Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

It was not a request for an open ended extension. Since both Erdoghan and Annan had the power to insist on a deadline they could just as easily given a six week, for instance, breather for some positions to be put together.

You conveniently forget the EU deadline demanding we enter as one whole united island not as a thorn in their side, if you have no timeline the Cyprus issue will never be solved both sides have to be forced or otherwise you have seen not 6 weeks 19 months is still not enough time for Cypriots to find their own solution.

[Viewpoint]

...indeed it is the winning point for turcophones in Cyprus, and it has been twisted still, i am afraid.

if Turkish Cypriots encouraged the founding of a Greek Cypriot governance, equal and like their own, it would be possible for the Republic to divest itself of its appearance as a "Greek" government, as it will define a standard that National Assemblies can follow, while it demonstrates our united stand on the Principals Universal we have as Individuals.

if Cyprus cannot be "Greek" nor "Turk", Cypriot as a choice will mean something bigger. confidence will be established when the "perfection" which has eluded us so far is found. it will be a solution that is simple, easy to understand, and worthy of its emulation by others, Bicommunal will have a definition which may advance us as Humans.

...and now so too, Bizonal (which cannot mean torn in two as a 'fait accompli')

No Trust = No Solution.

[repulsewarrior]

...apparently, Takism was given up for BBF, what has the turcophone community suggested since then?

regardless the acts of adversaries, such as "Greeks", where have the "Turks" found themselves after all this time?

i remember the Annan plan too, like many others. i remember as well, how the others were ended. but, the Annan plan came to referendum, its success proves a recognition by the population as a whole that the island has its own identity. thus, it is not a judgement on grecophones, its failure was caused by the last minute changes which left unread, undebated, and undemocratic, its contents, sullied.

even though i am Greek by origin VP, i do not think that you will recall a time were i was "Greek". that is not to say that "Greeks" cannot hold Principals whose values are Universal, however we as Cypriots, are not "Greeks"or "Turks", as Greeks and Turks we are citizens of the world. although you think Greeks are few, as a "Turk", Turks remain traitors, Greeks and "Greeks" remain the same.

...perhaps the agreement Turkey and Greece sign today, regionally they will demonstrate an ability to represent this community. Cyprus, with its population will play a vital roll in the social-exchange.

[Viewpoint]

repulse Do you understand why trust is why we cannot find a solution.

[repulsewarrior]

...i promote dialog, and alternatives to the thinking which repeated provides the same result.

first say, "I love Cyprus", then remember we were Turks and Greeks before interlocutors insisted that we represented "Turks" and "Greeks".

...my manifesto gives us a manner to be Persons ie. "Turks" or "Greeks" (or "Maronites", etc. for that matter), as we live as Cypriots in a State, where as Individuals we can stand united for the betterment of Universal Principals.

...not two VP, three or four or many or one, if you want good governance on this island. anything, but "two", is sufficient; as Individuals we are one, in a need for self representation, Sovereign in its Stewardship. as Persons we seek a represetation to sustain our distinctions, only Cyprus can provide this to us, if we live favouring a Bicommunal Principal.

...and what about enclaves? if there are National Assemblies with territorial Jurisdictions, what is wrong with demonstrating to each other Humanity, allowing for the return, for at least some of the Displaced, as communities (Turkish and Greek), what is wrong with displacing Settlers, if they are provided homes instead of houses? what prevents a militarised frontier to continue, better?

trust VP, i'd say is believing that there is a change which as yet remains to be discussed. trust, is believing in the will we have as Human Beings. trust is what was with our isolation from each other, the greatest casualty.

[Acikgoz]

As time rolls on, the lack of any progress towards achieving an integrated communtities solution strongly suggests the incompatability of the two sides. This has implications on the local and global perception of the potential for an integrated solution. Global perception matters considerably for the support of which type of solution is feasible and local perception matters for the willingness of parties to participate in the types of solution discussed.
On the local level "trust" as VP points out is essential to integrated solution. The level of demonstrable "trust" is the pre-cursor to the global perception.
Nikitas points out that BBF is already a significant compromise when looked at from an RoC standpoint, he should also realise it is also a significant compromise when looked at from a TRNC standpoint.
Here-in lies the rub - BBF is also subject to interpretation which is where the negotiations have seemingly floundered. The nothing is solved unless everything is solved approach means that there is no chance of "trust" being established before a final solution is reached, but for a final solution to be reached "trust" is necessary - add another paradox to the Cyprus issue.
Mutually viable compromises made piecemeal can at this stage be the only option for building "trust". For something so obvious for those that really have deliberated the problem, little demonstrable progress has been made.

[Nikitas]

Trust is desirable but not really vital. You can negotiate from a position of mistrust.

The big problem, one that has been dogging the negotiating process from the start, is the insistence on secret diplomacy by both sides. This has been stretched to idiotic proportions with our leaders going thousands of miles away to negotiate in "proximity talks", with each delegation locked in separate rooms and Boutros Galli the UN SG being the go between.

What is needed is a live televised negotiating process, so we can all see what is being argued in our name and how the offers and counter offers reflect the promises made by each leader to his constituents. Doing it openly the leaders will have instant feedback on what is and is not acceptable to their communities. There might even be spontaneous solutions to deadlocks that so often get politicians stuck.

These closed meetings with cryptic statements to the press and engineered leaks are bullshit in the 21st century. Getting another three parties in such a process (Greece, Turkey, Britain) will lead nowhere. Eorglu on his own is a thousand times more trustworthy than all these others.

[Gasman]

What is needed is a live televised negotiating process, so we can all see what is being argued in our name and how the offers and counter offers reflect the promises made by each leader to his constituents.

I agree. And also agree that it has all been 'bullshit' so far. With not wanting to divulge what HAS been agreed and leaving the most important bits until last etc.

I'm starting to think that any 'solution' will be imposed from outside instead of accomplished from within.

[Nikitas]

"and leaving the most important bits until last etc. "

Precisly my view. Often I have wondered what would happen if the properties issued was figure out first and the rest followed. Most likely it would lead to a very fast solution.

[YFred]

What is needed is a live televised negotiating process, so we can all see what is being argued in our name and how the offers and counter offers reflect the promises made by each leader to his constituents.

I agree. And also agree that it has all been 'bullshit' so far. With not wanting to divulge what HAS been agreed and leaving the most important bits until last etc.

I'm starting to think that any 'solution' will be imposed from outside instead of accomplished from within.

You are rather insensitive if I may say so. You will give our patriots a heart attack. On second thoughts that in itself may not be such a bad idea.