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Words of NICOS ROLANDIS

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby -mikkie2- » Fri May 21, 2010 10:32 am

i've been out of the forum for a good while and I have seen many things change over the last few months but one thing that hasnt changed is this forum! if this attitude prevails then Cyprus is well and trully f****d.

We have seen Greece falling apart. Day to day thnings are getting worse there. Do people honestly think Greece will give a shit about Cyprus now? They have much bigger problems on their plate than the stupid whims of our stupid politicians.

Turkey is slowly but surely implementing her will on Cyprus. All the advantages that Cyprus had in her hands over the years are now being erroded bit by bit. Our stupid politicians have let all these advantages trickle through their fingers pursuing idealistic dreams. Yes, us GCs do have very valid grievances but unfortunately, we dont live in an ideal world.

Our politicians cant agree a common strategy on how to solve our problem. We go from bad to worse. We need to take the initiative and make bold steps. We sit back and watch Turkey gaining ground and yet we think that they are not being genuine in wanting to solve the problem, instead putting it all down to communication games to fool the international community. If that is what we think we should be calling Turkeys bluff. But no. We don't. We just sit and complain about injustices being inflicted on us by others.

Take what has happened in the UK. Two political parties from opposite ends of the spectrum have come together to govern the UK. This was to most people inconceivable yet it happened. Surely if the brits can do it then it can happen in Cyprus too. We need a solution fast because being in a situation where we have no control or say in what happens in the north we will surely loose everything. Better to be in a situation where we can have some say and some control in a less than ideal solution than to let things pass us by again. A solution will create a new momentum in Cyprus which will open up so many opportunities for all of us and make Cyprus the jewel that it is.
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Postby Bananiot » Fri May 21, 2010 10:35 am

Hello mikkie, how are you these days? Planning a trip to Cyprus this year? I totally agree with your post.
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Postby YFred » Fri May 21, 2010 10:46 am

BirKibrisli wrote:There are times when the majority opinion does not demand respect but contempt..Once upon a time Slavery was considered natural by the majority of Americans...Once upon a time Aboriginal Australians did not have the right to vote,and this was okey by the majority of Australians...One upon a time Hitler's expansionism was applauded by the majority of Germans...Majorities do not always get it right,and sometimes they get it very wrong indeed...If you strongly believe the majority opinion is disasterous for your country,you would be a shallow hypocrite to respect that opinion...If everyone "respected" majority opinions all the time,and shut up and resign themselves to their fate,the world would not be what it is today....

Majority of the the world governments belived Iraq had WMDs. Will we ever learn?
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Postby -mikkie2- » Fri May 21, 2010 10:58 am

Hi Bananiot. i'm doing fine thanks. very busy with work and home life. i was in cyprus just after easter visiting family. not sure if i will go again this year. we shall see.

hope things are well with you also.
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Postby IMPOSTALIEDUS » Fri May 21, 2010 11:04 am

As we have seen in numerous countries in the eu when it comes to a referendum the politicions get what they want , and if you dont vote the way they want,you will go back and do it again.
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Postby BirKibrisli » Fri May 21, 2010 12:11 pm

Kikapu wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:There are times when the majority opinion does not demand respect but contempt..Once upon a time Slavery was considered natural by the majority of Americans...Once upon a time Aboriginal Australians did not have the right to vote,and this was okey by the majority of Australians...One upon a time Hitler's expansionism was applauded by the majority of Germans...Majorities do not always get it right,and sometimes they get it very wrong indeed...If you strongly believe the majority opinion is disasterous for your country,you would be a shallow hypocrite to respect that opinion...If everyone "respected" majority opinions all the time,and shut up and resign themselves to their fate,the world would not be what it is today....


The only problem with your examples, Bir, is the fact that those events were not decided by the majority in a Democratic way. Democracy means everyone being able to take part in the voting system, in which the decision made by the majority should then be respected, providing it does not violate anyone's Democratic, Constitution and Human Rights. If and when the above principles are violated with a majority vote taken Democratically, then we should expect the supreme courts as an independent body to strike down such majority vote as being unconstitutional.

I don't think 2004 Referendum on the AP violated any of the above principles. The majority said NO for the GCs and the majority said YES for the TCs, which they should both be respected as such. If all the YES votes and all the NO votes were to be added together from both sides, as a percentage, the NO votes won by 55.5%-44.5%. You cannot get anymore democratic than that.!!


The problem is Kikapu people tend to respect those majority decisions they agree with,and anybody who dare to question their wisdom get accused to all sorts of things as you know well...The truth is very few things in Cyprus history have been decided by the majority in a democratic way...The ENOSIS plebisit organised by the GO Church was hardly democratic...Neither was the way the RoC government was comandeered by the GCs...Nor was the Akritas plan,nor was the Sampson coup etc...This new found respect for democracy and human rights amongst certain Cypriots are a little too late...having said that I have no problem respecting the majority GC decision to vote NO in the referandum...As long as they respect my human and democratic right to shoot them down for it,metaphorically speaking... :wink:
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Postby YFred » Fri May 21, 2010 12:14 pm

BirKibrisli wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:There are times when the majority opinion does not demand respect but contempt..Once upon a time Slavery was considered natural by the majority of Americans...Once upon a time Aboriginal Australians did not have the right to vote,and this was okey by the majority of Australians...One upon a time Hitler's expansionism was applauded by the majority of Germans...Majorities do not always get it right,and sometimes they get it very wrong indeed...If you strongly believe the majority opinion is disasterous for your country,you would be a shallow hypocrite to respect that opinion...If everyone "respected" majority opinions all the time,and shut up and resign themselves to their fate,the world would not be what it is today....


The only problem with your examples, Bir, is the fact that those events were not decided by the majority in a Democratic way. Democracy means everyone being able to take part in the voting system, in which the decision made by the majority should then be respected, providing it does not violate anyone's Democratic, Constitution and Human Rights. If and when the above principles are violated with a majority vote taken Democratically, then we should expect the supreme courts as an independent body to strike down such majority vote as being unconstitutional.

I don't think 2004 Referendum on the AP violated any of the above principles. The majority said NO for the GCs and the majority said YES for the TCs, which they should both be respected as such. If all the YES votes and all the NO votes were to be added together from both sides, as a percentage, the NO votes won by 55.5%-44.5%. You cannot get anymore democratic than that.!!


The problem is Kikapu people tend to respect those majority decisions they agree with,and anybody who dare to question their wisdom get accused to all sorts of things as you know well...The truth is very few things in Cyprus history have been decided by the majority in a democratic way...The ENOSIS plebisit organised by the GO Church was hardly democratic...Neither was the way the RoC government was comandeered by the GCs...Nor was the Akritas plan,nor was the Sampson coup etc...This new found respect for democracy and human rights amongst certain Cypriots are a little too late...having said that I have no problem respecting the majority GC decision to vote NO in the referandum...As long as they respect my human and democratic right to shoot them down for it,metaphorically speaking... :wink:

I'll go along with that so long as they also accept the democratic decision of the TCs in the northern lands. No ifs and no buts.
Then it will be solved.
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Postby Kikapu » Fri May 21, 2010 1:23 pm

YFred wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:There are times when the majority opinion does not demand respect but contempt..Once upon a time Slavery was considered natural by the majority of Americans...Once upon a time Aboriginal Australians did not have the right to vote,and this was okey by the majority of Australians...One upon a time Hitler's expansionism was applauded by the majority of Germans...Majorities do not always get it right,and sometimes they get it very wrong indeed...If you strongly believe the majority opinion is disasterous for your country,you would be a shallow hypocrite to respect that opinion...If everyone "respected" majority opinions all the time,and shut up and resign themselves to their fate,the world would not be what it is today....


The only problem with your examples, Bir, is the fact that those events were not decided by the majority in a Democratic way. Democracy means everyone being able to take part in the voting system, in which the decision made by the majority should then be respected, providing it does not violate anyone's Democratic, Constitution and Human Rights. If and when the above principles are violated with a majority vote taken Democratically, then we should expect the supreme courts as an independent body to strike down such majority vote as being unconstitutional.

I don't think 2004 Referendum on the AP violated any of the above principles. The majority said NO for the GCs and the majority said YES for the TCs, which they should both be respected as such. If all the YES votes and all the NO votes were to be added together from both sides, as a percentage, the NO votes won by 55.5%-44.5%. You cannot get anymore democratic than that.!!


The problem is Kikapu people tend to respect those majority decisions they agree with,and anybody who dare to question their wisdom get accused to all sorts of things as you know well...The truth is very few things in Cyprus history have been decided by the majority in a democratic way...The ENOSIS plebisit organised by the GO Church was hardly democratic...Neither was the way the RoC government was comandeered by the GCs...Nor was the Akritas plan,nor was the Sampson coup etc...This new found respect for democracy and human rights amongst certain Cypriots are a little too late...having said that I have no problem respecting the majority GC decision to vote NO in the referandum...As long as they respect my human and democratic right to shoot them down for it,metaphorically speaking... :wink:

I'll go along with that so long as they also accept the democratic decision of the TCs in the northern lands. No ifs and no buts.
Then it will be solved.


You do mean the settlers, surely.??
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Postby YFred » Fri May 21, 2010 1:32 pm

Kikapu wrote:
YFred wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:There are times when the majority opinion does not demand respect but contempt..Once upon a time Slavery was considered natural by the majority of Americans...Once upon a time Aboriginal Australians did not have the right to vote,and this was okey by the majority of Australians...One upon a time Hitler's expansionism was applauded by the majority of Germans...Majorities do not always get it right,and sometimes they get it very wrong indeed...If you strongly believe the majority opinion is disasterous for your country,you would be a shallow hypocrite to respect that opinion...If everyone "respected" majority opinions all the time,and shut up and resign themselves to their fate,the world would not be what it is today....


The only problem with your examples, Bir, is the fact that those events were not decided by the majority in a Democratic way. Democracy means everyone being able to take part in the voting system, in which the decision made by the majority should then be respected, providing it does not violate anyone's Democratic, Constitution and Human Rights. If and when the above principles are violated with a majority vote taken Democratically, then we should expect the supreme courts as an independent body to strike down such majority vote as being unconstitutional.

I don't think 2004 Referendum on the AP violated any of the above principles. The majority said NO for the GCs and the majority said YES for the TCs, which they should both be respected as such. If all the YES votes and all the NO votes were to be added together from both sides, as a percentage, the NO votes won by 55.5%-44.5%. You cannot get anymore democratic than that.!!


The problem is Kikapu people tend to respect those majority decisions they agree with,and anybody who dare to question their wisdom get accused to all sorts of things as you know well...The truth is very few things in Cyprus history have been decided by the majority in a democratic way...The ENOSIS plebisit organised by the GO Church was hardly democratic...Neither was the way the RoC government was comandeered by the GCs...Nor was the Akritas plan,nor was the Sampson coup etc...This new found respect for democracy and human rights amongst certain Cypriots are a little too late...having said that I have no problem respecting the majority GC decision to vote NO in the referandum...As long as they respect my human and democratic right to shoot them down for it,metaphorically speaking... :wink:

I'll go along with that so long as they also accept the democratic decision of the TCs in the northern lands. No ifs and no buts.
Then it will be solved.


You do mean the settlers, surely.??

No. Read what I said. No ifs and no buts. Where does it say settlers?
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Postby Kikapu » Fri May 21, 2010 1:35 pm

YFred wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
YFred wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Kikapu wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:There are times when the majority opinion does not demand respect but contempt..Once upon a time Slavery was considered natural by the majority of Americans...Once upon a time Aboriginal Australians did not have the right to vote,and this was okey by the majority of Australians...One upon a time Hitler's expansionism was applauded by the majority of Germans...Majorities do not always get it right,and sometimes they get it very wrong indeed...If you strongly believe the majority opinion is disasterous for your country,you would be a shallow hypocrite to respect that opinion...If everyone "respected" majority opinions all the time,and shut up and resign themselves to their fate,the world would not be what it is today....


The only problem with your examples, Bir, is the fact that those events were not decided by the majority in a Democratic way. Democracy means everyone being able to take part in the voting system, in which the decision made by the majority should then be respected, providing it does not violate anyone's Democratic, Constitution and Human Rights. If and when the above principles are violated with a majority vote taken Democratically, then we should expect the supreme courts as an independent body to strike down such majority vote as being unconstitutional.

I don't think 2004 Referendum on the AP violated any of the above principles. The majority said NO for the GCs and the majority said YES for the TCs, which they should both be respected as such. If all the YES votes and all the NO votes were to be added together from both sides, as a percentage, the NO votes won by 55.5%-44.5%. You cannot get anymore democratic than that.!!


The problem is Kikapu people tend to respect those majority decisions they agree with,and anybody who dare to question their wisdom get accused to all sorts of things as you know well...The truth is very few things in Cyprus history have been decided by the majority in a democratic way...The ENOSIS plebisit organised by the GO Church was hardly democratic...Neither was the way the RoC government was comandeered by the GCs...Nor was the Akritas plan,nor was the Sampson coup etc...This new found respect for democracy and human rights amongst certain Cypriots are a little too late...having said that I have no problem respecting the majority GC decision to vote NO in the referandum...As long as they respect my human and democratic right to shoot them down for it,metaphorically speaking... :wink:

I'll go along with that so long as they also accept the democratic decision of the TCs in the northern lands. No ifs and no buts.
Then it will be solved.


You do mean the settlers, surely.??

No. Read what I said. No ifs and no buts. Where does it say settlers?


Well, I tried to help you out, but you are determined to sound stupid, so go at it, G-Fred.!
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