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WORK TO FORM TRNC NEGOTIATING TEAM CONTINUES

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Pyrpolizer » Sun May 09, 2010 12:24 pm

YFred wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
YFred wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:Yep the ancient Greeks were the FIRST to discover EVERYTHING.
Does that mean every Greek today is an astronomer,or a philosopher, or a mathematician, or a chemist or whatever?

Now Fredie, I am really tired of answering your stupid questions. You find someone else to educate you. :razz:

Your ignorance is bliss.

Greeks did not understand the concept of zero. Maths without zero? what kind of mathematicians were they? Greek style I guess. The Zero was staring them in the eye all along, and they missed it.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


In applied mathematics what EXISTS is the infinitesimal not the zero. And guess what the ancient Greeks discovered the Atom because of that.
Any further queries Fredie?

Oh I have one:What did the Turks ever discover? :P :P :P


The Turks discovered the Turkish bath (hamams),Pyro...Not to forget the Turkish delight,Turkish coffee,Yogurt,imam bayildi,sish kebab... :lol:

I am happy two of my favourite forumers are getting on so well,at last... :wink:

On more serious matters,Pyro...I have no idea if the EOKA men were drunk or not when attacking the TC villages...It makes little difference to the end result...But i invite you to think a bit more deeply about the capability of the Turkish soldiers...Those who fought them in Gallipoli and Korea talk very highly of them...Not that it maters any more anyway...These days wars are very technological and the playing fields are much more level...

And as to climbing fig trees,I am afraid Pyro is right,Yfred...I used to climb them too as a child...The middle where the trunk is is clear and there is plenty of room for small cildren to manouver...I even climbed a few last year on a Greek island,just to bring back my childhood memories...Perhaps you are thinking of different types of fig trees where there is no room for climbing from the thin branches and small trunks... :?

Perhaps the fig trees of Linobambakis are itchier than the rest of the fig family. I just don't ever remember anybody ever climbing them. Certainly not in sunny Richmond upon Thames.

Bir, war cannot be won by technology as recent American wars have shown. You still need the brave soldier to go out there and win the heart and mind of the populations. Shooting from a distance only kills innocent people and drives them to join the war.

There are three races that are brave in war today. One is Gurkas, the second is Sikghs and the third is Turkallos. The whole world accept that except our GC cousins in the southern lands.


Sure. Like this:


Image

and this:



Image
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Postby YFred » Sun May 09, 2010 12:59 pm

Have you seen the picture of what the lovely roc NG did in Kofunye in 67?
Damn those turks they get everywhere?
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Sun May 09, 2010 1:35 pm

YFred wrote:Have you seen the picture of what the lovely roc NG did in Kofunye in 67?
Damn those turks they get everywhere?


You were the one who was talking for the brave Turkallo, not me
As for the events of Kofinu my impression is that not only your Turkallo are not brave they are schizos on top of it:

A turning point in the history of Cyprus: The events of Kofinou… (*)
Sevgul Uludag

Back in 1967, tension was growing in the Ayios Theodoros (Aytotoro/Boğaziçi)-Kofinou(Köfünye/Geçitkale) area… The crazy Turkish commander whose name was `Chetin` or `Ringo` according to Turkish Cypriots and `Mehmet` according to the UN, was imposing policies that would lead to conflict…

The commander must have been really crazy or did he have orders to create a provocative atmosphere? He was giving orders to cut the Nicosia-Limassol road, to block entrance to the Ayios Theodoros(Aytotoro/Boğaziçi) village, to shoot at passing cars… People were afraid of him: He had banned old Turkish Cypriots from speaking Greek and were imposing a `military` type of order in the two villages…

He wasn’t just there to provocate the atmosphere and create conflict among the two main communities of the island but also had attacks on the UN soldiers as well. Once, he even beat up a UN soldier in front of a lot of people and often, the villagers remember, he sent the people to demonstrate in front of the UN camp, so that there would be more conflict!

He had replaced another Turkish commander who was killed by some Turkish Cypriots from Kofinou (Köfünye/Geçitkale) village. Gunay, who had banned provocations among the Turkish Cypriots and Greek Cypriots, apparently did not serve the `cause` at that time…

`You will not rob the houses of Greek Cypriots! You will not burn their fields!` he was saying… One night, he was trapped in the cinema of the village and shot, getting wounded and he died on the way to the Limassol hospital… According to the villagers, he’s still buried in the yard of the hospital… So the crazy commander had come to replace him and brew trouble in the area…

Ismail Hamit was barely a young boy back in those times… He was from Aytotoro/Boğaziçi (Ayios Theodoros) village and was one of the guards manning the makeshift barricade created in order to block the road going into the village… `We were about 100 soldiers` he remembers… `And there were around 10 points where we were on the lookout.` They had not got out of the village for some years, in fear of being killed…

`You wouldn’t know but anything could happen… People could go missing on the road so we didn’t leave the village…`

The conflict in Ayios Theodoros (Aytotoro/Boğaziçi) had started back in 1964… Minor incidents would be interpreted as `ethnic` and people would get worked up…

`Once, one Turkish Cypriot had said something to a Greek Cypriot woman, he had verbally harassed her and the Greek Cypriot police took him for questioning… In retaliation, we took a busload of Greek Cypriots for questioning!… They would shoot and kill a Turkish Cypriot and in return we would shoot a Greek Cypriot… But who were those killed? They would be old people, a 70 or 80 year old man, grazing his sheep in the fields… Things like this…`

Turkish Cypriots, under the command of `Chetin`, the commander from Turkey, wouldn’t allow police patrols to pass into the village… The UN was trying to escort the passage of the police and tension was building up… The Greek Cypriot officials were afraid that a `Turkish Cypriot enclave` was being created and wanted to stop this…

So on the 15th of November 1967, General Grivas decided to attack the two villages, Ayios Theodoros and Kofinou (Boğaziçi and Geçitkale)… One night before, he had brought troops and army vehicles to surround the villages. The commandos were ready and their commander from Greece told them, `Later, we will be blamed for making a massacre… But we will go in the village and we will not leave even a lame chicken alive!` he said… Marios Thembriotis was one of the commandoes who were attacking the village… He was from Paphos and was doing his military service as a young boy back in 1967…

`We entered the village` he remembers where 22 Turkish Cypriots were killed… `These were the people who did not escape or could not escape… There were some old people or sick people who could not get up… Those who didn’t escape were women and kids and old people… The commandos started destroying some houses, burning some down and stealing jewellery…`

Ali Gurkan was only 10 years old back in those days…

`We had toy guns that we had made out of wood… We would be playing in the street… On the 15th of November, we were again playing in the street in the afternoon… But when the bombs started falling, we realized that this wasn’t a game! We went into the house to hide, together with our neighbours…`

The assault on Kofinou (Köfünye/Geçitkale), their being taken prisoner and spending the night in a school at Skorino would mark him for life… He would never forget the smell which he thought was burning wood… In fact, it was an old man, sat on fire by the commandos and who died burning… They were arrested and were being taken away from the village and he remembers this smell and the site of something burning on the floor…

`One of the soldiers went and closed the doors so we would not see… I did not realize that it was a human being burning… I thought it was wood…`

Later he would be playing in the street where the dead bodies of Turkish Cypriots were collected in a half-construction site… He remembers the bodies laid out on the floor and a woman coming to ask him, if he had seen his son…

`Go and check those over there, I told her… I was just a child and couldn’t think at the time… She went and found her son and came out shouting and crying…`

Back in Ayios Theodoros (Aytotoro/Boğaziçi), Ismail Hamit was in a house when the attacks took place…

`We were four people… I saw how two of them were shot and killed… I could not sleep at night for a long time… No human being should see the killing of another human being… The Greek Cypriot soldiers told us: You think you have become men to block this road?`

He spent 10 years of his life as a soldier in those times… Now looking back he says, `Who wants to live the things we lived through? I wish we did not experience the things we did in those times…`

The commandos stayed till 4 o’clock in the morning and then Marios remembers, `We started to run!` Turkey had threatened to intervene and some Turkish planes flew over Nicosia… Ismail wonders, `Why did they wait so long to fly over?`

Later things would change on the island: it was as though the `ruling powers` had decided to reshuffle and redistribute the cards… Greek troops, together with Grivas would leave the island… Denktash, who was living in Ankara, would return to Cyprus. Intercommunal negotiations would start in Beirut between Denktash and Clerides… A kind of `normalization` would begin on the island, to last until 1974… At the end of 1967, the Turkish side would declare `The Temporary Turkish Administration`, like a dress rehearsal of the declaration of a separate state… According to the memories of the Turkish ambassador of the time, Ercument Yavuzalp, these results were good for Turkey and `The removal of the 10 thousand Greek soldiers from Cyprus would help Turkey later, in 1974, during the military operation…`

The events of Kofinou (Köfünye/Boğaziçi) are still part of the puzzle we’re trying to solve because those responsible for the provocations and the attack have not spoken up. No one has demanded accounts from those responsible except for groups like `The Workers Democracy` in the southern part of the island who published a detailed report back in 1991… But those who have given the orders to provocate trouble or to attack these villages are still free since our communities are not demanding to know why these events have happened the way they have happened. These are the missing parts of our common history in Cyprus, the way we have written it, the way we have shaped it up. With a lot of blood and tears, still waiting to be washed away… And only if we claim our common history with all its atrocities and all its mistakes no matter where it came from, perhaps we can create some understanding about what really happened on this island… Otherwise the puzzle would remain for each to interpret according to its own interests and needs, but not according to the common interests of the two main communities of our island…

(*) Article published in the CYPRUS TODAY on the 23rd of July 2005 and in ALITHIA on the 24th of July 2005.

copyleft (c) 2001-05 hamamboculeri.org
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Postby Pyrpolizer » Sun May 09, 2010 1:39 pm

As you can see fredie the article AGREES COMPLETELY with what you said about the Turkallo:
You said

You still need the brave soldier to go out there and win the heart and mind of the populations.

Both your "brave" Turkallo won the hearts and minds of the TCs in kofinou

:P :P :P :P
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Postby YFred » Mon May 10, 2010 12:40 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:As you can see fredie the article AGREES COMPLETELY with what you said about the Turkallo:
You said

You still need the brave soldier to go out there and win the heart and mind of the populations.

Both your "brave" Turkallo won the hearts and minds of the TCs in kofinou

:P :P :P :P

They loved them to death. You got it all wrong mate.
We appreciate the fact that you guys went in and saved them from the turkallo cousins. Even when your braves burned on of the dissabled TCs.
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Postby denizaksulu » Mon May 10, 2010 1:01 pm

Pyrpolizer wrote:As you can see fredie the article AGREES COMPLETELY with what you said about the Turkallo:
You said

You still need the brave soldier to go out there and win the heart and mind of the populations.

Both your "brave" Turkallo won the hearts and minds of the TCs in kofinou

:P :P :P :P



It would be a good idea for names to be named.

But those killed were defending their village from encirclement and NG attack. Why did the old man, Mehmet Emin Arap (a negro descendat) have to be burnt to death. Was it a racist thing? They were the sons of their mothers and it should not have come to this. I went to school with most of those killed. It still leaves a bitter taste in ones mouth. I am sure many mothers lost their family members during internecine fighting. Oh why, oh why? Bloody politicians. Go to hell, all of them. :twisted:
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Postby YFred » Mon May 10, 2010 1:09 pm

denizaksulu wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:As you can see fredie the article AGREES COMPLETELY with what you said about the Turkallo:
You said

You still need the brave soldier to go out there and win the heart and mind of the populations.

Both your "brave" Turkallo won the hearts and minds of the TCs in kofinou

:P :P :P :P



It would be a good idea for names to be named.

But those killed were defending their village from encirclement and NG attack. Why did the old man, Mehmet Emin Arap (a negro descendat) have to be burnt to death. Was it a racist thing? They were the sons of their mothers and it should not have come to this. I went to school with most of those killed. It still leaves a bitter taste in ones mouth. I am sure many mothers lost their family members during internecine fighting. Oh why, oh why? Bloody politicians. Go to hell, all of them. :twisted:

Perhaps Pyro can answer that one?
Was the closing of the road worth kiling of 27 innocent TCs. If they did not feel threatened would they close the road.
As far as I am aware, no GC would want to venture into any of the encles.
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Postby Paphitis » Mon May 10, 2010 1:41 pm

BirKibrisli wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
YFred wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:Yep the ancient Greeks were the FIRST to discover EVERYTHING.
Does that mean every Greek today is an astronomer,or a philosopher, or a mathematician, or a chemist or whatever?

Now Fredie, I am really tired of answering your stupid questions. You find someone else to educate you. :razz:

Your ignorance is bliss.

Greeks did not understand the concept of zero. Maths without zero? what kind of mathematicians were they? Greek style I guess. The Zero was staring them in the eye all along, and they missed it.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


In applied mathematics what EXISTS is the infinitesimal not the zero. And guess what the ancient Greeks discovered the Atom because of that.
Any further queries Fredie?

Oh I have one:What did the Turks ever discover? :P :P :P


The Turks discovered the Turkish bath (hamams),Pyro...Not to forget the Turkish delight,Turkish coffee,Yogurt,imam bayildi,sish kebab... :lol:

I am happy two of my favourite forumers are getting on so well,at last... :wink:

On more serious matters,Pyro...I have no idea if the EOKA men were drunk or not when attacking the TC villages...It makes little difference to the end result...But i invite you to think a bit more deeply about the capability of the Turkish soldiers...Those who fought them in Gallipoli and Korea talk very highly of them...Not that it maters any more anyway...These days wars are very technological and the playing fields are much more level...

And as to climbing fig trees,I am afraid Pyro is right,Yfred...I used to climb them too as a child...The middle where the trunk is is clear and there is plenty of room for small cildren to manouver...I even climbed a few last year on a Greek island,just to bring back my childhood memories...Perhaps you are thinking of different types of fig trees where there is no room for climbing from the thin branches and small trunks... :?


Those that fought against the Turks speak highly of Turkish Officers, in particular Ataturd. Rarely have they spoken highly of Turkish soldiers.
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Postby denizaksulu » Mon May 10, 2010 1:42 pm

YFred wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:As you can see fredie the article AGREES COMPLETELY with what you said about the Turkallo:
You said

You still need the brave soldier to go out there and win the heart and mind of the populations.

Both your "brave" Turkallo won the hearts and minds of the TCs in kofinou

:P :P :P :P



It would be a good idea for names to be named.

But those killed were defending their village from encirclement and NG attack. Why did the old man, Mehmet Emin Arap (a negro descendat) have to be burnt to death. Was it a racist thing? They were the sons of their mothers and it should not have come to this. I went to school with most of those killed. It still leaves a bitter taste in ones mouth. I am sure many mothers lost their family members during internecine fighting. Oh why, oh why? Bloody politicians. Go to hell, all of them. :twisted:

Perhaps Pyro can answer that one?
Was the closing of the road worth kiling of 27 innocent TCs. If they did not feel threatened would they close the road.
As far as I am aware, no GC would want to venture into any of the encles.



There was a by-pass, built in 1958. They had armed posts, like the NG had armed troops all over the island. What the RoC wanted was the patrolling inside the village which was NOT acceptable. The why's or reasons are blatantly obvious. But the politicians failed big time. Grivas just wanted another notch on his gun.
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Postby denizaksulu » Mon May 10, 2010 1:45 pm

Paphitis wrote:
BirKibrisli wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:
YFred wrote:
Pyrpolizer wrote:Yep the ancient Greeks were the FIRST to discover EVERYTHING.
Does that mean every Greek today is an astronomer,or a philosopher, or a mathematician, or a chemist or whatever?

Now Fredie, I am really tired of answering your stupid questions. You find someone else to educate you. :razz:

Your ignorance is bliss.

Greeks did not understand the concept of zero. Maths without zero? what kind of mathematicians were they? Greek style I guess. The Zero was staring them in the eye all along, and they missed it.

:lol: :lol: :lol:


In applied mathematics what EXISTS is the infinitesimal not the zero. And guess what the ancient Greeks discovered the Atom because of that.
Any further queries Fredie?

Oh I have one:What did the Turks ever discover? :P :P :P


The Turks discovered the Turkish bath (hamams),Pyro...Not to forget the Turkish delight,Turkish coffee,Yogurt,imam bayildi,sish kebab... :lol:

I am happy two of my favourite forumers are getting on so well,at last... :wink:

On more serious matters,Pyro...I have no idea if the EOKA men were drunk or not when attacking the TC villages...It makes little difference to the end result...But i invite you to think a bit more deeply about the capability of the Turkish soldiers...Those who fought them in Gallipoli and Korea talk very highly of them...Not that it maters any more anyway...These days wars are very technological and the playing fields are much more level...

And as to climbing fig trees,I am afraid Pyro is right,Yfred...I used to climb them too as a child...The middle where the trunk is is clear and there is plenty of room for small cildren to manouver...I even climbed a few last year on a Greek island,just to bring back my childhood memories...Perhaps you are thinking of different types of fig trees where there is no room for climbing from the thin branches and small trunks... :?


Those that fought against the Turks speak highly of Turkish Officers, in particular Ataturd. Rarely have they spoken highly of Turkish soldiers.


...and you have just put and end to it Paphitis.
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