Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

Was it not you who were saying that GC soldiers had gone to Serbia for training? How nice to know that we are good friends with serbians then.

No, you must've been assuming again! I mentioned that two groups of the CNG had gone to Siberia ...to train for Russian equipment that were due to arrive.

Please tell me a nationalist group that has not turned to expansionism. But spare me the cheekykittens, they don't count.

Many countries in the world have not attacked or bothered anyone, yet they have their annual military and civilian parades, etc.

Really Nationalism and fascism go hand in hand. One leads to another then to expansionism. Power corrupts, you should know that. They are power and weapon crazy not unlike you, what?

No they don’t! Nationalism is a misused word and fascism is something totally irrelevant!

Look, what words really mean and how fools interpret them is a debate in its own right!

But anyway, you’re too thick to be discussing anything with me so go back to telling Kikapu that he’s gay like you’re used to.

What?

I say that's rather strong words coming from a Neanderthal cheekykitten. What?

Let’s take Mussolini, how did he start and how did he end up attacking Greece. Not that it was a bad thing and all that, what?

Why do I need to tell Chickopoof that he is, he surely already knows he belongs to your and DT's club. You bunch of poofders.

Its pouffters YMallaka old chap, what?

That's all we needed, fuckin Cuntus is back. Shit, bums against the wall boys at the double.

Why, are you in the vicinity old chap, what?

I am not in the habit of controlling where anybody goes. There I was posting in the forum and suddenly you appeared from nowhere. Not trusting you closet gay chappies, us straight men have an involuntary reaction to your presence, what?
You rabid arse licker you.

Methinks he doth protest too much, old chap, what?

YQueer is obviously in self-denial about his sexual inclinations. Feel free to admit your homosexuality, we don't mind old chap, what? We will still to take the piss out of you and you ignorance!

Ai, which furkin planet are you from? Uranus?

You are a bunch of poofders going around accusing people of being poofs. We have established that only poofs do this, are you with me so far? I would,'t want you to fall behind or anything.

[Piratis]

Bananiot thinks he told us something new. Here is a thread I started in 2007 showing how the troubles in the 50s started. This includes the divide and rule practices of the British who hired TC missionaries to attack EOKA.

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/post-231865.html

In this thread I concentrated on the inter-communal conflict, which started with the coordinated attacks of TCs against innocent and unarmed GCs on the 7th of June. This was an organized attack against the general GC public planned in Turkey, who incited the TCs to murder GCs and start a civil war with broadcasts from Turkey.

Bananiot has admitted that he would prefer Cyprus to be a British colony. Some nationalism is needed for people in order to be able to unite and serve their common interests against Imperialists and Colonialists. If it wasn't for Nationalism today we wouldn't have democratic nation states, but instead Empires ruling over and exploiting our people as it used to be the case before the rise of Nationalism.

[Oracle]

Mr-from-NG, the book is only in Greek I am afraid, but you are right, it is a most interesting and informative book.

Just to come back to Piratis once again, not in the vain hope of installing some sanity into this person, but for the benefit of all forumers, I would like to stress a simple fact that really shouldn't be needing any stressing. The intercommunal strife did not start just like that, as the late Tommy Cooper would say. It was brewing, long before it started, thanks to the efforts of the sick nationalists of both sides. Here is another example:

On April 23 1956, EOKA members shot a GC policeman next to the Seray in Nicosia. A TC policeman (named Nihat Pacit) went after them and they shot him dead. The perpetrators were arrested on the spot by Turkish Cypriot women, would you believe. You can imagine what followed. The TC mob went on a rampage stoning and setting alight GC shops next to the pandopoleio. This setting went on for the next two days and eventually, the old pandopoleio was left in the hands of the TC's and the GC's turned the ginaikopazaro into a pandopoleio and thus segregation was duly achieved to the delight of the nationalists. Two separate pandopoleia as far back as 1956 and some naive forumers still think that separation and partition happened in 1974.

Another event that produced arson attacks and beating in many parts of Cyprus, including Larnaca and Limasol, was the murdering of TC policeman Lisani Ahmed in Polis on May 23 1956. Who were the murderers is not conclusive. It could have been EOKA or even TMT to incite racial hatred. This was a method practiced by both sides during this "preparatory" period of the demise of Cyprus.

It's not nationalists who carried out such atrocities but self-interested individuals with their own agendas.

There is nothing wrong with Nationalism so don't use it as a repository for your sick collection of 'inconclusive' wrongdoings.

Here's a perfect example of Nationalism which could not be faulted by anyone and is the type of Nationalism which has healthily kept Cyprus alive (wounded, but alive) despite the sick individuals who try to upset the flow of Democracy:

I am a Scot.

I speak from the heart.
I know the value of friendship.
I drink my whisky from my great-grandfather's quaich.
I wear my clan tartan with pride.
I fight back tears at the skirl of the pipes.
I long to walk n the footseteps of my ancestors.

I was born and raised in Toronto,
but I have Scottish roots.

In 2010, I am going home!

www.cometoscotland.ca

[Bananiot]

Piratis, you are turning to lies now in the absence of concrete arguments. Can you inform the forumers in what context I said I would much rather prefer Cyprus to still be a British colony than in the mess it is now?

[Bananiot]

GR, who are the serbian muslims you are on about? And, are you also supporting that the Cretans are traitors? What is wrong with you? In 1955 the whole of Greek Cyprus wanted enosis and now you tell us that all Greek Cypriots were treacherous? Even those that hesitated only did so because they could see further than their nose and were duly branded as traitors (and executed!) by those you call traitors. Are you trying to drive everyone crazy here?

[Paphitis]

Let's not take things out of context. It isn't right.

I strongly believe that EOKA's struggle for self determination is both justified and right, but I certainly doubt that any of the fallen would've had our present state of affairs in their mind. Our nation is now torn, and under threat from Turkey.

Even they, would've preferred for Cyprus to remain a British Colony for a few more years than be dealt the bogus Zurich Agreement (no country in their right mind would have such a constitution) and as a consequence be under occupation and divided for 36 years.

Eventually, self determination would've happened regardless.

[YFred]

Let's not take things out of context. It isn't right.

I strongly believe that EOKA's struggle for self determination is both justified and right, but I certainly doubt that any of the fallen would've had our present state of affairs in their mind. Our nation is now torn, and under threat from Turkey.

Even they, would've preferred for Cyprus to remain a British Colony for a few more years than be dealt the bogus Zurich Agreement (no country in their right mind would have such a constitution) and as a consequence be under occupation and divided for 36 years.

Eventually, self determination would've happened regardless.

"Is" bafitis? Even with hindsight, you still think it is right. Which planet are you from.

[Afroasiatis]

Nationalism is actually a good thing in any country but unfortunately that’s NOT what happened in Cyprus, as Greek and Turkish Nationalisms DO NOT equate to Cypriot Nationalism!

There is a simple word to describe foreign nationalisms in countries… its called TREASON!

I agree that a cypriot nationalism, common among both GCs and TCs and directed both against colonialists and greek/turkish nationalisms, would be a good thing in the 50s.

However, for present conditions I think that even a cypriot nationalism would be a problem. I see nothing positive nationalism has to offer in the world we're living today, and I don't think it's even realistic.

[Afroasiatis]

Let's not take things out of context. It isn't right.

I strongly believe that EOKA's struggle for self determination is both justified and right, but I certainly doubt that any of the fallen would've had our present state of affairs in their mind. Our nation is now torn, and under threat from Turkey.

Even they, would've preferred for Cyprus to remain a British Colony for a few more years than be dealt the bogus Zurich Agreement (no country in their right mind would have such a constitution) and as a consequence be under occupation and divided for 36 years.

Eventually, self determination would've happened regardless.

I think we can say that EOKA's struggle was justified, under the principle of self-determination. After all, it was the wish of the great majority of the island's population.

Of course with the same principle, we can say that creation of turkish enclaves was justified too. And at least for the ones which had access to sea, like Mansoura-Kokkina, even the union with Turkey would be justified. As long as the majority of their population wanted it so. In a similar way, Muslims in Rodopi in Greece, where they are in the majority, should have the right to declare their independence, if they want so.



But all this is not really that relevant. Important is not what is justified, but what it's correct. And the struggle of GCs for Enosi, especially when carried out with violent means, would inevitably lead to inter-communal conflict sooner or later, and so to a Zurich-type constitution and eventually to partition. Since it was a goal that couldn't get accepted by TCs. On the other hand, a common struggle for independence would have the chances of avoiding inter-communal conflicts and partition.

[Nikitas]

We are overlooking a simple matter of miliary tactics with real consequences. The EOKA structure simply could not handle an urban campaign in Cyprus of the 50s. Inciting TC violence in the cities put the conflict beyond the reach of EOKA, it proved to the beleagured GC population suffering the TC mob attacks that EOKA could not defend them. The arming of TCs while disarming the GCs was part of the ploy and it worked. By 1959 it was clear that EOKA could not deal with the problem.

For those that want to look up the disarming of the GCs, refer to the order of 1956 obliging ALL arms, including air guns to be surrendered to the authorities. ALso see the prosecutions of the time, in which chief prosecutor was Rauf Denktash and almost all defendands were GCs. One defendant TC accused of illegal arms possession, sergeant Tuna, managed to escape from custody and secretly traveled to Turkey, no doubt as a stowaway in a railway carriage!