Cyprus-Forum.com

[Acikgoz]

Roll on 35 - 47 - 55 years what happened happened. Mistakes were made on both sides, this is not an argument that can be won as neither side as you can't judge one person's grief or loss vs another person's - the issues of possessions, rights, lives, suffering etc. are all subjective feelings that cannot be quantified and weighed.

Wise people learn from their experiences, this is why I cannot for the life of me understand how those people that have 5,000, 10,000, 20,000+ posts continue to harp on about the same rubbish knowing full well that there is no final right answer to who was right and who was wrong.

1 says you started it the other says you did.
1 says you ruined our perfect lives the other says you ruined our perfect lives.
1 says you stole my land the other says you stole my land.
1 says you committed murder and terrorism the other responds the same.

All have valid arguments - but bottom line nothing is resolved.

Q. Do people actually learn much from this forum considering the time and effort that they put into it?

[BirKibrisli]

No side has superior rights.

I am puzzled by what seem to be constant arguments (or slanging matches) on here trying to prove who is in the right and who is in the wrong (or who is more right, or more wrong) which are based on who had the greatest number of their people 'driven out' or 'displaced'.

It is not right that anyone should be driven from their home, whether it be one person or a million people - it doesn't make it any less 'not right' for one side to bring this about if less people are affected. And doesn't make it 'more unjust' if more people are affected.

I just don't get the 'you forced more out than we did' argument put forward as justification or proof of innocence or whatever.

In the same way, someone who lost close family is not going to be more upset about it if 200 thousand other people did, or less upset about it if 40,000 other people did.

Welcome to the club,GAsman...I have been pulling my hair out over this for years...so much so that I have none left...But that stupid,mindless argument still goes on...

[repulsewarrior]

No side has superior rights.

I am puzzled by what seem to be constant arguments (or slanging matches) on here trying to prove who is in the right and who is in the wrong (or who is more right, or more wrong) which are based on who had the greatest number of their people 'driven out' or 'displaced'.

It is not right that anyone should be driven from their home, whether it be one person or a million people - it doesn't make it any less 'not right' for one side to bring this about if less people are affected. And doesn't make it 'more unjust' if more people are affected.

I just don't get the 'you forced more out than we did' argument put forward as justification or proof of innocence or whatever.

In the same way, someone who lost close family is not going to be more upset about it if 200 thousand other people did, or less upset about it if 40,000 other people did.

Agreed but surely timing matters. They started it as it were. Drove thousands of people from their home in 63, long before 74, not that I am trying one upmanship. I accept that GC were also driven from their homes but TC not only were in far greater numbers but ended up in suffocating enclaves with the GCs suffocating them till 74.
Make that what you will; they don't shine like a white knight in shining armor whichever way you look at it.

respect and dignity...

a demonstration of our Principals, that no side has superior rights, and that we stand united in defending this right.

define Bicommunal; i say it is an identity of anyone: as an Individual, as a Person. as a Person, allow for National Assemblies. as Individuals, through a State, let us define the Universal qualities which make us Human.

enclaves don't have to suffocate, and quite frankly YFred the horror, yours and mine has no value unless we rise above the fear which we use to resist change. enclaves don't have to be only "Turkish" or only "Greek", the services they provide will be the acts of one National Assembly or the other (assuming there are only two). enclaves allow for the Displaced to return as communities, truly there is no better way for us to recognise the harm these victims suffered. enclaves will allow for those who will be displaced, a home. enclaves provide for us a diversity of populations within a national identity, whose association, expression, and movement makes accessible to the whole population more choices. Bizonal is not a dirty word either.

...please read my manifesto.

[YFred]

No side has superior rights.

I am puzzled by what seem to be constant arguments (or slanging matches) on here trying to prove who is in the right and who is in the wrong (or who is more right, or more wrong) which are based on who had the greatest number of their people 'driven out' or 'displaced'.

It is not right that anyone should be driven from their home, whether it be one person or a million people - it doesn't make it any less 'not right' for one side to bring this about if less people are affected. And doesn't make it 'more unjust' if more people are affected.

I just don't get the 'you forced more out than we did' argument put forward as justification or proof of innocence or whatever.

In the same way, someone who lost close family is not going to be more upset about it if 200 thousand other people did, or less upset about it if 40,000 other people did.

Agreed but surely timing matters. They started it as it were. Drove thousands of people from their home in 63, long before 74, not that I am trying one upmanship. I accept that GC were also driven from their homes but TC not only were in far greater numbers but ended up in suffocating enclaves with the GCs suffocating them till 74.
Make that what you will; they don't shine like a white knight in shining armor whichever way you look at it.

respect and dignity...

a demonstration of our Principals, that no side has superior rights, and that we stand united in defending this right.

define Bicommunal; i say it is an identity of anyone: as an Individual, as a Person. as a Person, allow for National Assemblies. as Individuals, through a State, let us define the Universal qualities which make us Human.

enclaves don't have to suffocate, and quite frankly YFred the horror, yours and mine has no value unless we rise above the fear which we use to resist change. enclaves don't have to be only "Turkish" or only "Greek", the services they provide will be the acts of one National Assembly or the other (assuming there are only two). enclaves allow for the Displaced to return as communities, truly there is no better way for us to recognise the harm these victims suffered. enclaves will allow for those who will be displaced, a home. enclaves provide for us a diversity of populations within a national identity, whose association, expression, and movement makes accessible to the whole population more choices. Bizonal is not a dirty word either.

...please read my manifesto.

Agreed. One of these days I will read that thing. Put a link to it on here will you?

[repulsewarrior]

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=16772

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=19022

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=15874

http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=26478

[Oracle]

Roll on 35 - 47 - 55 years what happened happened. Mistakes were made on both sides, this is not an argument that can be won as neither side as you can't judge one person's grief or loss vs another person's - the issues of possessions, rights, lives, suffering etc. are all subjective feelings that cannot be quantified and weighed.

Wise people learn from their experiences, this is why I cannot for the life of me understand how those people that have 5,000, 10,000, 20,000+ posts continue to harp on about the same rubbish knowing full well that there is no final right answer to who was right and who was wrong.

1 says you started it the other says you did.
1 says you ruined our perfect lives the other says you ruined our perfect lives.
1 says you stole my land the other says you stole my land.
1 says you committed murder and terrorism the other responds the same.

All have valid arguments - but bottom line nothing is resolved.

Q. Do people actually learn much from this forum considering the time and effort that they put into it?

It'll probably kill you when you find out the Turk-TC side is 100% wrong!

[BirKibrisli]

Roll on 35 - 47 - 55 years what happened happened. Mistakes were made on both sides, this is not an argument that can be won as neither side as you can't judge one person's grief or loss vs another person's - the issues of possessions, rights, lives, suffering etc. are all subjective feelings that cannot be quantified and weighed.

Wise people learn from their experiences, this is why I cannot for the life of me understand how those people that have 5,000, 10,000, 20,000+ posts continue to harp on about the same rubbish knowing full well that there is no final right answer to who was right and who was wrong.

1 says you started it the other says you did.
1 says you ruined our perfect lives the other says you ruined our perfect lives.
1 says you stole my land the other says you stole my land.
1 says you committed murder and terrorism the other responds the same.

All have valid arguments - but bottom line nothing is resolved.

Q. Do people actually learn much from this forum considering the time and effort that they put into it?

It'll probably kill you when you find out the Turk-TC side is 100% wrong!

Wrong...It won't kill Acikgoz because he already knows his side shares some of the blame...But it might kill you when you find out your side is ,at least,75 % guilty...

[Oracle]

Roll on 35 - 47 - 55 years what happened happened. Mistakes were made on both sides, this is not an argument that can be won as neither side as you can't judge one person's grief or loss vs another person's - the issues of possessions, rights, lives, suffering etc. are all subjective feelings that cannot be quantified and weighed.

Wise people learn from their experiences, this is why I cannot for the life of me understand how those people that have 5,000, 10,000, 20,000+ posts continue to harp on about the same rubbish knowing full well that there is no final right answer to who was right and who was wrong.

1 says you started it the other says you did.
1 says you ruined our perfect lives the other says you ruined our perfect lives.
1 says you stole my land the other says you stole my land.
1 says you committed murder and terrorism the other responds the same.

All have valid arguments - but bottom line nothing is resolved.

Q. Do people actually learn much from this forum considering the time and effort that they put into it?

It'll probably kill you when you find out the Turk-TC side is 100% wrong!

Wrong...It won't kill Acikgoz because he already knows his side shares some of the blame...But it might kill you when you find out your side is ,at least,75 % guilty...

So far, even your own Turk-TCs have disputed your figures, Bir, so why should I care what numbers you invent? The only thing we are "guilty" of is existing, according to your Turkish Expansionism.

[Acikgoz]

It'll probably kill you when you find out the Turk-TC side is 100% wrong!

"A psychopath, once confronted with what he actually desires in life but cannot have, can only destroy it or else it will destroy him."

You continue to demonstrate your damaged psychopathic mind.

Most people don't think in your way. Thankfully my life is not defined by the Cyprus problem nor is my mind incapable of listening and accepting other ideas. If I see evidence to the contrary of my beliefs then I am aware of a need to process that evidence and modify my beliefs. It is a process most people have which allows us to grow as productive human beings - the progression of the thinking man.