialism under a common cypriot identity, without leaving greek or turkish nationalism interfering. And that should be the job of the internationalist Left. AKEL was unfortunately too coward or short-sighted to take this role.

[Viewpoint]

Bananiot thinks he told us something new. Here is a thread I started in 2007 showing how the troubles in the 50s started. This includes the divide and rule practices of the British who hired TC missionaries to attack EOKA.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/post-231865.html

In this thread I concentrated on the inter-communal conflict, which started with the coordinated attacks of TCs against innocent and unarmed GCs on the 7th of June. This was an organized attack against the general GC public planned in Turkey, who incited the TCs to murder GCs and start a civil war with broadcasts from Turkey.

Bananiot has admitted that he would prefer Cyprus to be a British colony. Some nationalism is needed for people in order to be able to unite and serve their common interests against Imperialists and Colonialists. If it wasn't for Nationalism today we wouldn't have democratic nation states, but instead Empires ruling over and exploiting our people as it used to be the case before the rise of Nationalism.

You were the ones attacking everyone else because you wanted to turn Cyprus into a greek island.

[YFred]

Let's not take things out of context. It isn't right.

I strongly believe that EOKA's struggle for self determination is both justified and right, but I certainly doubt that any of the fallen would've had our present state of affairs in their mind. Our nation is now torn, and under threat from Turkey.

Even they, would've preferred for Cyprus to remain a British Colony for a few more years than be dealt the bogus Zurich Agreement (no country in their right mind would have such a constitution) and as a consequence be under occupation and divided for 36 years.

Eventually, self determination would've happened regardless.

I think we can say that EOKA's struggle was justified, under the principle of self-determination. After all, it was the wish of the great majority of the island's population.

Of course with the same principle, we can say that creation of turkish enclaves was justified too. And at least for the ones which had access to sea, like Mansoura-Kokkina, even the union with Turkey would be justified. As long as the majority of their population wanted it so. In a similar way, Muslims in Rodopi in Greece, where they are in the majority, should have the right to declare their independence, if they want so.



But all this is not really that relevant. Important is not what is justified, but what it's correct. And the struggle of GCs for Enosi, especially when carried out with violent means, would inevitably lead to inter-communal conflict sooner or later, and so to a Zurich-type constitution and eventually to partition. Since it was a goal that couldn't get accepted by TCs. On the other hand, a common struggle for independence would have the chances of avoiding inter-communal conflicts and partition.

I seriously doubt that. Look at the Kurds in Turkey now. They helped in the Turkish war of independence and they were summarily crushed after their revolt almost immediately after the Republic. It still goes on doesnt it?

That's why I said "would have the chances". Because it's not sure.

The kurdish problem is because what followed the Turkish war of independence was a turkish nationalist state, i.e. there was no place for a kurdish identity there. So, again the problem is nationalism.

The question in Cyprus would be to fight against colonialism under a common cypriot identity, without leaving greek or turkish nationalism interfering. And that should be the job of the internationalist Left. AKEL was unfortunately too coward or short-sighted to take this role.

Eoka was armed by Greece. Akel did not have a chance to stand up to eoka. Eoka hated leftist as much as turks. Nor did leftist TCs stand up to TMT. The ones that did were killed.

Lets not kid ourselves. There was nothing anyone could do at the time. Big Daddy USA and Turkey and Greece wanted it that way.

[B25]

Bananiot thinks he told us something new. Here is a thread I started in 2007 showing how the troubles in the 50s started. This includes the divide and rule practices of the British who hired TC missionaries to attack EOKA.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/post-231865.html

In this thread I concentrated on the inter-communal conflict, which started with the coordinated attacks of TCs against innocent and unarmed GCs on the 7th of June. This was an organized attack against the general GC public planned in Turkey, who incited the TCs to murder GCs and start a civil war with broadcasts from Turkey.

Bananiot has admitted that he would prefer Cyprus to be a British colony. Some nationalism is needed for people in order to be able to unite and serve their common interests against Imperialists and Colonialists. If it wasn't for Nationalism today we wouldn't have democratic nation states, but instead Empires ruling over and exploiting our people as it used to be the case before the rise of Nationalism.

You were the ones attacking everyone else because you wanted to turn Cyprus into a greek island.

Turn it into a Greek island??? Wrong, it was never anything else. Now Fuck Off Turk!

[YFred]

Bananiot thinks he told us something new. Here is a thread I started in 2007 showing how the troubles in the 50s started. This includes the divide and rule practices of the British who hired TC missionaries to attack EOKA.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/post-231865.html

In this thread I concentrated on the inter-communal conflict, which started with the coordinated attacks of TCs against innocent and unarmed GCs on the 7th of June. This was an organized attack against the general GC public planned in Turkey, who incited the TCs to murder GCs and start a civil war with broadcasts from Turkey.

Bananiot has admitted that he would prefer Cyprus to be a British colony. Some nationalism is needed for people in order to be able to unite and serve their common interests against Imperialists and Colonialists. If it wasn't for Nationalism today we wouldn't have democratic nation states, but instead Empires ruling over and exploiting our people as it used to be the case before the rise of Nationalism.

You were the ones attacking everyone else because you wanted to turn Cyprus into a greek island.

Turn it into a Greek island??? Wrong, it was never anything else. Now Fuck Off Turk!

What? even furkin Greece was not greek when under the Otto boys. Thats rather a harsh statement isn't it old boy?

Go do some line dancing will you.

[Viewpoint]

Bananiot thinks he told us something new. Here is a thread I started in 2007 showing how the troubles in the 50s started. This includes the divide and rule practices of the British who hired TC missionaries to attack EOKA.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/post-231865.html

In this thread I concentrated on the inter-communal conflict, which started with the coordinated attacks of TCs against innocent and unarmed GCs on the 7th of June. This was an organized attack against the general GC public planned in Turkey, who incited the TCs to murder GCs and start a civil war with broadcasts from Turkey.

Bananiot has admitted that he would prefer Cyprus to be a British colony. Some nationalism is needed for people in order to be able to unite and serve their common interests against Imperialists and Colonialists. If it wasn't for Nationalism today we wouldn't have democratic nation states, but instead Empires ruling over and exploiting our people as it used to be the case before the rise of Nationalism.

You were the ones attacking everyone else because you wanted to turn Cyprus into a greek island.

Turn it into a Greek island??? Wrong, it was never anything else. Now Fuck Off Turk!

Now you fuck off you bastardized Greek this is a Cypriot island.

[Oracle]

Let's not take things out of context. It isn't right.

I strongly believe that EOKA's struggle for self determination is both justified and right, but I certainly doubt that any of the fallen would've had our present state of affairs in their mind. Our nation is now torn, and under threat from Turkey.

Even they, would've preferred for Cyprus to remain a British Colony for a few more years than be dealt the bogus Zurich Agreement (no country in their right mind would have such a constitution) and as a consequence be under occupation and divided for 36 years.

Eventually, self determination would've happened regardless.

I think we can say that EOKA's struggle was justified, under the principle of self-determination. After all, it was the wish of the great majority of the island's population.

Of course with the same principle, we can say that creation of turkish enclaves was justified too. And at least for the ones which had access to sea, like Mansoura-Kokkina, even the union with Turkey would be justified. As long as the majority of their population wanted it so. In a similar way, Muslims in Rodopi in Greece, where they are in the majority, should have the right to declare their independence, if they want so.



But all this is not really that relevant. Important is not what is justified, but what it's correct. And the struggle of GCs for Enosi, especially when carried out with violent means, would inevitably lead to inter-communal conflict sooner or later, and so to a Zurich-type constitution and eventually to partition. Since it was a goal that couldn't get accepted by TCs. On the other hand, a common struggle for independence would have the chances of avoiding inter-communal conflicts and partition.

I seriously doubt that. Look at the Kurds in Turkey now. They helped in the Turkish war of independence and they were summarily crushed after their revolt almost immediately after the Republic. It still goes on doesnt it?

So, you're saying we should never trust the Turk-TCs?