Cyprus-Forum.com

[Gasman]

Greek finance minister, George Papaconstantinou, announced that four of the country's largest lenders had asked for government support to offset the mass exodus of funds.

Another bluddy liar then! Their finance minister.

The cash exodus has infuriated ordinary Greeks, who have seen their incomes slashed by up to 30%. With the country embroiled in its first recession in 15 years and the effects of the socialist government's draconian austerity package beginning to be felt, the empty cafes, restaurants and shops are redolent of a place starved of cash – a far cry from the posh streets of London where Greece's rich are flocking to in a determined effort to escape the crisis lapping the shores of their own country.

And more bluddy idiots (ordinary Greeks) who have 'fallen for it' and become infuriated.

[Paphitis]

Oh dear me! That got you didn't it?

No. It didn't 'get me' - it obviously got the financial journalists who wrote the article. I was just pasting from it.

It has, apparently, 'got' hundreds more of them too. Look for yourself.

Is this just the usual silly 'never make any negative points about Greece' stuff? Because it is getting a bit surreal!

You counter ANY bad news from there and pooh pooh it as if it is perfectly normal 'business as usual'.

So, why ARE they going cap in hand to the EU and the IMF? Is it all lies about their tax evasion? If so, their own prime minister is lying. Those figures are coming out of Greece, about how few of them declare any healthy income.

Is it all lies about their 14 or more paydays a year?

You provided no link. Furthermore, most of us have spent far more time in Greece than you, hAve family there, and know full well what is going on.

Many of the articles you have illustrated are false! And Nikitas has told you so many times!

[Paphitis]

Greek finance minister, George Papaconstantinou, announced that four of the country's largest lenders had asked for government support to offset the mass exodus of funds.

Another bluddy liar then! Their finance minister.

The cash exodus has infuriated ordinary Greeks, who have seen their incomes slashed by up to 30%. With the country embroiled in its first recession in 15 years and the effects of the socialist government's draconian austerity package beginning to be felt, the empty cafes, restaurants and shops are redolent of a place starved of cash – a far cry from the posh streets of London where Greece's rich are flocking to in a determined effort to escape the crisis lapping the shores of their own country.

And more bluddy idiots (ordinary Greeks) who have 'fallen for it' and become infuriated.

That's capitalism dear!

Money has no nationality and recognizes no borders!

As long as the money is taxed, it is really no one's business what people do with their money.

99% of this money is legitimate!

[Paphitis]

I don't need to prove anything. I am raising points that I am reading in articles relating to the CURRENT crisis in Greece.

But I will leave you to it now. You seem convinced that there is no crisis, (not sure how you explain the rioting away - but then I suppose it is true that they are ALWAYS rioting in Greece) so that's nothing unusual either.

You seem to be saying that they have NO problems. Perhaps you should contact their PM and tell him to hold off on the EU and IMF loans (and not to believe everything he reads) as he is probably over- reacting to stuff he is reading too.

I suppose the estimated 2bn worth of damage they did during the last round of big riots is just an exaggeration too? And that the three recent deaths are wildly exaggerated?

I would be interested to read what YOU think is going on in Greece - if they have no people trying to avoid tax, no fat cat govt crooks, no dissidents, no one trying to get out while the going is good. Wonderful education system (they've rioted about that too) no unemployment (obviously all lies about the high unemployment there). Excellent balance of trade.

What on earth have they got to riot about?

And I am exposing your points for what they are, since they don't hold water.

The ASE Index declined from 2,600 points to 1630 points, which means that many Greeks have cashed up. The value of these shares would be in the Billions. And this money is taxed. This money has to go somewhere, and due to the uncertainty, many Greeks have decided to transfer these funds overseas.

[Nikitas]

"Greeks, who have seen their incomes slashed by up to 30%."

The journalist who wrote this and his editor both ought to be fired from their jobs. What was slashed by 30 per cent was the HOLIDAY pay, and CHRISTMAS supplement of CIVIL SERVANTS. These are known in Greece as the 13th and 14th salaries, from these two payments a 30 per cent deduction was made and only for public sector employees.

Things are not what they apper to be on TV, or radio or newspapers.

[Nikitas]

"Interesting to note that one of the bigger imports to Greece is luxury boats".

Think, now. In a country where a major industry is the chartering of boats to visitors this is not an unlikely import, is it now!

As for private use, well this is not such a bad thing. Owning an officially imported and registered boat immediately puts the owner in a high tax bracket and the government can soak him for what he is worth!

[Nikitas]

"I would be interested to read what YOU think is going on in Greece "

My take as a quasi foreigner (GC) living and working in Greece for 35 years is this:

The Greeks are still living in an Ottoman version of reality when an intermediary class interposed itself between the conqueror and the population. In those days were the Kotzmbasides, nowdays it is the civil servants who are there to tell the politicians what policies can and cannot be implemented and the population what they can do. You have to see that expression of glee on a Greek buraucrat's face when he tells you "it cannot be done" to fully understand what I mean.

These people managed to make themselves indispensable to the politicians, while possessing no significant talent or ability which explains the state of the country now. For a brief period, just before and during the Olympics Greeks saw what could be accomplished when this intermediary class was temporarily pushed aside. Greeks now not only can judge but they can also compare, ie the private metro system with the older state run underground, the private toll roads with the state run pothole highways.

Secondly, the younger generation who are far more capable than the previous one, can no longer take the "system" where the secure jobs were those of the civil service because of guranteed tenure and comparatively early pension.

The intermediaries and the politicians form a circular kind of feedback loop which absorbs money and energy. Civil service jobs, thousands of them, are used to reward poltical hangers-on, using state money and when that is not enough by using loans which lead to deficits. No one stole the money. It was squandered on this loop system.

It is obvious that if the GDP is 340 billion under the current system, it will be much higher than that when the dinosaurs are put out to grass. If things were different the whole of the Greek merchant fleet would base its operations in Greece and not in more business friendly locations like Cyprus and London.

This is what is basically wrong and the financial crisis, which is not an exclusively Greek phenomenon, was a mere catalyst. The protest would have happened regardless.

Turkey has had the same problems. But they realised about ten years ago that private creativity is not such a bad thing. It takes a week to legally setup and be running a business in Turkey. Which also means a week to start hiring people, and create jobs. It takes months to do the same in Greece and even then you are not completely legal, because it is impossible to fulfill all the conflicting demands of the buraucracy. Go to an international trade fair and Turkey will have a state sponsored section featuring dozens of private businesses. Compare it to the paltry Greek presence, if there is one, and you can come to your own conclusions.

The hope is that the crisis will be a backbreaker for the dinosaurs, that is the current topic in most Greek media, not the riots or the financial hardship, we are used to that stuff.

[Nikitas]

As for money leaving the country, the European Central Bank said that about 7 billion was moved from Greece to other jurisdictions in the last month. The total deposits of Greek banks are approximately 250 billion. The majority seem to be voting with their bank accounts and staying put.