Cyprus-Forum.com

[Hatter]

I wonder what the world would be like if everybody returned to their own country of origin? The UK is full also of every nationality you can think of and right now the rich Greeks are flocking in to buy up anything in order to keep their stashed cash!All those African,Asians,Carribeans,Cypriots etc, the Uk would be empty!Bliss we British would really love that but alas it will never happen.

That's very different Beverley. What you are describing with the African, Asian and Caribbean communities in Britain is economic migration. The difference is that Cypriots did not immigrate to the UK for economic reasons but had to flee their homeland because of a CIA backed coup and invasion. Many of them had properties and businesses and did not need to go to Britain. Partly responsible for all this tragedy is Britain (as well as the US) and this is well documented in many history books on Cyprus.

Many UK Cypriots are very actively involved in Cyprus because they do not see their stay as permanent; they simply want their country back. A Dutch, Belgian or Frenchman who lived through war-time Nazi occupation or was a refugee throughout the war can understand that feeling even if you as an insular Brit do not.

Omer, tens of thousands of Cypriots left Cyprus before 1974 for economic reasons. My own father and four of his brothers left for the UK and US in the 1930s to better themselves.

Jerry, the "tens of thousands who left Cyprus before 1974" should be put in the right context. As far as the UK is concerned, and let's face it, London attracted most of the Cypriot emigrants, by the start of WWII, there were 8000 Cypriots in London. In the late fifites, there was a rise in the number of Cypriots emigrating from Cyprus, due to uncertainly on the island, estimated at 4000 for each of the 4 years of EOKA. A sharp rise occurred in the year after independence and about 10000 emigrated to the UK after 1974 (many more went elsewhere), but most of the 1974 immigrants to the UK subsequently returned to Cyprus.

The bulk of the late fifties, early sixties and mid-seventies emigrants were hardly economic migrants. Granted, many emigrated from Cyprus for economic reasons (like your father and uncles) throughout the years, but do you have any evidence to support the "tens of thousands"?

[B25]

I wonder what the world would be like if everybody returned to their own country of origin? The UK is full also of every nationality you can think of and right now the rich Greeks are flocking in to buy up anything in order to keep their stashed cash!All those African,Asians,Carribeans,Cypriots etc, the Uk would be empty!Bliss we British would really love that but alas it will never happen.

That's very different Beverley. What you are describing with the African, Asian and Caribbean communities in Britain is economic migration. The difference is that Cypriots did not immigrate to the UK for economic reasons but had to flee their homeland because of a CIA backed coup and invasion. Many of them had properties and businesses and did not need to go to Britain. Partly responsible for all this tragedy is Britain (as well as the US) and this is well documented in many history books on Cyprus.

Many UK Cypriots are very actively involved in Cyprus because they do not see their stay as permanent; they simply want their country back. A Dutch, Belgian or Frenchman who lived through war-time Nazi occupation or was a refugee throughout the war can understand that feeling even if you as an insular Brit do not.

Omer, tens of thousands of Cypriots left Cyprus before 1974 for economic reasons. My own father and four of his brothers left for the UK and US in the 1930s to better themselves.

Jerry, I have to disagree with you here. The situation in Cyprus during the time your father emigrated is also down to the fact that the cypriot was prevented from prospering under the British rule.

The British had a tight hold on everything here and were milking the country. Thats the real reason many (and I won't say 'tens of thousands') emigrated to get away from that grip.

The ones that went to the UK (can't speak for other countries) found it very difficult and were heavily discriminated against, but managed to get by even with those issues. Many have done very well for themselves and I am proud of these people.

So, let us just get this into context and not make a mountain out of a mole hill.

[Jerry]

I wonder what the world would be like if everybody returned to their own country of origin? The UK is full also of every nationality you can think of and right now the rich Greeks are flocking in to buy up anything in order to keep their stashed cash!All those African,Asians,Carribeans,Cypriots etc, the Uk would be empty!Bliss we British would really love that but alas it will never happen.

That's very different Beverley. What you are describing with the African, Asian and Caribbean communities in Britain is economic migration. The difference is that Cypriots did not immigrate to the UK for economic reasons but had to flee their homeland because of a CIA backed coup and invasion. Many of them had properties and businesses and did not need to go to Britain. Partly responsible for all this tragedy is Britain (as well as the US) and this is well documented in many history books on Cyprus.

Many UK Cypriots are very actively involved in Cyprus because they do not see their stay as permanent; they simply want their country back. A Dutch, Belgian or Frenchman who lived through war-time Nazi occupation or was a refugee throughout the war can understand that feeling even if you as an insular Brit do not.

Omer, tens of thousands of Cypriots left Cyprus before 1974 for economic reasons. My own father and four of his brothers left for the UK and US in the 1930s to better themselves.

Jerry, the "tens of thousands who left Cyprus before 1974" should be put in the right context. As far as the UK is concerned, and let's face it, London attracted most of the Cypriot emigrants, by the start of WWII, there were 8000 Cypriots in London. In the late fifites, there was a rise in the number of Cypriots emigrating from Cyprus, due to uncertainly on the island, estimated at 4000 for each of the 4 years of EOKA. A sharp rise occurred in the year after independence and about 10000 emigrated to the UK after 1974 (many more went elsewhere), but most of the 1974 immigrants to the UK subsequently returned to Cyprus.

The bulk of the late fifties, early sixties and mid-seventies emigrants were hardly economic migrants. Granted, many emigrated from Cyprus for economic reasons (like your father and uncles) throughout the years, but do you have any evidence to support the "tens of thousands"?

I can only speak from my own experience, many of the young men my father employed in the 50s and early 60s (in catering) came to the UK looking for a better life. My father once told me that his parent's income before he left was £50 a year, they were peasant farmers with more land than most. With that in mind I would say he was an economic migrant.

Here are some statistics I found: -

Although there was emigration as early as the 1930s, there is no available data before 1955.
The periods of greatest emigration were 1955-59, the 1960s, and 1974-79, times of political instability and socioeconomic insecurity when future prospects appeared bleak and unpromising. Between 1955 and 1959, the period of anticolonial struggle, 29,000 Cypriots, 5 percent of the population, left the island. In the 1960s, there were periods of economic recession and intercommunal strife, and net emigration has been estimated at about 50,000, or 8.5 percent of the island's 1970 population. Most of these emigrants were young males from rural areas and usually unemployed. Some five percent were factory workers and only 5 percent were university graduates. Britain headed the list of destinations, taking more than 75 percent of the emigrants in 1953-73; another 8 to 10 percent went to Australia, and about 5 percent to North America.
During the early 1970s, economic development, social progress, and relative political stability contributed to a slackening of emigration. At the same time, there was immigration, so that the net immigration was 3,200 in 1970-73. This trend ended with the 1974 invasion. During the 1974-79 period, 51,500 persons left as emigrants, and another 15,000 became temporary workers abroad. The new wave of emigrants had Australia as the most common destination (35 percent), followed by North America, Greece, and Britain. Many professionals and technical workers emigrated, and for the first time more women than men left. By the early 1980s, the government had rebuilt the economy, and the 30 percent unemployment rate of 1974 was replaced by a labor shortage. As a result, only about 2,000 Cypriots emigrated during the years 1980-86, while 2,850 returned to the island.

http://countrystudies.us/cyprus/21.htm

[Hatter]

I wonder what the world would be like if everybody returned to their own country of origin? The UK is full also of every nationality you can think of and right now the rich Greeks are flocking in to buy up anything in order to keep their stashed cash!All those African,Asians,Carribeans,Cypriots etc, the Uk would be empty!Bliss we British would really love that but alas it will never happen.

That's very different Beverley. What you are describing with the African, Asian and Caribbean communities in Britain is economic migration. The difference is that Cypriots did not immigrate to the UK for economic reasons but had to flee their homeland because of a CIA backed coup and invasion. Many of them had properties and businesses and did not need to go to Britain. Partly responsible for all this tragedy is Britain (as well as the US) and this is well documented in many history books on Cyprus.

Many UK Cypriots are very actively involved in Cyprus because they do not see their stay as permanent; they simply want their country back. A Dutch, Belgian or Frenchman who lived through war-time Nazi occupation or was a refugee throughout the war can understand that feeling even if you as an insular Brit do not.

Omer, tens of thousands of Cypriots left Cyprus before 1974 for economic reasons. My own father and four of his brothers left for the UK and US in the 1930s to better themselves.

Jerry, the "tens of thousands who left Cyprus before 1974" should be put in the right context. As far as the UK is concerned, and let's face it, London attracted most of the Cypriot emigrants, by the start of WWII, there were 8000 Cypriots in London. In the late fifites, there was a rise in the number of Cypriots emigrating from Cyprus, due to uncertainly on the island, estimated at 4000 for each of the 4 years of EOKA. A sharp rise occurred in the year after independence and about 10000 emigrated to the UK after 1974 (many more went elsewhere), but most of the 1974 immigrants to the UK subsequently returned to Cyprus.

The bulk of the late fifties, early sixties and mid-seventies emigrants were hardly economic migrants. Granted, many emigrated from Cyprus for economic reasons (like your father and uncles) throughout the years, but do you have any evidence to support the "tens of thousands"?

I can only speak from my own experience, many of the young men my father employed in the 50s and early 60s (in catering) came to the UK looking for a better life. My father once told me that his parent's income before he left was £50 a year, they were peasant farmers with more land than most. With that in mind I would say he was an economic migrant.

Here are some statistics I found: -

Although there was emigration as early as the 1930s, there is no available data before 1955.
The periods of greatest emigration were 1955-59, the 1960s, and 1974-79, times of political instability and socioeconomic insecurity when future prospects appeared bleak and unpromising. Between 1955 and 1959, the period of anticolonial struggle, 29,000 Cypriots, 5 percent of the population, left the island. In the 1960s, there were periods of economic recession and intercommunal strife, and net emigration has been estimated at about 50,000, or 8.5 percent of the island's 1970 population. Most of these emigrants were young males from rural areas and usually unemployed. Some five percent were factory workers and only 5 percent were university graduates. Britain headed the list of destinations, taking more than 75 percent of the emigrants in 1953-73; another 8 to 10 percent went to Australia, and about 5 percent to North America.
During the early 1970s, economic development, social progress, and relative political stability contributed to a slackening of emigration. At the same time, there was immigration, so that the net immigration was 3,200 in 1970-73. This trend ended with the 1974 invasion. During the 1974-79 period, 51,500 persons left as emigrants, and another 15,000 became temporary workers abroad. The new wave of emigrants had Australia as the most common destination (35 percent), followed by North America, Greece, and Britain. Many professionals and technical workers emigrated, and for the first time more women than men left. By the early 1980s, the government had rebuilt the economy, and the 30 percent unemployment rate of 1974 was replaced by a labor shortage. As a result, only about 2,000 Cypriots emigrated during the years 1980-86, while 2,850 returned to the island.

http://countrystudies.us/cyprus/21.htm

There is certainly pre-1955 data on immigration in the UK (that is where the 8000 in the UK by the start of WWII comes from).

But in any case the gist of your post is
- most of the cypriot emigrants left in the late fifities and early sixties and mid/late seventies, i.e at times of upheaval (so, in my view, they should be taken out of the equation of "economic migrants")
- in the early seventies, there was a net influx of immigration of 3200
- in the eighties, 2000 left but 2850 returned, i.e. a net influx of 850 repatriations

Your figures actually support my argument.

BTW, quoting individual cases from personal experience does not make a statistic. Of course many cypriots in London worked in cypriot-owned businesses, this is the result of natural social networking.

Anyroadup, there may well have been tens of tousands of emigrants from cyprus, but it would be inaccurate to classify them as economic migrants, although many of them were indeed economic migrants.

[vaughanwilliams]

I wonder what the world would be like if everybody returned to their own country of origin? The UK is full also of every nationality you can think of and right now the rich Greeks are flocking in to buy up anything in order to keep their stashed cash!All those African,Asians,Carribeans,Cypriots etc, the Uk would be empty!Bliss we British would really love that but alas it will never happen.

That's very different Beverley. What you are describing with the African, Asian and Caribbean communities in Britain is economic migration. The difference is that Cypriots did not immigrate to the UK for economic reasons but had to flee their homeland because of a CIA backed coup and invasion. Many of them had properties and businesses and did not need to go to Britain. Partly responsible for all this tragedy is Britain (as well as the US) and this is well documented in many history books on Cyprus.

Many UK Cypriots are very actively involved in Cyprus because they do not see their stay as permanent; they simply want their country back. A Dutch, Belgian or Frenchman who lived through war-time Nazi occupation or was a refugee throughout the war can understand that feeling even if you as an insular Brit do not.

Omer, tens of thousands of Cypriots left Cyprus before 1974 for economic reasons. My own father and four of his brothers left for the UK and US in the 1930s to better themselves.

Jerry, I have to disagree with you here. The situation in Cyprus during the time your father emigrated is also down to the fact that the cypriot was prevented from prospering under the British rule.

The British had a tight hold on everything here and were milking the country. Thats the real reason many (and I won't say 'tens of thousands') emigrated to get away from that grip.

The ones that went to the UK (can't speak for other countries) found it very difficult and were heavily discriminated against, but managed to get by even with those issues. Many have done very well for themselves and I am proud of these people.

So, let us just get this into context and not make a mountain out of a mole hill.

What exactly do you mean by "milking"? Cyprus had no milk.
In those days Britains sole interest in Cyprus was for strategic reasons, as it is still today. You developed your only industries, construction and tourism, after independance.

[Tim Drayton]

I wonder what the world would be like if everybody returned to their own country of origin? The UK is full also of every nationality you can think of and right now the rich Greeks are flocking in to buy up anything in order to keep their stashed cash!All those African,Asians,Carribeans,Cypriots etc, the Uk would be empty!Bliss we British would really love that but alas it will never happen.

That's very different Beverley. What you are describing with the African, Asian and Caribbean communities in Britain is economic migration. The difference is that Cypriots did not immigrate to the UK for economic reasons but had to flee their homeland because of a CIA backed coup and invasion. Many of them had properties and businesses and did not need to go to Britain. Partly responsible for all this tragedy is Britain (as well as the US) and this is well documented in many history books on Cyprus.

Many UK Cypriots are very actively involved in Cyprus because they do not see their stay as permanent; they simply want their country back. A Dutch, Belgian or Frenchman who lived through war-time Nazi occupation or was a refugee throughout the war can understand that feeling even if you as an insular Brit do not.

Even so, do you not feel that you are treading on very thin ice to criticise a British citizen like myself who has chosen - perfectly legally now that Cyprus has joined the EU - to settle permanently in Cyprus, where I pay income tax, VAT and contribute to the social insurance fund? I am very comfortable with the idea of Cypriots living in my country.

[humanist]

Omer ... welcome to the cyprusforum.......

[Jerry]

Hatter, the economic reasons for leaving Cyprus were a consequence of the upheaval you refer to, that’s what “times of political instability and socioeconomic insecurity when future prospects appeared bleak and unpromising” means to me, in that respect both arguments are valid.

I would say that 79,000 leaving the island equates to tens of thousands, wouldn’t you?.

BTW it’s usual to give a source when quoting statistics.

[Malapapa]

I wonder what the world would be like if everybody returned to their own country of origin? The UK is full also of every nationality you can think of and right now the rich Greeks are flocking in to buy up anything in order to keep their stashed cash!All those African,Asians,Carribeans,Cypriots etc, the Uk would be empty!Bliss we British would really love that but alas it will never happen.

That's very different Beverley. What you are describing with the African, Asian and Caribbean communities in Britain is economic migration. The difference is that Cypriots did not immigrate to the UK for economic reasons but had to flee their homeland because of a CIA backed coup and invasion. Many of them had properties and businesses and did not need to go to Britain. Partly responsible for all this tragedy is Britain (as well as the US) and this is well documented in many history books on Cyprus.

Many UK Cypriots are very actively involved in Cyprus because they do not see their stay as permanent; they simply want their country back. A Dutch, Belgian or Frenchman who lived through war-time Nazi occupation or was a refugee throughout the war can understand that feeling even if you as an insular Brit do not.

Even so, do you not feel that you are treading on very thin ice to criticise a British citizen like myself who has chosen - perfectly legally now that Cyprus has joined the EU - to settle permanently in Cyprus, where I pay income tax, VAT and contribute to the social insurance fund? I am very comfortable with the idea of Cypriots living in my country.

I should hope so. For when Cypriots first settled in your country - in their tens of thousands, prior to independence - they were British subjects, who happened to be born in Cyprus. They were moving from one part of the Empire, where there was great poverty; to another part of the Empire, where, as a result, there was great wealth.

[denizaksulu]

I wonder what the world would be like if everybody returned to their own country of origin? The UK is full also of every nationality you can think of and right now the rich Greeks are flocking in to buy up anything in order to keep their stashed cash!All those African,Asians,Carribeans,Cypriots etc, the Uk would be empty!Bliss we British would really love that but alas it will never happen.

That's very different Beverley. What you are describing with the African, Asian and Caribbean communities in Britain is economic migration. The difference is that Cypriots did not immigrate to the UK for economic reasons but had to flee their homeland because of a CIA backed coup and invasion. Many of them had properties and businesses and did not need to go to Britain. Partly responsible for all this tragedy is Britain (as well as the US) and this is well documented in many history books on Cyprus.

Many UK Cypriots are very actively involved in Cyprus because they do not see their stay as permanent; they simply want their country back. A Dutch, Belgian or Frenchman who lived through war-time Nazi occupation or was a refugee throughout the war can understand that feeling even if you as an insular Brit do not.

Omer, tens of thousands of Cypriots left Cyprus before 1974 for economic reasons. My own father and four of his brothers left for the UK and US in the 1930s to better themselves.

Jerry, I have to disagree with you here. The situation in Cyprus during the time your father emigrated is also down to the fact that the cypriot was prevented from prospering under the British rule.

The British had a tight hold on everything here and were milking the country. Thats the real reason many (and I won't say 'tens of thousands') emigrated to get away from that grip.

The ones that went to the UK (can't speak for other countries) found it very difficult and were heavily discriminated against, but managed to get by even with those issues. Many have done very well for themselves and I am proud of these people.

So, let us just get this into context and not make a mountain out of a mole hill.

What exactly do you mean by "milking"? Cyprus had no milk.
In those days Britains sole interest in Cyprus was for strategic reasons, as it is still today. You developed your only industries, construction and tourism, after independance.

What do you know about the CMC VW? Where do you think the product was exported to? What benefits did the Cyps reap apart from the Lung diseases from Amiandos.!!? Not sure whether Amiandos was run by the CMC, but still run by the Colonial power.