Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

If we are historically enemies that is because you invaded our lands. Do you now expect us to abandon the identity we had for 1000s of years and let you de-Hellenize our island, as it was your initial objective when we first became enemies?

Apparently you want to maintain the historical enmity you initiated against us. Isn't it time for you to leave such "historical enmities" behind and start showing some respect to the people who suffered for centuries due to the Turkish aggression and expansionism?

[Piratis]

...if I was called to fight in a war for my country then I wouldn't try to avoid my responsibility.

I'm sure you would, but unless you're also prepared to fight against Greece (if you had to) you risk getting branded a Greek cock sucker!

That's what separates the Cypriots from the duds... complete and unwavering allegiance to the ONE AND ONLY motherland… Cyprus!

A democratic Greece would never try to impose anything on Cyprus, so I would never need to fight against them.

If Greece falls again under some fascist Junta and they try to force on us anything that we do not want then yes, I would fight against such kind of regime like most others Greeks would.

[BirKibrisli]

If we are historically enemies that is because you invaded our lands. Do you now expect us to abandon the identity we had for 1000s of years and let you de-Hellenize our island, as it was your initial objective when we first became enemies?

Apparently you want to maintain the historical enmity you initiated against us. Isn't it time for you to leave such "historical enmities" behind and start showing some respect to the people who suffered for centuries due to the Turkish aggression and expansionism?

My knowledge of modern history tells me it was the Greek Army that invaded Anatolia at the end of WWI...That was the latest and the most relevant reason for the animosity in the TC collective consciousness...

We will leave such historical enmities behind when you stop talking about Cyprus being Greek and about "Turkish aggression" and so-called expantionism...In other words when you come down to earth from your Greek mountain top,which might be never...

[Piratis]

If we are historically enemies that is because you invaded our lands. Do you now expect us to abandon the identity we had for 1000s of years and let you de-Hellenize our island, as it was your initial objective when we first became enemies?

Apparently you want to maintain the historical enmity you initiated against us. Isn't it time for you to leave such "historical enmities" behind and start showing some respect to the people who suffered for centuries due to the Turkish aggression and expansionism?

My knowledge of modern history tells me it was the Greek Army that invaded Anatolia at the end of WWI...That was the latest and the most relevant reason for the animosity in the TC collective consciousness...

We will leave such historical enmities behind when you stop talking about Cyprus being Greek and about "Turkish aggression" and so-called expantionism...In other words when you come down to earth from your Greek mountain top,which might be never...

Oh, so there was no Greek-Turkish enmity before WWI? Just like there was no inter-communal conflict before 63?

Cyprus was Greek before you came here and it will remain Greek. The Turkish aggression, expansionism and your effort to de-Hellenize our lands is what created this enmity, and this enmity will end when you stop trying to force us to abandon our identity and take control of our lands.

[BirKibrisli]

If we are historically enemies that is because you invaded our lands. Do you now expect us to abandon the identity we had for 1000s of years and let you de-Hellenize our island, as it was your initial objective when we first became enemies?

Apparently you want to maintain the historical enmity you initiated against us. Isn't it time for you to leave such "historical enmities" behind and start showing some respect to the people who suffered for centuries due to the Turkish aggression and expansionism?

My knowledge of modern history tells me it was the Greek Army that invaded Anatolia at the end of WWI...That was the latest and the most relevant reason for the animosity in the TC collective consciousness...

We will leave such historical enmities behind when you stop talking about Cyprus being Greek and about "Turkish aggression" and so-called expantionism...In other words when you come down to earth from your Greek mountain top,which might be never...

Oh, so there was no Greek-Turkish enmity before WWI? Just like there was no inter-communal conflict before 63?

Cyprus was Greek before you came here and it will remain Greek. The Turkish aggression, expansionism and your effort to de-Hellenize our lands is what created this enmity, and this enmity will end when you stop trying to force us to abandon our identity and take control of our lands.

You are doing your best to deflect my arguments,Piratis. But you are fooling no one. I didn't say there were no enmity before WWI. I said that episode was the most recent and relevant influence in TC collective consciousness...Unlike fanatical Greek nationalists like you,we do not carry centuries old conflicts in our hearts and minds...Cyprus was never Greek...It never actually came under Greek administration...Cyprus is a Mediterranean island inhabited by people of many different backgrounds,the majority of whom consider themselves ethnically Greek...Just like Australia who is a continent inhabited by many different ethnic people,the majority of whom are from an Anglo-celtic background...This does not make Australia British,even though she was part of the British empire till about 1900...No one is trying to de-Hellenise the GCs...You are free to feel as Greek as you like,as long as you don't try to impose your Greekness on the rest of the Cypriots,and try to make them second class citizens in their own country,which was/is what ENOSIS with Greece all about...You can keep your GC identity and let us keep our TC identity by returning us our rights you took at gunpoint in 1963...And promise that never again you will try to subvert our sovereignty by treacherous dreams of ENOSIS...Then we will kiss and make up,and go forth towards becoming a nation of Cypriots...

[Piratis]

If we are historically enemies that is because you invaded our lands. Do you now expect us to abandon the identity we had for 1000s of years and let you de-Hellenize our island, as it was your initial objective when we first became enemies?

Apparently you want to maintain the historical enmity you initiated against us. Isn't it time for you to leave such "historical enmities" behind and start showing some respect to the people who suffered for centuries due to the Turkish aggression and expansionism?

My knowledge of modern history tells me it was the Greek Army that invaded Anatolia at the end of WWI...That was the latest and the most relevant reason for the animosity in the TC collective consciousness...

We will leave such historical enmities behind when you stop talking about Cyprus being Greek and about "Turkish aggression" and so-called expantionism...In other words when you come down to earth from your Greek mountain top,which might be never...

Oh, so there was no Greek-Turkish enmity before WWI? Just like there was no inter-communal conflict before 63?

Cyprus was Greek before you came here and it will remain Greek. The Turkish aggression, expansionism and your effort to de-Hellenize our lands is what created this enmity, and this enmity will end when you stop trying to force us to abandon our identity and take control of our lands.

You are doing your best to deflect my arguments,Piratis. But you are fooling no one. I didn't say there were no enmity before WWI. I said that episode was the most recent and relevant influence in TC collective consciousness...Unlike fanatical Greek nationalists like you,we do not carry centuries old conflicts in our hearts and minds...Cyprus was never Greek...It never actually came under Greek administration...Cyprus is a Mediterranean island inhabited by people of many different backgrounds,the majority of whom consider themselves ethnically Greek...Just like Australia who is a continent inhabited by many different ethnic people,the majority of whom are from an Anglo-celtic background...This does not make Australia British,even though she was part of the British empire till about 1900...No one is trying to de-Hellenise the GCs...You are free to feel as Greek as you like,as long as you don't try to impose your Greekness on the rest of the Cypriots,and try to make them second class citizens in their own country,which was/is what ENOSIS with Greece all about...You can keep your GC identity and let us keep our TC identity by returning us our rights you took at gunpoint in 1963...And promise that never again you will try to subvert our sovereignty by treacherous dreams of ENOSIS...Then we will kiss and make up,and go forth towards becoming a nation of Cypriots...

The most recent is the Turkish occupation of Cyprus by Turkish troops and the Turkish demands in Aegean which happen now.

The most recent events before you started the inter-communal conflict were the attacks of the Turks against the Greeks in Constantinople on September 6, 1955.

Cyprus is as Greek as any other Greek island or territory. I am still waiting from you to tell me what is the difference between Cyprus and say Crete or Rhodes, apart from the fact that you refused to Cyprus the legitimate right to unite with the rest of the Greek territories after being liberated from foreign rulers.

Australia is not British because that is what the majority of Australians choose. The majority of Cypriots never choose to be separate from the rest of Greeks. On the contrary this was imposed on Cyprus by force by the foreign imperialists.

I don't try to impose our "Greekness" to anybody neither I ever said you should be second class citizen. Ethnic minorities exist everywhere and you are free to maintain the identity of your minority, I have no problem with this whatsoever.

We will kiss and make up when you stop trying to de-Hellenize our island and impose on us your own will by force. This is our island and if we democratically choose to we can unite it with the rest of Greece, with the rest of Europe or even with China. You can be equal citizen and you can have your minority rights, but you can not impose your minority opinion by force. We are not living in the time of the Ottomans.

[Pyrpolizer]

Guys guys...

We are talking for the Cyprus Conflict here. No

No side is fully innocent and no side is fully guilty. Why don't we admit we all did bad things to the other community.

So I am asking bot PIRATIS and MR-FROM-NG:

Would you die to defend the rights of each other in case of an agreed solution?

Pyrpolizer, I'd like to say I'm a proud Cypriot and yes I would fight for my fellow Cypriot. But I need to accepted as a Cypriot first by you guys. I need you to hug me as a brother, not tell me to fuck off back to Turkey every 5 minutes. Can you understand this? Can I ever expect Piratis, Oracle, Sotos, Kifeas to give me a hug and call me brother?

You are accepted as a Cypriot my friend, that goes without saying. We would love to gug you as brother rather than let you go to Turkey because we would be less without you.
I am satisfied from your answer,

Guys guys...

We are talking for the Cyprus Conflict here. No

No side is fully innocent and no side is fully guilty. Why don't we admit we all did bad things to the other community.

Pyrpolizer, I many times condemned the crimes committed against innocent TCs, but apparently this means nothing to them. According to them we should take the whole responsibility and accept to "pay the price" for everything that happened in the past while TCs will be gaining land and power on our expense.

Of course no side is fully innocent, but this doesn't mean that all sides have the exact same responsibility for what happened in the past. That said, personally I don't want to punish anybody today for what his side did in the past. On the contrary what I want is to stop using the past as an excuse to continue harming each other, and instead finally accept for Cyprus to become a modern democratic country where all its citizens are equal without racist discriminations and anachronistic undemocratic systems.

So I am asking bot PIRATIS and MR-FROM-NG:

Would you die to defend the rights of each other in case of an agreed solution?

I am not a hero The only people I would voluntarily sacrifice my life for are my close family. That said, if I was called to fight in a war for my country then I wouldn't try to avoid my responsibility.

Beyond that I wouldn't want to give up my life for anything else, but I would surely support the human rights of all Cypriots regardless of what their ethnicity is and I wouldn't agree for the human rights of anybody to be compromised.

Fair enough Piratis. I am satisfied by your answer as well.

**************************************


That said I believe we are over exagerating our complains against the other community. We are TRAPPED here in Cyprus in BAD situations from which we are too weak to escape. The GCs were TRAPPED by Greece in the past, the TCs by Turkey now. Only an agreed solution will get us out of this. In the meantime we have to acknowledge that it is not only the GC refugees who suffer from this, it is also the WHOLE of the TCs, and try not to be so bickering to each other. Our problem is not the other community as a whole. True there is a large percentage of each other who does not value the other community based simply on racist prejudices. There is only one way for thm to change too. The solution….

[Pyrpolizer]

Pyrpolizer, I'd like to say I'm a proud Cypriot and yes I would fight for my fellow Cypriot. But I need to excepted as a Cypriot first by you guys. I need you to hug me as a brother, not tell me to fuck off back to Turkey every 5 minutes. Can you understand this? Can I ever expect Piratis, Oracle, Sotos, Kifeas to give me a hug and call me brother?

Unless you’re prepared to take up arms against Greece and/or Turkey and/or any other interfering foreigner, you can never be a brother of mine!

Nobody is prepared to do that my friend. Therefore you have no brothers.
You have only GC and TC "sisters" to live with.

[Pyrpolizer]

If we are historically enemies that is because you invaded our lands. Do you now expect us to abandon the identity we had for 1000s of years and let you de-Hellenize our island, as it was your initial objective when we first became enemies?

Apparently you want to maintain the historical enmity you initiated against us. Isn't it time for you to leave such "historical enmities" behind and start showing some respect to the people who suffered for centuries due to the Turkish aggression and expansionism?

My knowledge of modern history tells me it was the Greek Army that invaded Anatolia at the end of WWI...That was the latest and the most relevant reason for the animosity in the TC collective consciousness...

We will leave such historical enmities behind when you stop talking about Cyprus being Greek and about "Turkish aggression" and so-called expantionism...In other words when you come down to earth from your Greek mountain top,which might be never...

Oh, so there was no Greek-Turkish enmity before WWI? Just like there was no inter-communal conflict before 63?

Cyprus was Greek before you came here and it will remain Greek. The Turkish aggression, expansionism and your effort to de-Hellenize our lands is what created this enmity, and this enmity will end when you stop trying to force us to abandon our identity and take control of our lands.

You are doing your best to deflect my arguments,Piratis. But you are fooling no one. I didn't say there were no enmity before WWI. I said that episode was the most recent and relevant influence in TC collective consciousness...Unlike fanatical Greek nationalists like you,we do not carry centuries old conflicts in our hearts and minds...Cyprus was never Greek...It never actually came under Greek administration...Cyprus is a Mediterranean island inhabited by people of many different backgrounds,the majority of whom consider themselves ethnically Greek...Just like Australia who is a continent inhabited by many different ethnic people,the majority of whom are from an Anglo-celtic background...This does not make Australia British,even though she was part of the British empire till about 1900...No one is trying to de-Hellenise the GCs...You are free to feel as Greek as you like,as long as you don't try to impose your Greekness on the rest of the Cypriots,and try to make them second class citizens in their own country,which was/is what ENOSIS with Greece all about...You can keep your GC identity and let us keep our TC identity by returning us our rights you took at gunpoint in 1963...And promise that never again you will try to subvert our sovereignty by treacherous dreams of ENOSIS...Then we will kiss and make up,and go forth towards becoming a nation of Cypriots...

Very very precise!!

[Pyrpolizer]

If we are historically enemies that is because you invaded our lands. Do you now expect us to abandon the identity we had for 1000s of years and let you de-Hellenize our island, as it was your initial objective when we first became enemies?

Apparently you want to maintain the historical enmity you initiated against us. Isn't it time for you to leave such "historical enmities" behind and start showing some respect to the people who suffered for centuries due to the Turkish aggression and expansionism?

My knowledge of modern history tells me it was the Greek Army that invaded Anatolia at the end of WWI...That was the latest and the most relevant reason for the animosity in the TC collective consciousness...

We will leave such historical enmities behind when you stop talking about Cyprus being Greek and about "Turkish aggression" and so-called expantionism...In other words when you come down to earth from your Greek mountain top,which might be never...

Oh, so there was no Greek-Turkish enmity before WWI? Just like there was no inter-communal conflict before 63?

Cyprus was Greek before you came here and it will remain Greek. The Turkish aggression, expansionism and your effort to de-Hellenize our lands is what created this enmity, and this enmity will end when you stop trying to force us to abandon our identity and take control of our lands.

You are doing your best to deflect my arguments,Piratis. But you are fooling no one. I didn't say there were no enmity before WWI. I said that episode was the most recent and relevant influence in TC collective consciousness...Unlike fanatical Greek nationalists like you,we do not carry centuries old conflicts in our hearts and minds...Cyprus was never Greek...It never actually came under Greek administration...Cyprus is a Mediterranean island inhabited by people of many different backgrounds,the majority of whom consider themselves ethnically Greek...Just like Australia who is a continent inhabited by many different ethnic people,the majority of whom are from an Anglo-celtic background...This does not make Australia British,even though she was part of the British empire till about 1900...No one is trying to de-Hellenise the GCs...You are free to feel as Greek as you like,as long as you don't try to impose your Greekness on the rest of the Cypriots,and try to make them second class citizens in their own country,which was/is what ENOSIS with Greece all about...You can keep your GC identity and let us keep our TC identity by returning us our rights you took at gunpoint in 1963...And promise that never again you will try to subvert our sovereignty by treacherous dreams of ENOSIS...Then we will kiss and make up,and go forth towards becoming a nation of Cypriots...

The most recent is the Turkish occupation of Cyprus by Turkish troops and the Turkish demands in Aegean which happen now.

The most recent events before you started the inter-communal conflict were the attacks of the Turks against the Greeks in Constantinople on September 6, 1955.

Cyprus is as Greek as any other Greek island or territory. I am still waiting from you to tell me what is the difference between Cyprus and say Crete or Rhodes, apart from the fact that you refused to Cyprus the legitimate right to unite with the rest of the Greek territories after being liberated from foreign rulers.

Australia is not British because that is what the majority of Australians choose. The majority of Cypriots never choose to be separate from the rest of Greeks. On the contrary this was imposed on Cyprus by force by the foreign imperialists.

I don't try to impose our "Greekness" to anybody neither I ever said you should be second class citizen. Ethnic minorities exist everywhere and you are free to maintain the identity of your minority, I have no problem with this whatsoever.

We will kiss and make up when you stop trying to de-Hellenize our island and impose on us your own will by force. This is our island and if we democratically choose to we can unite it with the rest of Greece, with the rest of Europe or even with China. You can be equal citizen and you can have your minority rights, but you can not impose your minority opinion by force. We are not living in the time of the Ottomans.

We can also democratically chose NOT TO, and I BET this is the case today. So this leaves us to the point we want an independent CYPRUS part of the EU as it is today, free from foreign troops in which the rights of GCs and TCs are respected in some sort of Federal system.