Cyprus-Forum.com

[Acikgoz]

Interesting piece in Cyprus Mail.


Our View: Greco-Turkish ties moving ahead without Cyprus
TURKEY’S Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu called Tayyip Erdogan’s two-day visit to Greece a ‘revolution’. Commentators were quick to point out that there was an element of hyperbole in this, but even if the visit cannot be described as a ‘revolution’ it is certainly ground-breaking.
Never before has such a big Turkish delegation -10 minister and some 100 businessmen - visited Athens and never before has there been such a broad and far-reaching agenda. Many months of preparatory work between the technocrats of the two countries has gone into the visit, which is seen by both as a first step in new efforts to improve relations and co-operation.
Ten agreements promoting bilateral co-operation were to be signed, covering energy, investments, tourism and the environment. More importantly both sides are keen to reach some form of agreement on cuts in defence spending which takes a large share of their respective annual budgets. Putting relations on a new basis that promoted co-operation and built trust would facilitate the deal on defence cuts, which could be described as a ‘revolution’ without a hint of exaggeration.
The establishment of the Supreme Council of Co-operation, which met for the first time yesterday under the joint chairmanship of Erdogan and George Papandreou, would be looking at way of improving co-operation. Turkey has already set up a similar council with Russia and Syria and it is part of Davutoglu dogma for ‘zero problems with neighbours’. Regarding the visit, Davutoglu said that Turkey’s objective was not just the ‘minimisation of tension, but also the maximisation of fields of co-operation so that the logic of tension does not develop on either side.’
The Greek side was more restrained in its public rhetoric, and many commentators have sounded a note of caution, but actions speak lower than words and the elaborate preparations undertaken by Athens is an indication of how much the Papandreou government is investing in the proposed co-operation. A new climate and new era of co-operation between the old foes is a welcome development that would benefit the people of both countries.
Unfortunately, in Cyprus we remain in denial about the new Turkish thinking, politicians and analysts all insisting that nothing of substance has changed. They all dismiss Turkey’s initiatives as a communications game which is a grossly simplistic explanation of what is going on. President Christofias also adopts this view. While he expressed the wish that Greek-Turkish relations would improve, he said there could be real improvement only when the Cyprus problem was solved.
It may be true that a solution would help, but Erdogan’s visit has shown that neither Greece nor Turkey is prepared to wait for the two sides in Cyprus to reach a deal, in order to put bilateral relations on a sound basis. And they are quite right in moving ahead regardless of Cyprus, the politicians of which are incapable of accepting that times have changed.

[boomerang]

well well the cyprus mail up to its old tricks again...

Yesterday, as Erdogan and his wife Emine were flying to Athens, six Turkish F16s reportedly engaged in mock dog fights with Greek jets – a display of force by the military in Ankara that analysts said was aimed squarely at embarrassing the Turkish leader.

Prior to the visit, Egemen Bagis, the state minister handling Turkey's EU negotiations, took the extraordinary step of admitting in an interview with Greek public television that the air violations were "as much of a problem for the Turkish government as they are for Greece".

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010/may/14/turkish-pm-greece-arms-cuts

makes you wonder who is calling the shots on the cyprus negpotiations then doesn't it?

[Acikgoz]

So Boomie, that's what you got from it? Wood for the trees mate, wood for the trees.
While we just sit around blah blahing about the same things over and over, the rest of the world is moving on. Old enemies learn to set differences aside and cooperate for the benefit of everyone.

[Gasman]

This is reminding me of those situations where adults are told never to fall out 'over kids'. Two kids fall out with one another and run to their mums, then their mothers get involved and they fall out big time with one another.

Then the 2 kids make up and play happily together, leaving the mothers looking a bit daft and still not talking to each other!

This is big news worldwide at the moment. I do wonder how the very nationalistic GCs who constantly proclaim their Greekness and shout that Cyprus is Greek or that Cyprus is a Greek Island are really feeling right now - when they see their perceived motherland nation (Greece) that prompted the invasion of their island with their 'coup' kissing and making up with their perceived hated sworn enemy for life nation (Turkey) that invaded their island as a result of that coup?

Whilst the Cyprus problem remains unsolved and looks evermore likely to remain unsolved to their satisfaction?

[boomerang]

So Boomie, that's what you got from it? Wood for the trees mate, wood for the trees.
While we just sit around blah blahing about the same things over and over, the rest of the world is moving on. Old enemies learn to set differences aside and cooperate for the benefit of everyone.

hehehe...i see you didnt get the point...here it is again in simplified english...

no one is moving forward when you have 2 bodies of government within a country moving the opposite direction...now you get it?...

one body of government, lets say it's trying to move on and then the renegade part of the government moving in the opposite direction...one has to wonder who is in charge here doesn't it?...

now lets assume the turkish government wants a resolution to the çyprob...and obviuosly the other doesn't... who are we negotiating with the government or the renegade...now you see the point...

a legit question here....who is in charge in turkey?...or are we suppose as a foreign nation take sides?...

hmmm the turkish government or the renegade?...its a toughie...

[Acikgoz]

This comment I got, and in answer to the toughie question, there ain't no question, the government. The army cannot undermine positive foreign relations and big business when the outcome is win-win, whatever dogmatic light you choose to paint it in.

[boomerang]

This comment I got, and in answer to the toughie question, there ain't no question, the government. The army cannot undermine positive foreign relations and big business when the outcome is win-win, whatever dogmatic light you choose to paint it in.

yeah how do you explain then the army embarrasing the government?...in a normal democarcy the generals would have been sacked...
how come they get away with it, huh?...

[Acikgoz]

That is the issue Erdogan has been working on, the military now report directly to the govt.

[boomerang]

That is the issue Erdogan has been working on, the military now report directly to the govt.

well one would have thought on such a momentous occassion the government would shorten the leash, wouldn't you say?...but that wasn't case...not that wasn't the case but no heads rolled....any explanation on this?...

again this begs the question who is in charge here, unless of course we are playing good cop bad cop...

[Nikitas]

Quote:

"Prior to the visit, Egemen Bagis, the state minister handling Turkey's EU negotiations, took the extraordinary step of admitting in an interview with Greek public television that the air violations were "as much of a problem for the Turkish government as they are for Greece". "

Is this what the British call "adding insult to injury"? How are these violations a problem for Turkey? If the military report to the government why not give instructions to stop them?

Why piss off your neighbors with a unilateral move like NAVTEX 100/10 by which Turkey assumes responsibility for anti terrorist naval actions (!!!) IN THE WHOLE OF THE AEGEAN INCLUDING THE PORT OF PIRAEUS!

The NAVTEX was suspended for the days that Erdoghan was in Athens. IF that is not a revelation of attitude I do not know what is.