Cyprus-Forum.com

[EricSeans]

Cuba survived on Soviet handouts for decades but in recent years has learned to be more self-sufficient.

"TRNC" survived on Turkish handouts for decades and has yet to learn how to be self-sufficient.

Cuba's a great place to visit, though, if you want a bit more than sun, sea and sand.

Yeah, know what you mean... I always travelled alone in Cuba... why would anyone bring sand to the beach...

The rum is pure, best cigars, good honest food but above all... the local people are very friendly. Spectacular folklore dancing with traditional costumes, feathers... a great place to be. Maybe I should change my mind & retire in Cuba in lieu of Cyprus.

A good number of Canucks enjoying themselves where the Yanks fear to tread. Loads of hassle trying to get around Havana independently given how much the official money was worth there so had to give out a few dollars. True about the cigars and rum but found the food like school dinners.

[Oracle]

The essence of this thread is to demonstrate current & future consequences in "trnc" as it is now and in the future. Many TCs believe, if things stay as they are now, they will be better off than with a solution. I read this, all over the pages of CF, don't you? Only a small fraction of them are willing to compromise BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHAT'S COMING IF THEY DON'T.

Cuba is not far off than "trnc". The embargo, imposed by the US & others is relentless. Cuban people are poor and desperate. Add on top the dictatorship of Fidel Castro who oppresses the population and there you have it. Hell on earth.

The embargo of Cuba is due to the dictatorship, the embargo of "trnc" is due to illegal occupation, but AN EMBARGO IS AN EMBARGO, any which way you slice it. The reasons to why these embargoes are enforced are irrelevant. The consequences are.

I chose Cuba as an example because I was there several times and know first hand what exactly is going on over there. I had extensive discussions with local ordinary Cubans, many of them well educated. Unlike what you read on the internet, ALL Cubans want out. They had more than enough of this situation. They cannot find or buy any product or service we have for granted. Imports are strictly controlled and destined for the selected few(Castro's) supporters but the general population gets nothing. The embargo is working.

The embargo of "trnc" works too. Frustration and despair has set in to the lives of the TCs. It's supposed to, and it does.

These are the similarities of the 2 states in comparison. If you wish, you can investigate other countries currently under embargo. Don't be surprised to discovered what I discover in Cuba.

You complete loony.

There are major differences beyond an embargo on Cuba by the US and a perceived embargo on an illegally occupied region, the "trnc" -- pleased to see you react to using the quotes when your identity is in jeopardy!

The fact you fail to distinguish this fundamental principle is proof you are either too stupid to be a GC or basically a shit stirring Turk!

[Hatter]

...it is telling, the "Turk" accusation, from, "my fellow TC", it shows a "Greekness" rather than a willful recognition that this island is it's People.

You should read the comments in this thread more carefully before you come out with arbitrary statements like that.
Firstly, it was a reasonable question to ask someone who is purporting to be GC and who refers to "my fellow TCs" if he is a TC. BTW, not buying the suggestion that GCs refer to TCs as their "fellow TCs" (they can, and often do, refer to TCs as their "fellow countrymen" but not as their "fellow TCs" - it would be akin to, for example, an English person referring to the Welsh as his/her fellow Welshmen).

Secondly, there is no antithesis between "Greekness" and a recognition that the island is it's People.

Thirdly, what is telling is the attempts by some individuals to promote Turkey's agenda (at the expense of the people of Cyprus, both TCs and GCs) and in the belief that their attempts would carry more weight, they purport to be GC when they are not (there is, of course another possible explanation: stupidity).

...whatever the distinction among the population, it should not matter. "Turks Out of Cyprus", is not exclusive to those living in the south, very little is done by the same "Greeks" to nurture the same sentiment which brews among Cypriots who live under the same subjugation in the north.

...something worth thinking about.

I agree that the distinction between the population should not matter. What should and does matter are the behaviours and opinions. Also agreed, that "Turks out of Cyprus" is not exclusive to those "living in the south". I know that many of the TCs living in the north share the same sentiment, but it is equally true that many have chosen to collaborate with the regime in the north. Be that as it may, here is an opportunity for that sentiment to be articulated, against the comments made by a purveyor of Turkey's agenda.

[SKI-preo]

As fascinating as comparing a bicycle with a combine harvester…

Let’s see now, they both have…

1. Wheels.
2. A steering mechanism.
3. A driver.

I think you should report the bloke who sold you a drivers licence for a bicycle to the authorities.

[kurupetos]

Cuba survived on Soviet handouts for decades but in recent years has learned to be more self-sufficient.

"TRNC" survived on Turkish handouts for decades and has yet to learn how to be self-sufficient.

Cuba's a great place to visit, though, if you want a bit more than sun, sea and sand.

Yeah, know what you mean... I always travelled alone in Cuba... why would anyone bring sand to the beach...

The rum is pure, best cigars, good honest food but above all... the local people are very friendly. Spectacular folklore dancing with traditional costumes, feathers... a great place to be. Maybe I should change my mind & retire in Cuba in lieu of Cyprus.

Yes, I think you should.

[kurupetos]

President Christofias recently suggested the RoC should open an embassy in Cuba. According to georgios100 logic (if any ), the RoC should consider opening an embassy in the "trnc".

[repulsewarrior]

i too am taking the same opportunity, hatter. collaborators are not the exclusive domain of one side or the other. and it is even more difficult for Cypriots who are turcophone, given that the legitimate government is not entirely credible as their representative. a so called national anthem that is clearly "Greek" does not help, the lack of activism on this issue is another.

"fellow TC"; now that you've described your observations, its meaning does seem odd, more like a slip of the tongue, but the sentiment i think cannot be mistaken. i do not know georgios, it is hard though to imagine that one expects to find a "Turkish" propagandist behind the words. clearly, turcophones are a long way behind the grecophones who by comparison are progressive and much more able. georgios' post demonstrates this most adequately, and i would say that the population in the south can be compared to Cuba as well. Cubans are also progressive. although they are not so fortunate politically yet, i would hope that they can secure their identity in a State that is not the American assimilation Castro's antagonists hope for.

if grecophones in Cyprus were to visit the north for some of their needs, purchasing them from turcophones who are like them, Cypriots, this would go a long way. it is not possible, it seems for our leaders to do "it" for us; confidence must be developed through dialogue.

...in my Cyprus, there are more than two National Assemblies, in my Cyprus enclaves identified as grecophone or turcophone spot the island, securing our freedom of movement, our right to free association and an expression of our desire to add diversity to the vital nature of our own respective ethnicities; allowing for settlers to be displaced to homes from houses, allowing for people to return as communities, beyond their individual rights. in my cyprus we vote as citizens exactly the same way, led by a President who has won this right with a majority in a house whose seats are equally divided. in my cyprus the population is 12 million 200 years from now, and i adapt my thinking back from there. i am Greek, and i feel lucky learning what Greeks did, but i am Cypriot, and this island means i have roots which are not "just" Greek; for that i am much richer.

anyway hatter, please read my manifesto it's there under solutions, neither "Greek" or "Turk" but specifically designed to allow the different ethno-spheres to sustain themselves as Persons, Bicommunally, because as Individuals they are united to support the Universal Principals that make us Human.

[repulsewarrior]

...i think it is wise to open an embassy in Cuba. it may antagonise the American Government today, but they will need the support of Canada for example, and Cyprus, when there are changes to this position. also i find it amazing that Castro built a Greek Orthodox Church in Cuba at his own expense. his regard for Makarios as a Statesman, and his regard for Grivas as a fighter are well known, and this affinity extends to the need for both to end the subjugation which comes from the interlocution of much larger players.

[Oracle]

I chose Cuba as an example because I was there several times and know first hand what exactly is going on over there.

By the same token, I take it that means you know "first hand" what is going on in the "trnc" -- all the way from Canada!

[georgios100]

Cuba survived on Soviet handouts for decades but in recent years has learned to be more self-sufficient.

"TRNC" survived on Turkish handouts for decades and has yet to learn how to be self-sufficient.

Cuba's a great place to visit, though, if you want a bit more than sun, sea and sand.

Yeah, know what you mean... I always travelled alone in Cuba... why would anyone bring sand to the beach...

The rum is pure, best cigars, good honest food but above all... the local people are very friendly. Spectacular folklore dancing with traditional costumes, feathers... a great place to be. Maybe I should change my mind & retire in Cuba in lieu of Cyprus.

A good number of Canucks enjoying themselves where the Yanks fear to tread. Loads of hassle trying to get around Havana independently given how much the official money was worth there so had to give out a few dollars. True about the cigars and rum but found the food like school dinners.

Lately, some Americans fly to Canadian cities first and then take a flight to Cuba risking a Cuban entry stamp on their passports...

Sounds like you've been there. Local food is much better than hotel food. I took many trips outside my hotel in Varadero, to the countryside. My driver was, of course Cuban, for safety reasons. I had meals in unmarked "restaurants", typically at the back yards of private homes. There were a couple of tables with old chairs shaded by fruit trees...chickens wondering about. The meals were homemade, the recipes strictly local dishes. Rum & wine as good as it gets. One can relate to the Cuban people in this manner and discover true Cuba. Unlike what others think, I say this: If you have not been there, you don't know what's happening there.

Of course, very few tourists dare to venture outside their resorts. I don't blame them. What I do is risky but I like the adventure...