Cyprus-Forum.com

[Milo]

Actually I think it goes a bit far on some points for instance the driving in loads of other European countries is poor, its just that the UK has a very high standard to pass a driving test and a trained Police Force that imo is waiting on every corner to book you for any traffic violation they can So therefore you become a good driver, if you dont want to spend half your time paying huge fines and the other half banned from driving, its a good deterrent.

I would have prefered to see the buying of property warning much stronger in fact I would update it regularly. For instance one such Developer has managed to get off the net the CPAG, a pressure group working for thousands who are in dire trouble just because they bought a property in Cyprus. He, the site owner has been summoned to appear in court because he dared to question this particular Developers behaviour with past customers, they want hundreds of euros off him. Hardly a criminal case but they wanted him 'arrested' Very one sided imo.

Its a Pressure Group, lobbying the govt for change (the ONLY reason that the govt has come up with new laws regarding Title Deeds) in the property sector, its clients I know are both Cypriot and Foreign. Freedom of speech is not allowed here either, and if you wish to use the Court system it will take years if you are Foriegn, but a couple of weeks IF you are a Developer. This stifling of human rights has been another flaw in the system that the UK FO should now put on their website. These Developers are no more than criminals, ALL they had to do was address the complaints of their customers, many of them. That alone would have restored the faith. I have written to the UK FO telling them that the warning is not enough and that EVEN getting an independent solicitor, UNLESS you as their client instructs them to do so, does NOT look for encumbrances on the Land you buy. Unbelievable, so you end up buying something that is,nt yours because a Lawyer does,nt HAVE to do their job.

[Gasman]

OK - jokes about Cypriot drivers aside - I don't think the info about Cyprus on there has changed very much over recent years.

And you can find what look like dire warnings about all sorts of countries you would imagine are peaceful and safe on these travel advice websites.

[Gasman]

I would have prefered to see the buying of property warning much stronger

Here is what it says on there about purchasing property:

There are risks involved with purchasing property on the island of Cyprus. Many British nationals, who have purchased property either in the north or south of Cyprus, face problems caused by; misleading advertising, the failure of developers to complete properties that have been purchased off plan, illegal construction or double selling.

Most of these problems can be avoided by taking proper independent legal advice. In addition, both Cypriot and foreign owners of around 100,000 properties have not been able to obtain their title deeds. Some people have been trying to obtain them for over 30 years. There are many cases of people without title deeds finding it difficult to sell their property, or whose developer has imposed a sales fee, high property taxes or service charges. As developers are able to take out mortgages on property for which they hold the title deeds, there is also a risk that a developer could go bankrupt with an outstanding mortgage on the property, rendering it liable to repossession by the mortgage holder.

You should take at least the same steps to protect your interests as you would do at home, and instruct an experienced, reputable lawyer who is totally independent to act on your behalf and ensure that your interests are adequately safeguarded. For further information, please consult our property FAQs. Attempting to save money on professional fees by cutting corners, or by using the seller's lawyers, is a false economy that can result in severe problems later.

The ownership of many properties is disputed in northern Cyprus, with many thousands of claims to ownership of properties from people displaced during the events of 1974. Purchase of property in the north that was Greek Cypriot owned or that was subsequently classified as exchange land/property by the Turkish Cypriot 'authorities' carries a risk of serious financial and legal implications.

The European Court of Human Rights has ruled in a number of cases that owners of property in northern Cyprus prior to 1974 continue to be regarded as the legal owners of that property. The case of Apostolides v Orams established that a judgment of a court in the Republic of Cyprus, ruling in favour of the original Greek Cypriot owner of land in northern Cyprus and against subsequent British purchasers, could be enforced against them under EU law in the UK.

Property owners and potential purchasers should also consider that a future settlement of the Cyprus problem could have serious consequences for property they purchase (including the possible restitution of the property to its original owners).

The leaders of both communities started settlement negotiations in September 2008. Property issues forma key part of these negotiations. Until those negotiations are concluded and a comprehensive settlement agreed, the issues and risks identified above will continue to apply.

If you have purchased a property and are encountering difficulties, you should seek qualified independent legal advice on your rights and methods of redress. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the British High Commission do not offer legal advice nor become involved with property disputes between private individuals, although we may be able to direct British nationals to organisations who may be able to help.

The website of the British High Commission in Nicosia contains information about purchasing property in Cyprus, including frequently asked questions, and information for people who are experiencing difficulties with a property purchase. On 20 October 2006 a criminal code amendment relating to property came into effect. Under the amendment, buying, selling, renting, promoting or mortgaging a property without the permission of the owner (the person whose ownership is registered with the Republic of Cyprus Land Registry, including Greek Cypriots displaced from northern Cyprus in 1974), is a criminal offence. This also applies to agreeing to sell, buy or rent a property without the owner’s permission. The maximum prison sentence is seven years. Furthermore, the amendment to the law states that any attempt to undertake such a transaction is a criminal offence and could result in a prison sentence of up to five years. This law is not retrospective, so will not criminalise transactions that took place before 20 October 2006. Documents relating to the purchase of property in northern Cyprus will be presumed by the Cypriot authorities to relate to the illegal transfer of Greek Cypriot property and may be subject to confiscation when crossing the Green Line. Anyone in possession of these documents may be asked to make a statement to the Cypriot authorities and may face criminal proceedings under the 20 October 2006 amendment.

Any enquiries about the full implications and scope of this legislation should be made to the Republic of Cyprus High Commission in London.

Time share and property salespersons tout for business in Cyprus, especially in the Paphos area. You should read the fine print very carefully and seek legal advice before signing any kind of contract. Under Cyprus law, purchasers of time shares are entitled to a 15-day “cooling off” period during which they should receive a full refund of any money paid if they change their mind.

It seems to cover all the main danger zones to me.

Not sure how much stronger you think it should be? After all, there are still lots of people who do manage to buy property in Cyprus with no problems at all! Buyer beware and taking PROPER independent advice should be taken for granted when buying anything, anywhere. I think if the dangers are pointed out to the exclusion of any benefits, it would kill off the property industry altogether eventually and then those who have already bought would suffer too.

I wouldn't expect a Foreign & Commonwealth Office website to go into detail about every case where a sale has gone bad or name the perpetrators of any frauds etc.

[Gasman]

How about this (from a jobseekers advice website - re moving to and buying in Spain)

Conclusion - buying a property in Spain

Do your homework beforehand and don't be sold easily and you will do fine. There are many great properties for sale in Spain and the Spanish are a very friendly people (it's the ex-pats and tourists that are the problem!)

[Milo]

How about this (from a jobseekers advice website - re moving to and buying in Spain)

Conclusion - buying a property in Spain

Do your homework beforehand and don't be sold easily and you will do fine. There are many great properties for sale in Spain and the Spanish are a very friendly people (it's the ex-pats and tourists that are the problem!)

You are aware that the BHC in Nicosia backed up the CPAG findings so it was a bit more than a pressure group. I can,t imagine they are happy about the CPAG,s chairman being summoned to court.

So in your opinion then, OTHERS like the CPAG who are much more in the know than the UK FO as the CPAG instructed them of the many pitfalls unravelling, should,nt be able to guide future purchasers away from the many pitfalls here? Or is it best in your opinion to just keep quiet for those without any problems (until they come to sell) can carry on regardless on the backs of others miseries, now where have I heard that before?

A couple of links

http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers. ... our-lesson

http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers. ... r-in-court

Admitting buyer beware is at the very least admitting that there are some here out to take your money and run. What is does,nt say is there are more bad than good.

[CBBB]

How about this (from a jobseekers advice website - re moving to and buying in Spain)

Conclusion - buying a property in Spain

Do your homework beforehand and don't be sold easily and you will do fine. There are many great properties for sale in Spain and the Spanish are a very friendly people (it's the ex-pats and tourists that are the problem!)

You are aware that the BHC in Nicosia backed up the CPAG findings so it was a bit more than a pressure group. I can,t imagine they are happy about the CPAG,s chairman being summoned to court.

So in your opinion then, OTHERS like the CPAG who are much more in the know than the UK FO as the CPAG instructed them of the many pitfalls unravelling, should,nt be able to guide future purchasers away from the many pitfalls here? Or is it best in your opinion to just keep quiet for those without any problems (until they come to sell) can carry on regardless on the backs of others miseries, now where have I heard that before?

A couple of links

http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers. ... our-lesson

http://www.news.cyprus-property-buyers. ... r-in-court

Admitting buyer beware is at the very least admitting that there are some here out to take your money and run. What is does,nt say is there are more bad than good.

Gasman didn't say anything about keeping quiet, he agreed people should be aware of the possible problems, but also said many people have purchased here without any problems, which is true.

[Gasman]

So in your opinion then, OTHERS like the CPAG who are much more in the know than the UK FO as the CPAG instructed them of the many pitfalls unravelling, should,nt be able to guide future purchasers away from the many pitfalls here? Or is it best in your opinion to just keep quiet for those without any problems (until they come to sell) can carry on regardless on the backs of others miseries, now where have I heard that before?

No. I am not saying that at all. Please don't put words in my mouth. I have strong views about the rip off developers etc. in Cyprus.

I am just saying that a Foreign & Commonwealth Travel advice website is perhaps not the place to put any STRONGER warnings on about buying property than they have already.

It is not the first choice of prospective buyers to check out facts. Most people use it to check up on dangers of travelling re any terrorist activity, general strikes, extreme weather and what innoculations they need.

I doubt many prospective property purchasers check it out to gen up on the property purchasing situation.

Sadly, most of them seem to head straight for Estate Agent and Property Developer websites and get their information from them.

If I think anything at all (and I've said it many times) it is that THOSE bodies should be made to display accurate information and forced to remove lies and rubbish from their websites about how 'safe' it is.

But no one seems to be bothered about that situation. Yet, when things go wrong, it is more often than not said that they 'trusted their lawyer' (who happened to be recommended by the developer). Or that they 'believed their estate agent'. Not that they went to the FCO website and acted according to the information on there.

[Milo]

I withdraw any remarks that inferred I was speaking for you Was,nt meant I am busy answering emails so got carried away. Of course CBBB you are right many do buy without problems and believe it or not I am one of them.

But as I have,nt got the numbers the amount that do have grave problems after buying I can,t say. I expect the new website for the CPAG to be started again with others and fully funded and out of the country, much more strident very soon, then perhaps a more balanced view can be allowed.

But as I live here too and enjoy my life an work, I am concerned that others are not, as they are suffering at the hands of the few, apologies for not balancing my post, in future I will always add that fact that not all Developers and Lawyers are bad, and not everyone has been affected.

Just an awful large amount.

[Gasman]

Gasman didn't say anything about keeping quiet, he agreed people should be aware of the possible problems, but also said many people have purchased here without any problems, which is true.

Thank you CBBB.

No problem Milo. Just that it is enough to have Oracle misquoting me and making assumptions about me without you starting too!

And for your info - I do not like the 'don't rock the boat - I'm alright Jack' attitude of some who have bought here myself. I was merely commenting that perhaps the Foreign & Commonwealth Office is not the best place to have comprehensive information and detailed warnings about every pitfall of house purchase abroad. After all - they deal with more countries than just Cyprus!

PS CBBB - Gasman is a she. Couldn't resist putting Lady O right after almost a year of her accusing me of being a big fat ugly misogynistic bloke who didn't respect women and worse!

Now I better get on with some work while this new dog of mine is snoring her 3 month old head off!

[CBBB]

Gasman didn't say anything about keeping quiet, he agreed people should be aware of the possible problems, but also said many people have purchased here without any problems, which is true.

Thank you CBBB.

No problem Milo. Just that it is enough to have Oracle misquoting me and making assumptions about me without you starting too!

And for your info - I do not like the 'don't rock the boat - I'm alright Jack' attitude of some who have bought here myself. I was merely commenting that perhaps the Foreign & Commonwealth Office is not the best place to have comprehensive information and detailed warnings about every pitfall of house purchase abroad. After all - they deal with more countries than just Cyprus!

PS CBBB - Gasman is a she. Couldn't resist putting Lady O right after almost a year of her accusing me of being a big fat ugly misogynistic bloke who didn't respect women and worse!

Now I better get on with some work while this new dog of mine is snoring her 3 month old head off!

I hope it is a dog, not a bitch, you seem to be having trouble with bitches!