Cyprus-Forum.com

[YFred]

Only idiots will disagree that a negotiated partition was desirable in opposition to to Greek demand for Enosis.

I agree with that. I think the failed coup just provided the excuse or reason Turkey needed for intervention.

But I also agree that before then there were so many various 'solutions' being discussed for Cyprus that, whatever had happened could now be said to have been 'premeditated'.

Let’s get our thoughts right on this one. The coup did not failed until after TA arrived on the island and it only failed because of it. If anybody is under the impression that the coup was destined to fail, is living in cloud cuckoo land.

[Kikapu]

There are recent discussions on CF, arguing if today's line that divides the occupied Cyprus from the free Cyprus were premeditated.

The answer is yes.

The evidence is provided by the late Dr Fazil Küçük (1906-1984) who proposed the attached map in the year 1957 (RE: Partition of Cyprus), found in a booklet, currently available from the Cyprus Consulate office in Toronto, Canada.

The population stats for year 1960 indicate the Turkish Cypriots at 18%, Greek Cypriots at 77% and other nationals at 5%. Link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus

Not sure which elementary school Dr Fazil Küçük attended (born in Nicosia) but simple math tells me, the 18% TC population does not add up to the 50% claim of Cyprus land, as the attached document indicates.

Therefor, since this TC proposal was impossible to meet via peaceful negotiation, war was needed to achieve it. Hence the 1974 war and it's result as depicted at the bottom of the attached document.

Clearly, Dr Fazil Küçük's premeditated wishes came true as planned. Not exactly what he had in mind but pretty close, don't you think?

Only idiots will disagree that a negotiated partition was desirable in opposition to to Greek demand for Enosis. However I maintain that this 'partition by invasion' and 'war' was not pre-meditated. The 'partition by war' scenario was achieved by the events of the coup of 1974. If there was no pretext, there would not have been an invasion(whateever you would like to call it - it WAS an invasion).

Partition dreams of Enosis and Taksim was guaranteed to be achieved, one or the other, or both at the same time by which ever means possible, with the creation of the 1959 Zurich Agreements. Only such an agreement could have secured to bring about partition in Cyprus by imposing a dysfunctional and unworkable constitution on Cypriots based on Racist, Undemocratic and violations of Human Rights, which in the end, it was possible to achieve partition, therefore, premeditation to partition Cyprus was alive and well in 1959 . The only problem was, it could not make such partition be made legal, hence the partitioned northern Cyprus by one of the so called guarantors, who were suppose to safeguard Cyprus from such partitions, it itself created the "trnc", but it could only become an illegal state. What would have made the partition of Cyprus cemented and made illegal state of the "trnc" to become legal at the same time, was if Cypriots themselves accepted the disguised partition Annan Plan in 2004. The rest is history.!

[YFred]

There are recent discussions on CF, arguing if today's line that divides the occupied Cyprus from the free Cyprus were premeditated.

The answer is yes.

The evidence is provided by the late Dr Fazil Küçük (1906-1984) who proposed the attached map in the year 1957 (RE: Partition of Cyprus), found in a booklet, currently available from the Cyprus Consulate office in Toronto, Canada.

The population stats for year 1960 indicate the Turkish Cypriots at 18%, Greek Cypriots at 77% and other nationals at 5%. Link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus

Not sure which elementary school Dr Fazil Küçük attended (born in Nicosia) but simple math tells me, the 18% TC population does not add up to the 50% claim of Cyprus land, as the attached document indicates.

Therefor, since this TC proposal was impossible to meet via peaceful negotiation, war was needed to achieve it. Hence the 1974 war and it's result as depicted at the bottom of the attached document.

Clearly, Dr Fazil Küçük's premeditated wishes came true as planned. Not exactly what he had in mind but pretty close, don't you think?

Only idiots will disagree that a negotiated partition was desirable in opposition to to Greek demand for Enosis. However I maintain that this 'partition by invasion' and 'war' was not pre-meditated. The 'partition by war' scenario was achieved by the events of the coup of 1974. If there was no pretext, there would not have been an invasion(whateever you would like to call it - it WAS an invasion).

Partition dreams of Enosis and Taksim was guaranteed to be achieved, one or the other, or both at the same time by which ever means possible, with the creation of the 1959 Zurich Agreements. Only such an agreement could have secured to bring about partition in Cyprus by imposing a dysfunctional and unworkable constitution on Cypriots based on Racist, Undemocratic and violations of Human Rights, which in the end, it was possible to achieve partition, therefore, premeditation to partition Cyprus was alive and well in 1959 . The only problem was, it could not make such partition be made legal, hence the partitioned northern Cyprus by one of the so called guarantors, who were suppose to safeguard Cyprus from such partitions, it itself created the "trnc", but it could only become an illegal state. What would have made the partition of Cyprus cemented and made illegal state of the "trnc" to become legal at the same time, was if Cypriots themselves accepted the disguised partition Annan Plan in 2004. The rest is history.!

No. total bollox. If there was such plan, the enclaves would not be a first step as they were undefendable. Stop making things up. TCs reacted to the situation as they found it.
Stop this bollox FFS furkin wake up.

[bsharpish]

Only idiots will disagree that a negotiated partition was desirable in opposition to to Greek demand for Enosis.

I agree with that. I think the failed coup just provided the excuse or reason Turkey needed for intervention.

But I also agree that before then there were so many various 'solutions' being discussed for Cyprus that, whatever had happened could now be said to have been 'premeditated'.

No it was all part of some dark English masterplan ..... 14 years after Cyprus became independant the innocent turks\greeks reached up to the top shelf and grabbed the "BIG BOOK OF ENGLISH EVIL PLANS", blew off the dust and commenced the killing .

[denizaksulu]

There are recent discussions on CF, arguing if today's line that divides the occupied Cyprus from the free Cyprus were premeditated.

The answer is yes.

The evidence is provided by the late Dr Fazil Küçük (1906-1984) who proposed the attached map in the year 1957 (RE: Partition of Cyprus), found in a booklet, currently available from the Cyprus Consulate office in Toronto, Canada.

The population stats for year 1960 indicate the Turkish Cypriots at 18%, Greek Cypriots at 77% and other nationals at 5%. Link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus

Not sure which elementary school Dr Fazil Küçük attended (born in Nicosia) but simple math tells me, the 18% TC population does not add up to the 50% claim of Cyprus land, as the attached document indicates.

Therefor, since this TC proposal was impossible to meet via peaceful negotiation, war was needed to achieve it. Hence the 1974 war and it's result as depicted at the bottom of the attached document.

Clearly, Dr Fazil Küçük's premeditated wishes came true as planned. Not exactly what he had in mind but pretty close, don't you think?

Only idiots will disagree that a negotiated partition was desirable in opposition to to Greek demand for Enosis. However I maintain that this 'partition by invasion' and 'war' was not pre-meditated. The 'partition by war' scenario was achieved by the events of the coup of 1974. If there was no pretext, there would not have been an invasion(whateever you would like to call it - it WAS an invasion).

Deniz, this is the biggest pile of crap you have ever posted. Total lies and deceit.

of course it was premeditated and the historical facts are there, documents released under the UK FOI act shows this quite clearly, and the whole situation was architected by the US/UK governments to make this situation possible, FFS.

My god, how ignorant can you people be.

yes we were all manipulated by the external forces, but please, don't come up with such BS and expect and credibility.

its no wonder you guys live in a vacuum, you have done no evil, seen no evil, heard no eveil, 3 wise bloody monkeys.

Pft!

I am talking about the conception of the idea of a negotıated taksım. What followed is a different story. You dont understand, simply because you dont want to.

Keep the insults to yourself - ne idüğü belirsiz herif!!

[Kikapu]

There are recent discussions on CF, arguing if today's line that divides the occupied Cyprus from the free Cyprus were premeditated.

The answer is yes.

The evidence is provided by the late Dr Fazil Küçük (1906-1984) who proposed the attached map in the year 1957 (RE: Partition of Cyprus), found in a booklet, currently available from the Cyprus Consulate office in Toronto, Canada.

The population stats for year 1960 indicate the Turkish Cypriots at 18%, Greek Cypriots at 77% and other nationals at 5%. Link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus

Not sure which elementary school Dr Fazil Küçük attended (born in Nicosia) but simple math tells me, the 18% TC population does not add up to the 50% claim of Cyprus land, as the attached document indicates.

Therefor, since this TC proposal was impossible to meet via peaceful negotiation, war was needed to achieve it. Hence the 1974 war and it's result as depicted at the bottom of the attached document.

Clearly, Dr Fazil Küçük's premeditated wishes came true as planned. Not exactly what he had in mind but pretty close, don't you think?

Only idiots will disagree that a negotiated partition was desirable in opposition to to Greek demand for Enosis. However I maintain that this 'partition by invasion' and 'war' was not pre-meditated. The 'partition by war' scenario was achieved by the events of the coup of 1974. If there was no pretext, there would not have been an invasion(whateever you would like to call it - it WAS an invasion).

Partition dreams of Enosis and Taksim was guaranteed to be achieved, one or the other, or both at the same time by which ever means possible, with the creation of the 1959 Zurich Agreements. Only such an agreement could have secured to bring about partition in Cyprus by imposing a dysfunctional and unworkable constitution on Cypriots based on Racist, Undemocratic and violations of Human Rights, which in the end, it was possible to achieve partition, therefore, premeditation to partition Cyprus was alive and well in 1959 . The only problem was, it could not make such partition be made legal, hence the partitioned northern Cyprus by one of the so called guarantors, who were suppose to safeguard Cyprus from such partitions, it itself created the "trnc", but it could only become an illegal state. What would have made the partition of Cyprus cemented and made illegal state of the "trnc" to become legal at the same time, was if Cypriots themselves accepted the disguised partition Annan Plan in 2004. The rest is history.!

No. total bollox. If there was such plan, the enclaves would not be a first step as they were undefendable. Stop making things up. TCs reacted to the situation as they found it.
Stop this bollox FFS furkin wake up.

I have no idea what it is that you want to say above.!:?

If you start reading a book from halfway into the book and not from the beginning, then you are likely to get confused and disoriented in what the whole book was about, which you seem to demonstrate over and over again as to what happens to you most of the time, confirmed by your postings..!

[Piratis]

in the period 1950/60 (and subsequently come to think of it) there were so many different "solutions" offered up to the Cyprob that it would be possible to offer "evidence of pre-meditation" for almost any realistic set of circumstances. The situation that exists today on Cyprus is just the one that happened to come about.

I expect "evidence of pre-meditation" exists for every set of circumstances from Cyprus being part of Greece, through Cypriots living prosporously and amicably together, to being a part of Turkey, or even a part of the Soviet Union.

Evidence of wishful thinking more like, or in some cases frustration.

Partition has been the number 1 aim of the Turkish policy for Cyprus since the 1950s until today. Not merely some insignificant proposed "solution" as you like to present it.

And partition, especially with such large portion of Cyprus going to the Turks as they demanded, could not have been achieved in any peaceful way. The Turks knew fully well that brute force was the only way to make Turkish a part of Cyprus where the 80% of the population was GCs and where GCs have roots going back 1000s of years.

Turkey had a plan to invade Cyprus and they did so at a moment when Cyprus was the weakest. Far more coops happened in Turkey itself. A coop not only is not a reason, it can not even be an excuse to invade a 3rd country and ethnically cleanse the vast majority of its population from 1/3rd of its territory and then continue to occupy this part for 35 years, when the "reason" they invaded was gone within a couple of days.

[Gasman]

14 years after Cyprus became independant the innocent turks\greeks reached up to the top shelf and grabbed the "BIG BOOK OF ENGLISH EVIL PLANS", blew off the dust and commenced the killing

[Acikgoz]

Agreed, blame the Turks, blame the Brits, but not the GCs, they were the innocent party.
Not one comment by my GC brethren about the decades of calls for Enosis which only in the last decade and a half has become a minority call and please let us not forget the actions of the GC govt / militia etc. that isolated TCs and forced them to create their own government and civil orgs in the run up to 1974. There was cultural and physical Taksim long before 1974.
The current border part of Taksim came well after.

[georgios100]

There are recent discussions on CF, arguing if today's line that divides the occupied Cyprus from the free Cyprus were premeditated.

The answer is yes.

The evidence is provided by the late Dr Fazil Küçük (1906-1984) who proposed the attached map in the year 1957 (RE: Partition of Cyprus), found in a booklet, currently available from the Cyprus Consulate office in Toronto, Canada.

The population stats for year 1960 indicate the Turkish Cypriots at 18%, Greek Cypriots at 77% and other nationals at 5%. Link http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyprus

Not sure which elementary school Dr Fazil Küçük attended (born in Nicosia) but simple math tells me, the 18% TC population does not add up to the 50% claim of Cyprus land, as the attached document indicates.

Therefor, since this TC proposal was impossible to meet via peaceful negotiation, war was needed to achieve it. Hence the 1974 war and it's result as depicted at the bottom of the attached document.

Clearly, Dr Fazil Küçük's premeditated wishes came true as planned. Not exactly what he had in mind but pretty close, don't you think?

Are you all insane?

Take another look at the document I posted. And I ask again:

On what grounds Dr Fazil Küçük proposed to divide Cyprus 50%/50% when the Turkish Cypriots were only 18%?

Can any TC on this board explain this "crazy" demand? Anyone? Speak up! Don't give me any more BS but a reasonable explanation to debate on. Pay attention to the map again. Famagusta, Nicosia, Keryneia, Morphu and Polis are included!!!

Furthermore, is this partition proposal considered a "realistic basis" for negotiation? Who, in his right mind would agree to entertain such an outrageous proposal?

Dr Fazil Küçük knew that his proposal would not fly but convinced Turkey to implement his proposed partition with any means nesessary.

Dr Fazil Küçük proposal was a "silent" declaration of war.

The 1974 coup was the mere excuse to achieve the ultimate target. The whole thing was indeed PREMEDITATED, no doubt.