Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

When you look at their supprt for the Annan plan it would appear that the objectives quoted were willing to be compromised.

Quite the contrary. Annan plan gave to Turkey the control of the whole Cyprus. Exactly what they wanted.

[Acikgoz]

What utter nonsense.

[B25]

What utter nonsense.

You are wrong, thats EXACTLY what the Ankara Plan did and you can't stomach the idea that we didn't let you get away with it huh?

Next idiot please!

[Acikgoz]

OK boys explain your point of view that the "Annan plan gave to Turkey the control of the whole Cyprus", I've got a little time free this evening, gonna love to tear this one apart.

[Piratis]

When you look at their supprt for the Annan plan it would appear that the objectives quoted were willing to be compromised.

Quite the contrary. Annan plan gave to Turkey the control of the whole Cyprus. Exactly what they wanted.

I explained many times why this will be the case with a "solution" like Annan plan. Here it is once again:

Under such a "solution" the TCs (and Turkish Settlers) would get much more than any other minority, which is way way more than what they deserve. They will know fully well that they got all that not because they deserved such powers and privileges, but because of the brute force and blackmail applied by Turkey on the Cypriot people. Therefore the TC leadership will continue to be indebted to Turkey. The TC leaders who will have a veto on just about everything or even direct executive power will know that they got their position not because they were democratically elected to that position by the majority of the Cypriot people, but because of the undemocratic racist system that Turkey imposed in Cyprus. This means those people will serve the interests of Turkey first and above everything else.

This is what happens today and for the last several decades in the occupied areas. The pseudo presidents and pseudo prime-ministers know that they own their positions to Turkey. Without Turkey there wouldn't be any "president" or "prime-minister" positions for them to occupy. This is why they serve the Turkish interests first and above everything else. Today the "trnc" is nothing more than a pseudo puppet state of Turkey. If we accept something like the Annan plan, then Turkey, through her well known puppets, will get the power to control the whole of Cyprus, against the will of the vast majority of the Cypriot people.

[Acikgoz]

One, second, before I start, is this really what you believe justifies your statement?

Please we don't have to do this, we all say brash things in the heat of the moment.

[BirKibrisli]

One, second, before I start, is this really what you believe justifies your statement?

Please we don't have to do this, we all say brash things in the heat of the moment.

Don't hold back ,Acikgoz...I am going to bed now (it is very late in Oz)but will look up this thread first thing in the morning....

Shouldn't that be "One minute"!!!

[Nikitas]

Papadopoulos in his address summarized the GC views on how the Annan plan gave Turkey the upper hand pretty well. A few points- it negated RoC nation status. It reduced both sides to "communities" partners in a new state which would have a permanent presence of foreign troops, from nations with a say in the future of the state in the guise of "guarantees". The legalisation of settlers, giving them full citizenship and the right to vote and hold elected office in the north and the Federal government.

The statements of both Gul and Erdoghan after the Burgenstok talks reveal a lot about the attitude of Turkey. "We got what we wanted without returning an inch of territory or removing a single soldier", "under theplan they [GCs] lost their sovereignty".

The adaptation period leading to the full implementation of the plan contained some detailed military provisions. These provisions went down to minute details of hardware etc, and it guaranteed a Turkish military advantage throughout the transition period, which was very strange considering that this was supposed to be a "solution".

The Annan plan in short was the realisation of the "masters of the north partners in the south" idea.

[Acikgoz]

Statement: Annan plan gave to Turkey the control of the whole Cyprus

Arguments
1. TCs (and Turkish Settlers) would get much more than any other minority
- We started the independent island of Cyprus as equal partners, the Annan plan is a serious compromise from equal status (let’s say for argument they feel a priviledge)
2. they got all that not because they deserved such powers and privileges, but because of the brute force and blackmail applied by Turkey on the Cypriot people
- Brute force was what the TCs endured pre-1974, that was the method by which the GCs usurped the constitution (completely irrelevant)
3. TC leadership will continue to be indebted to Turkey
- All people eventually follow their own path, take a look at the numerous comments of people objecting to Greece influencing Cyprus (predominantly irrelevant)
4. TC leaders who will have a veto on just about everything or even direct executive power will know that they got their position not because they were democratically elected to that position by the majority of the Cypriot people, but because of the undemocratic racist system that Turkey imposed in Cyprus
- Same as point No. 3 (predominantly irrelevant)
5. This means those people will serve the interests of Turkey first and above everything else.
- People serve their own interests first and foremost (very poor conclusion)
6. The pseudo presidents and pseudo prime-ministers know that they own their positions to Turkey
- True and not true, many leaders were influenced by Turkey e.g. Talat’s win heavily backed by Turkey, counter, in the last election Eroglu was certainly not the man for Turkey (Turkey has influence but also willing to let TCs decide their fate)
7. Without Turkey there wouldn't be any "president" or "prime-minister" positions for them to occupy
- Without Turkey TCs would be at best hold a minority in Cyprus, at worst would no longer choose Cyprus as their home given the GC policies, without Turkey TCs would have been left to the dogs if GCs had their way – note the ongoing isolationist policies and fierce lobbying efforts to stop any commerce or cultural association with TCs etc. (not the fault of TCs their dependence on Turkey)
8. This is why they serve the Turkish interests first and above everything else
- An example to perhaps explain. If you are a student and you receive a scholarship from a college, are you indebted to that college for the rest of your life? No, you believe that the right thing was done for you and move on. You respect the college for seeing your potential but do not owe them your life or principles. (Kindness does not expect a reward)
9. Today the "trnc" is nothing more than a pseudo puppet state of Turkey
- TRNC is dependent on Turkey because of the policies of GCs, that does not mean it is its puppet. The association is conceivable but not direct.
10. If we accept something like the Annan plan, then Turkey, through her well known puppets, will get the power to control the whole of Cyprus, against the will of the vast majority of the Cypriot people.
- Same as point 8.

What you have described is at best a weak influence on the island of Cyprus for the politics of Turkey not control.

If the Annan plan was implemented TCs would have minimal need for Turkey as they would follow their own enterprises freely – what they have been denied for so long. Under the EU many directives are taken away from the govt anyway. Turkey would not be able to directly control the actions of TCs in anyway given the new constitution and under the auspices of the EU body.

Control is what you specifically stated, and what you have described is, due to a feeling of solidarity for the support after decades TC politicians would be willing to do Turkey’s bidding. That is not control - what a wishy washy argument.

[Acikgoz]

Papadopoulos in his address summarized the GC views on how the Annan plan gave Turkey the upper hand pretty well. A few points- it negated RoC nation status. It reduced both sides to "communities" partners in a new state which would have a permanent presence of foreign troops, from nations with a say in the future of the state in the guise of "guarantees". The legalisation of settlers, giving them full citizenship and the right to vote and hold elected office in the north and the Federal government.

The statements of both Gul and Erdoghan after the Burgenstok talks reveal a lot about the attitude of Turkey. "We got what we wanted without returning an inch of territory or removing a single soldier", "under theplan they [GCs] lost their sovereignty".

The adaptation period leading to the full implementation of the plan contained some detailed military provisions. These provisions went down to minute details of hardware etc, and it guaranteed a Turkish military advantage throughout the transition period, which was very strange considering that this was supposed to be a "solution".

The Annan plan in short was the realisation of the "masters of the north partners in the south" idea.

Foreign troops were to be reduced to a minute fraction that exists today, territory was indeed to be significantly conceeded to the southern community.

PapaD what a sinister evil little man, and you believe his b.s. lost much respect suddenly for you.

Masters of the North partners in the south, nice soundbite but absolute rubbish, just take a look at the system of governance proposed, GCs would have the upper hand no question.