Cyprus-Forum.com

[Hatter]

There is an arbitration institution already in place.

The International Court of Justice (French: Cour internationale de justice; commonly referred to as the World Court or ICJ) is the primary judicial organ of the United Nations. It is based in the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands. Its main functions are to settle legal disputes submitted to it by states and to give advisory opinions on legal questions submitted to it by duly authorized international organs, agencies, and the UN General Assembly

The court shall appoint an international team of unbiased experts in all fields of nation building & administrating. The team shall not include members from Cyprus, Turkey, Greece or England. Experts in constitution, economy, security, taxation, defence, infrastructure, law & order, commerce etc will examine both current and past facts & figures. The team will present a preliminary draft to the court for review & amendments. The court shall review and rule the terms & conditions of the decision.

The final court decision is not subject to referendum but binding to both parties. No appeals shall be allowed.

If both sides really want a solution, a bold step is required, binding arbitration. It is well understood, the two sides are unable or unwilling to compromise. Therefor, the arbitrator shall step in and resolve the problem with legality and fairness.

George stamata tes malakies!

There is already an arbitrator in place, it is called the UN.

It has already made it decision in the form of UN resolutions. Turkey should just follow them and all will be well.

Are you just trying to complicate things even more? Whats to say Turkey will abide by any other decision by anyone else?

What is needed is a multinational force to go and kick her out, actions not BS words over nd over again.

Thats what we need.

Have you ever considered the possibility that all these UN resolutions are just eye candy, and that the real decisions have been taken behind closed doors by the world powers - and that Turkey is just faithfully doing as it is told?

Sure I did. So did everyone else. Really, what is UN all about, if it can't enforce it's own decisions? The conspiracy theories are rampant... what ever cannot be solved... blame it to the Americans or British or what ever you wish to call them. This was always the excuse of our politicians as well. They say "we can't do anything, the CIA, FBI, KGB... micky mouse is against the solution of Cyprob. The complaining goes on and on...

Others on CF say, this is our matter, we can solve it on our own. We don't want foreigners telling us what to do. Others say my proposal is "malakies"... Well, your proposals don't exactly work, do they?


If, after 36 years, the GCs/TCs efforts were in vein, who can tell me the future is bright... the solution is just around the corner, blah,blah..

Wake up, we need help, we can't do this ourselves, not anymore.

A binding arbitration should be considered if the latest "new talks" fail, before they even start. It's a one-way-street.

Of course, there is the easy way out... do nothing.

You dont seem to have replied to my post yet, perhaps you will get round to it later.
About your latest comment, you seem to be contradicting yourself. On the one hand you state that the UN does not have the means to enforce anything, and on the other you propose that an agency of the UN, i.e. the ICJ, takes care of the problem.

You ridicule conspiracy theories, but you do not support your position with any evidence.

Who told you that the solution is round the corner? You 've got to admire the Cypriots, a tiny country that rerfuses to capitulate to subjugation by, and aggression from, a much stronger and brutal adversary. No one said it is easy, or that there are guarantees of bright future as a foregone conclusion.

On another tack, you still haven't told us how the decision of you wonderful arbitration will be enforced. For example, if the outcome is that the turkish army must leave cyprus, who and how will force Turkey to comply?

But for you it would be OK presumably, and please correct me if I am wrong, if the people of Cyprus are finally deprived of their right to democratically have a say in their future.

Really, "George", you should not believe all the crap that Turkey's propaganda machine is feeding you.

"George", No chance of a reply, I suppose?

[Hatter]

... To get to the root of the problem,Cyprus needs to talk directly to Turkey and not waste time playing endless mind games with Eroglu ...
?

On this point we agree, Cymart. I doubt if Turkey would agree to start such talks, as the "solution by the cypriots for the cypriots" suits Turkey's tactics right down to the ground, but that is another issue.

Can anyone who really wants a compromise solution still seriously reject Georges suggestion that we need arbitration?

Can anyone seriously suggest arbitration without the guarantees that the outcome will be enforced? Whether the outcome is palatable to the Cypriots or not, the Cypriots will have to honour it. If the outcome is not palatable to Turkey, and she refuses to comply, who and how will enforce it? This is the sticking point for the Cypriots: heads they loose, tails they loose again.

[B25]

People should stop bring Greece into the equation everytime Turkey is mentioned.

Greece has neither claimed Cyprus nor have we requested her.

Turkey is the culprit here. This is 2010 not 1960. The Greece era has gone, but she is constantly used as a scapegoat to cover for turkey.

Turkey is the occupying nation, yes we should negotiate directly, try telling that to the TCs on this board and see what you get.

George, using your court analysis, so the judge rules against you, you do not abide by the ruling, baliffs in George out. Just tell us exactly who the bailiffs will be when Turkey refuses to abide.

The 8 july agreement is a classic, the UN resolutions is another, the violation of the 4th Geneva convention is another.

Now try and pursuade the GCs that this 'binding arbitration' can work.

Man you are dreaming. Whats worst, you have a few other dreamers agreeing with you.

[Tim Drayton]

On 6 April 2009, President Obama in the course of his visit to Turkey addressed the Turkish Parliament. The full text of his speech can be found here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/p ... speech.pdf

but respected commentator Fikret Bila summed up the main points in his newspaper column as follow:

1- Solve the problems with Armenia.
2- Find a solution to the Kurdish problem.
3- Open the Heybeliada/Halki Seminary.

Anybody who follows events in Turkey will realise that initiatives were launched almost immediately aimed at achieving these goals.

Surely if America were to come along one fine day and tell Turkey to stage a phased withdrawal from Cyprus, she would comply just as obediently with this order. It thus seems to me that one of the reasons that Turkey is able to maintain a large military presence on the island must be that this suits America - regardless of what public pronouncements are made.

[georgios100]

There is an arbitration institution already in place.

The International Court of Justice (French: Cour internationale de justice; commonly referred to as the World Court or ICJ) is the primary judicial organ of the United Nations. It is based in the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands. Its main functions are to settle legal disputes submitted to it by states and to give advisory opinions on legal questions submitted to it by duly authorized international organs, agencies, and the UN General Assembly

The court shall appoint an international team of unbiased experts in all fields of nation building & administrating. The team shall not include members from Cyprus, Turkey, Greece or England. Experts in constitution, economy, security, taxation, defence, infrastructure, law & order, commerce etc will examine both current and past facts & figures. The team will present a preliminary draft to the court for review & amendments. The court shall review and rule the terms & conditions of the decision.

The final court decision is not subject to referendum but binding to both parties. No appeals shall be allowed.

If both sides really want a solution, a bold step is required, binding arbitration. It is well understood, the two sides are unable or unwilling to compromise. Therefor, the arbitrator shall step in and resolve the problem with legality and fairness.

George stamata tes malakies!

There is already an arbitrator in place, it is called the UN.

It has already made it decision in the form of UN resolutions. Turkey should just follow them and all will be well.

Are you just trying to complicate things even more? Whats to say Turkey will abide by any other decision by anyone else?

What is needed is a multinational force to go and kick her out, actions not BS words over nd over again.

Thats what we need.

Thanks for your input... and swearing (not necessary).

The UN issued several resolutions but as we all know, the UN is powerless to enforce them. Bear in mind this:

UN resolutions are not binding arbitration.

Hardliners like you and others (me included), from both sides, are the only reason why a solution was not reached. Maintaining the same stance won't get us anywhere. Since GCs - TCs politicians are incapable to finish this business, they should step aside and let the experts do their job.

Like any other dispute, dispute resolution mechanisms do exist. Let's have the guts to utilize them.

This is what's needed. Reality assessment and resolve. Enough with politics.

The final court decision is not subject to referendum

I was wondering when you would get round to that! You want to deprive the people of Cyprus with the only means they have left to protect themselves from imposed solutions. NO SALE.
The term Binding says it all. If we agree to the binding arbitration agreement, , then we bind ourselves to the court decision. If we don't, we don't. It's a choice, or a risk we take.

The UN issued several resolutions but as we all know, the UN is powerless to enforce them.

And the ICJ has the power to enforce them? Are you serious?
The binding agreement shall be signed by all parties(RoC, "TRNC", Turkey, Greece and England). The court shall rule the decision which is to include specific dates for implementation. Severe penalties to apply for non compliance. Penalties to include land, sea & air embargoes, freezing of funds, loss of UN member status and other measures deemed by the court. Furthermore, political leaders of non compliance parties, shall be subpoenaed for contempt of court. Warrants for their arrest shall be issued worldwide. They must appear in front of the judge in due diligence and show cause.

Hardliners like you and others (me included), from both sides, are the only reason why a solution was not reached

How dare you equate the victims with the perpetrators of a great wrongdoing? Or, rather, absolve the perpetrators of any responsibility (after all, according to you, this is just a "dispute") ?
We cannot "Undo" what's done. We are looking for a solution. Hardliners exist on both sides, no need to mention names. These hardliners don't want a solution but rather a continuation of Cyprob, since their demands are impossible to meet. Compromise VS hardlining don't mix, sorry.

[George stamata tes malakies!

My sentiments entirely. George, stamata tes malakies, noone is buying the Turkish propaganda you are trying to purvey.

The arbitrator shall examine the Cyprob facts & figures from a neutral perspective. This is the way I am examining the situation, with a neutral attitude. It is your right to believe neutrality is equal to Turkish propaganda but I can assure you I do not.

P.S. I apologize for the delay in responding to your comments, family obligations come first, I'm afraid.

Georgios100

[georgios100]

People should stop bring Greece into the equation everytime Turkey is mentioned.
I agree.
Greece has neither claimed Cyprus nor have we requested her.
I agree.
Turkey is the culprit here. This is 2010 not 1960. The Greece era has gone, but she is constantly used as a scapegoat to cover for turkey.
I second that.
Turkey is the occupying nation, yes we should negotiate directly, try telling that to the TCs on this board and see what you get.
Agreed. The TCS know that but cannot react since Turkey is literally supporting their very survival, therefor Turkey calls the shots.
George, using your court analysis, so the judge rules against you, you do not abide by the ruling, baliffs in George out. Just tell us exactly who the bailiffs will be when Turkey refuses to abide.
I answered your question approx 15 minutes ago. See previous post.
The 8 july agreement is a classic, the UN resolutions is another, the violation of the 4th Geneva convention is another.
True.
Now try and pursuade the GCs that this 'binding arbitration' can work.
Again, see previous post. I believe the binding arbitration authority can do better than Christofias. It is our choice to seek refuge in binding arbitration for a final and fair result. I need to stress this. There are risks involved as well to this option which is the last resort. No need to rush into it right now but if the Christofias-Eroglu talks fail, we may want to sit down and see what other options are left, if any.
Man you are dreaming. Whats worst, you have a few other dreamers agreeing with you.

If we REALLY want a solution, binding arbitration is one of the "tools" we should have in our toolbox. If we exhausted all other options, we may want to open the tool box and see if this tool is in our best interest to use or not. Binding arbitration was used before, it works. Bold and gutsy politicians might go for this but remember... it's binding!

Georgios100

[AWE]

On 6 April 2009, President Obama in the course of his visit to Turkey addressed the Turkish Parliament. The full text of his speech can be found here:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/p ... speech.pdf

but respected commentator Fikret Bila summed up the main points in his newspaper column as follow:

1- Solve the problems with Armenia.
2- Find a solution to the Kurdish problem.
3- Open the Heybeliada/Halki Seminary.

Anybody who follows events in Turkey will realise that initiatives were launched almost immediately aimed at achieving these goals.

Surely if America were to come along one fine day and tell Turkey to stage a phased withdrawal from Cyprus, she would comply just as obediently with this order. It thus seems to me that one of the reasons that Turkey is able to maintain a large military presence on the island must be that this suits America - regardless of what public pronouncements are made.

That will be a CIA anti-terror legal black hole prison in the Karpas then.

[Hatter]

There is an arbitration institution already in place.

The International Court of Justice (French: Cour internationale de justice; commonly referred to as the World Court or ICJ) is the primary judicial organ of the United Nations. It is based in the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands. Its main functions are to settle legal disputes submitted to it by states and to give advisory opinions on legal questions submitted to it by duly authorized international organs, agencies, and the UN General Assembly

The court shall appoint an international team of unbiased experts in all fields of nation building & administrating. The team shall not include members from Cyprus, Turkey, Greece or England. Experts in constitution, economy, security, taxation, defence, infrastructure, law & order, commerce etc will examine both current and past facts & figures. The team will present a preliminary draft to the court for review & amendments. The court shall review and rule the terms & conditions of the decision.

The final court decision is not subject to referendum but binding to both parties. No appeals shall be allowed.

If both sides really want a solution, a bold step is required, binding arbitration. It is well understood, the two sides are unable or unwilling to compromise. Therefor, the arbitrator shall step in and resolve the problem with legality and fairness.

George stamata tes malakies!

There is already an arbitrator in place, it is called the UN.

It has already made it decision in the form of UN resolutions. Turkey should just follow them and all will be well.

Are you just trying to complicate things even more? Whats to say Turkey will abide by any other decision by anyone else?

What is needed is a multinational force to go and kick her out, actions not BS words over nd over again.

Thats what we need.

Thanks for your input... and swearing (not necessary).

The UN issued several resolutions but as we all know, the UN is powerless to enforce them. Bear in mind this:

UN resolutions are not binding arbitration.

Hardliners like you and others (me included), from both sides, are the only reason why a solution was not reached. Maintaining the same stance won't get us anywhere. Since GCs - TCs politicians are incapable to finish this business, they should step aside and let the experts do their job.

Like any other dispute, dispute resolution mechanisms do exist. Let's have the guts to utilize them.

This is what's needed. Reality assessment and resolve. Enough with politics.

The final court decision is not subject to referendum

I was wondering when you would get round to that! You want to deprive the people of Cyprus with the only means they have left to protect themselves from imposed solutions. NO SALE.
The term Binding says it all. If we agree to the binding arbitration agreement, , then we bind ourselves to the court decision. If we don't, we don't. It's a choice, or a risk we take.

The UN issued several resolutions but as we all know, the UN is powerless to enforce them.

And the ICJ has the power to enforce them? Are you serious?
The binding agreement shall be signed by all parties(RoC, "TRNC", Turkey, Greece and England). The court shall rule the decision which is to include specific dates for implementation. Severe penalties to apply for non compliance. Penalties to include land, sea & air embargoes, freezing of funds, loss of UN member status and other measures deemed by the court. Furthermore, political leaders of non compliance parties, shall be subpoenaed for contempt of court. Warrants for their arrest shall be issued worldwide. They must appear in front of the judge in due diligence and show cause.

Hardliners like you and others (me included), from both sides, are the only reason why a solution was not reached

How dare you equate the victims with the perpetrators of a great wrongdoing? Or, rather, absolve the perpetrators of any responsibility (after all, according to you, this is just a "dispute") ?
We cannot "Undo" what's done. We are looking for a solution. Hardliners exist on both sides, no need to mention names. These hardliners don't want a solution but rather a continuation of Cyprob, since their demands are impossible to meet. Compromise VS hardlining don't mix, sorry.

[George stamata tes malakies!

My sentiments entirely. George, stamata tes malakies, noone is buying the Turkish propaganda you are trying to purvey.

The arbitrator shall examine the Cyprob facts & figures from a neutral perspective. This is the way I am examining the situation, with a neutral attitude. It is your right to believe neutrality is equal to Turkish propaganda but I can assure you I do not.

P.S. I apologize for the delay in responding to your comments, family obligations come first, I'm afraid.

Georgios100

You still haven't told us how the decision will be enforced if Turkey does not comply. "ontempt of court" eh? I bet the powers that be in Ankara will be trembling in their boots. So WHO will enforce it? If you have no real answer to this question, then the whole idea of arbitration collapses like a deck of cards.

It is also your right to bellieve that promoting the Turkish agenda is "neutrality", but believe me, it is not. Silence, or "neutrality" in the face of a crime is tantamount to tolerance of the crime itself especially if in the name of neutrality you are proposing a process that perpetuates the crime.

It is about time that this "myth" that hardliners on both sides are the only reason we have not had a solution is shown up for what it is: a myth to blame the cypriots for the wrongs that are being done to them, both GCs and TCs. Yes, there is EVERY need to name names, George. Either put up or shut up.

Who told you we cannot "undo" what has been done? Nobody expects you to put the clock back, but a wrong can be righted; justice can be served; human rights can be restored; illegal and inhumane regimes can be disbanded.


If you want to be taken seriously in this forum, you have to stop evading the question. So tell us, (a) do you know for sure that the ICJ has the power to enforce its decision (b) who exactly will enforce the decision, even the "contempt of court" scenario? (c) what guarantee will the weakest party (Cyprus) have that the other party will have no option but to comply with the decision? (d) even if due to "contempt of court" some leader goes to prison (yeah, right!) what good will that do to the Cypriots, both TCs and GCs if their rights are still not restored? (e) why do you keep bringing Greece and "England" (I think you mean the UK) into the equation? The problem is between Cyprus and Turkey, is it not?

Do try and get real answers to these questions, will you? (and I mean real answers, not regurgitating received wisdom).

[apc2010]

Georgios does not like the brits and has the solution to the cyprob ............

wind power ...................

[B25]

There is an arbitration institution already in place.

The International Court of Justice (French: Cour internationale de justice; commonly referred to as the World Court or ICJ) is the primary judicial organ of the United Nations. It is based in the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands. Its main functions are to settle legal disputes submitted to it by states and to give advisory opinions on legal questions submitted to it by duly authorized international organs, agencies, and the UN General Assembly

The court shall appoint an international team of unbiased experts in all fields of nation building & administrating. The team shall not include members from Cyprus, Turkey, Greece or England. Experts in constitution, economy, security, taxation, defence, infrastructure, law & order, commerce etc will examine both current and past facts & figures. The team will present a preliminary draft to the court for review & amendments. The court shall review and rule the terms & conditions of the decision.

The final court decision is not subject to referendum but binding to both parties. No appeals shall be allowed.

If both sides really want a solution, a bold step is required, binding arbitration. It is well understood, the two sides are unable or unwilling to compromise. Therefor, the arbitrator shall step in and resolve the problem with legality and fairness.

George stamata tes malakies!

There is already an arbitrator in place, it is called the UN.

It has already made it decision in the form of UN resolutions. Turkey should just follow them and all will be well.

Are you just trying to complicate things even more? Whats to say Turkey will abide by any other decision by anyone else?

What is needed is a multinational force to go and kick her out, actions not BS words over nd over again.

Thats what we need.

Thanks for your input... and swearing (not necessary).

The UN issued several resolutions but as we all know, the UN is powerless to enforce them. Bear in mind this:

UN resolutions are not binding arbitration.

Hardliners like you and others (me included), from both sides, are the only reason why a solution was not reached. Maintaining the same stance won't get us anywhere. Since GCs - TCs politicians are incapable to finish this business, they should step aside and let the experts do their job.

Like any other dispute, dispute resolution mechanisms do exist. Let's have the guts to utilize them.

This is what's needed. Reality assessment and resolve. Enough with politics.

The final court decision is not subject to referendum

I was wondering when you would get round to that! You want to deprive the people of Cyprus with the only means they have left to protect themselves from imposed solutions. NO SALE.
The term Binding says it all. If we agree to the binding arbitration agreement, , then we bind ourselves to the court decision. If we don't, we don't. It's a choice, or a risk we take.

The UN issued several resolutions but as we all know, the UN is powerless to enforce them.

And the ICJ has the power to enforce them? Are you serious?
The binding agreement shall be signed by all parties(RoC, "TRNC", Turkey, Greece and England). The court shall rule the decision which is to include specific dates for implementation. Severe penalties to apply for non compliance. Penalties to include land, sea & air embargoes, freezing of funds, loss of UN member status and other measures deemed by the court. Furthermore, political leaders of non compliance parties, shall be subpoenaed for contempt of court. Warrants for their arrest shall be issued worldwide. They must appear in front of the judge in due diligence and show cause.

Hardliners like you and others (me included), from both sides, are the only reason why a solution was not reached

How dare you equate the victims with the perpetrators of a great wrongdoing? Or, rather, absolve the perpetrators of any responsibility (after all, according to you, this is just a "dispute") ?
We cannot "Undo" what's done. We are looking for a solution. Hardliners exist on both sides, no need to mention names. These hardliners don't want a solution but rather a continuation of Cyprob, since their demands are impossible to meet. Compromise VS hardlining don't mix, sorry.

[George stamata tes malakies!

My sentiments entirely. George, stamata tes malakies, noone is buying the Turkish propaganda you are trying to purvey.

The arbitrator shall examine the Cyprob facts & figures from a neutral perspective. This is the way I am examining the situation, with a neutral attitude. It is your right to believe neutrality is equal to Turkish propaganda but I can assure you I do not.

P.S. I apologize for the delay in responding to your comments, family obligations come first, I'm afraid.

Georgios100

You still haven't told us how the decision will be enforced if Turkey does not comply. "ontempt of court" eh? I bet the powers that be in Ankara will be trembling in their boots. So WHO will enforce it? If you have no real answer to this question, then the whole idea of arbitration collapses like a deck of cards.

It is also your right to bellieve that promoting the Turkish agenda is "neutrality", but believe me, it is not. Silence, or "neutrality" in the face of a crime is tantamount to tolerance of the crime itself especially if in the name of neutrality you are proposing a process that perpetuates the crime.

It is about time that this "myth" that hardliners on both sides are the only reason we have not had a solution is shown up for what it is: a myth to blame the cypriots for the wrongs that are being done to them, both GCs and TCs. Yes, there is EVERY need to name names, George. Either put up or shut up.

Who told you we cannot "undo" what has been done? Nobody expects you to put the clock back, but a wrong can be righted; justice can be served; human rights can be restored; illegal and inhumane regimes can be disbanded.


If you want to be taken seriously in this forum, you have to stop evading the question. So tell us, (a) do you know for sure that the ICJ has the power to enforce its decision (b) who exactly will enforce the decision, even the "contempt of court" scenario? (c) what guarantee will the weakest party (Cyprus) have that the other party will have no option but to comply with the decision? (d) even if due to "contempt of court" some leader goes to prison (yeah, right!) what good will that do to the Cypriots, both TCs and GCs if their rights are still not restored? (e) why do you keep bringing Greece and "England" (I think you mean the UK) into the equation? The problem is between Cyprus and Turkey, is it not?

Do try and get real answers to these questions, will you? (and I mean real answers, not regurgitating received wisdom).

Bravo reh Hatter.

George he does have a point mate. Its all well and good throwing scenarios into the pot, but are they workable?? The 1960 constitution was such a scenario, look where that got us.