Cyprus-Forum.com

[georgios100]

There is an arbitration institution already in place.

The International Court of Justice (French: Cour internationale de justice; commonly referred to as the World Court or ICJ) is the primary judicial organ of the United Nations. It is based in the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands. Its main functions are to settle legal disputes submitted to it by states and to give advisory opinions on legal questions submitted to it by duly authorized international organs, agencies, and the UN General Assembly

The court shall appoint an international team of unbiased experts in all fields of nation building & administrating. The team shall not include members from Cyprus, Turkey, Greece or England. Experts in constitution, economy, security, taxation, defence, infrastructure, law & order, commerce etc will examine both current and past facts & figures. The team will present a preliminary draft to the court for review & amendments. The court shall review and rule the terms & conditions of the decision.

The final court decision is not subject to referendum but binding to both parties. No appeals shall be allowed.

If both sides really want a solution, a bold step is required, binding arbitration. It is well understood, the two sides are unable or unwilling to compromise. Therefor, the arbitrator shall step in and resolve the problem with legality and fairness.

George stamata tes malakies!

There is already an arbitrator in place, it is called the UN.

It has already made it decision in the form of UN resolutions. Turkey should just follow them and all will be well.

Are you just trying to complicate things even more? Whats to say Turkey will abide by any other decision by anyone else?

What is needed is a multinational force to go and kick her out, actions not BS words over nd over again.

Thats what we need.

Thanks for your input... and swearing (not necessary).

The UN issued several resolutions but as we all know, the UN is powerless to enforce them. Bear in mind this:

UN resolutions are not binding arbitration.

Hardliners like you and others (me included), from both sides, are the only reason why a solution was not reached. Maintaining the same stance won't get us anywhere. Since GCs - TCs politicians are incapable to finish this business, they should step aside and let the experts do their job.

Like any other dispute, dispute resolution mechanisms do exist. Let's have the guts to utilize them.

This is what's needed. Reality assessment and resolve. Enough with politics.

[Tim Drayton]

There is an arbitration institution already in place.

The International Court of Justice (French: Cour internationale de justice; commonly referred to as the World Court or ICJ) is the primary judicial organ of the United Nations. It is based in the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands. Its main functions are to settle legal disputes submitted to it by states and to give advisory opinions on legal questions submitted to it by duly authorized international organs, agencies, and the UN General Assembly

The court shall appoint an international team of unbiased experts in all fields of nation building & administrating. The team shall not include members from Cyprus, Turkey, Greece or England. Experts in constitution, economy, security, taxation, defence, infrastructure, law & order, commerce etc will examine both current and past facts & figures. The team will present a preliminary draft to the court for review & amendments. The court shall review and rule the terms & conditions of the decision.

The final court decision is not subject to referendum but binding to both parties. No appeals shall be allowed.

If both sides really want a solution, a bold step is required, binding arbitration. It is well understood, the two sides are unable or unwilling to compromise. Therefor, the arbitrator shall step in and resolve the problem with legality and fairness.

George stamata tes malakies!

There is already an arbitrator in place, it is called the UN.

It has already made it decision in the form of UN resolutions. Turkey should just follow them and all will be well.

Are you just trying to complicate things even more? Whats to say Turkey will abide by any other decision by anyone else?

What is needed is a multinational force to go and kick her out, actions not BS words over nd over again.

Thats what we need.

Have you ever considered the possibility that all these UN resolutions are just eye candy, and that the real decisions have been taken behind closed doors by the world powers - and that Turkey is just faithfully doing as it is told?

[cymart]

United Nations-read United States etc. etc. as that guy David Icke wrote in one of his books!Some of his theories are way over the top of course,but he may be right on this one???

[cymart]

Also good food for thought...

[Hatter]

There is an arbitration institution already in place.

The International Court of Justice (French: Cour internationale de justice; commonly referred to as the World Court or ICJ) is the primary judicial organ of the United Nations. It is based in the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands. Its main functions are to settle legal disputes submitted to it by states and to give advisory opinions on legal questions submitted to it by duly authorized international organs, agencies, and the UN General Assembly

The court shall appoint an international team of unbiased experts in all fields of nation building & administrating. The team shall not include members from Cyprus, Turkey, Greece or England. Experts in constitution, economy, security, taxation, defence, infrastructure, law & order, commerce etc will examine both current and past facts & figures. The team will present a preliminary draft to the court for review & amendments. The court shall review and rule the terms & conditions of the decision.

The final court decision is not subject to referendum but binding to both parties. No appeals shall be allowed.

If both sides really want a solution, a bold step is required, binding arbitration. It is well understood, the two sides are unable or unwilling to compromise. Therefor, the arbitrator shall step in and resolve the problem with legality and fairness.

George stamata tes malakies!

There is already an arbitrator in place, it is called the UN.

It has already made it decision in the form of UN resolutions. Turkey should just follow them and all will be well.

Are you just trying to complicate things even more? Whats to say Turkey will abide by any other decision by anyone else?

What is needed is a multinational force to go and kick her out, actions not BS words over nd over again.

Thats what we need.

Thanks for your input... and swearing (not necessary).

The UN issued several resolutions but as we all know, the UN is powerless to enforce them. Bear in mind this:

UN resolutions are not binding arbitration.

Hardliners like you and others (me included), from both sides, are the only reason why a solution was not reached. Maintaining the same stance won't get us anywhere. Since GCs - TCs politicians are incapable to finish this business, they should step aside and let the experts do their job.

Like any other dispute, dispute resolution mechanisms do exist. Let's have the guts to utilize them.

This is what's needed. Reality assessment and resolve. Enough with politics.

The final court decision is not subject to referendum

I was wondering when you would get round to that! You want to deprive the people of Cyprus with the only means they have left to protect themselves from imposed solutions. NO SALE.

The UN issued several resolutions but as we all know, the UN is powerless to enforce them.

And the ICJ has the power to enforce them? Are you serious?

Hardliners like you and others (me included), from both sides, are the only reason why a solution was not reached

How dare you equate the victims with the perpetrators of a great wrondoing? Or, rather, absolve the perpetrators of any responsibility (after all, according to you, this is just a "dispute") ?

[George stamata tes malakies!

My sentiments entirely. George, stamata tes malakies, noone is buying the Turkish propaganda you are trying to purvey.

[georgios100]

There is an arbitration institution already in place.

The International Court of Justice (French: Cour internationale de justice; commonly referred to as the World Court or ICJ) is the primary judicial organ of the United Nations. It is based in the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands. Its main functions are to settle legal disputes submitted to it by states and to give advisory opinions on legal questions submitted to it by duly authorized international organs, agencies, and the UN General Assembly

The court shall appoint an international team of unbiased experts in all fields of nation building & administrating. The team shall not include members from Cyprus, Turkey, Greece or England. Experts in constitution, economy, security, taxation, defence, infrastructure, law & order, commerce etc will examine both current and past facts & figures. The team will present a preliminary draft to the court for review & amendments. The court shall review and rule the terms & conditions of the decision.

The final court decision is not subject to referendum but binding to both parties. No appeals shall be allowed.

If both sides really want a solution, a bold step is required, binding arbitration. It is well understood, the two sides are unable or unwilling to compromise. Therefor, the arbitrator shall step in and resolve the problem with legality and fairness.

George stamata tes malakies!

There is already an arbitrator in place, it is called the UN.

It has already made it decision in the form of UN resolutions. Turkey should just follow them and all will be well.

Are you just trying to complicate things even more? Whats to say Turkey will abide by any other decision by anyone else?

What is needed is a multinational force to go and kick her out, actions not BS words over nd over again.

Thats what we need.

Have you ever considered the possibility that all these UN resolutions are just eye candy, and that the real decisions have been taken behind closed doors by the world powers - and that Turkey is just faithfully doing as it is told?

Sure I did. So did everyone else. Really, what is UN all about, if it can't enforce it's own decisions? The conspiracy theories are rampant... what ever cannot be solved... blame it to the Americans or British or what ever you wish to call them. This was always the excuse of our politicians as well. They say "we can't do anything, the CIA, FBI, KGB... micky mouse is against the solution of Cyprob. The complaining goes on and on...

Others on CF say, this is our matter, we can solve it on our own. We don't want foreigners telling us what to do. Others say my proposal is "malakies"... Well, your proposals don't exactly work, do they?


If, after 36 years, the GCs/TCs efforts were in vein, who can tell me the future is bright... the solution is just around the corner, blah,blah..

Wake up, we need help, we can't do this ourselves, not anymore.

A binding arbitration should be considered if the latest "new talks" fail, before they even start. It's a one-way-street.

Of course, there is the easy way out... do nothing.

[B25]

There is an arbitration institution already in place.

The International Court of Justice (French: Cour internationale de justice; commonly referred to as the World Court or ICJ) is the primary judicial organ of the United Nations. It is based in the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands. Its main functions are to settle legal disputes submitted to it by states and to give advisory opinions on legal questions submitted to it by duly authorized international organs, agencies, and the UN General Assembly

The court shall appoint an international team of unbiased experts in all fields of nation building & administrating. The team shall not include members from Cyprus, Turkey, Greece or England. Experts in constitution, economy, security, taxation, defence, infrastructure, law & order, commerce etc will examine both current and past facts & figures. The team will present a preliminary draft to the court for review & amendments. The court shall review and rule the terms & conditions of the decision.

The final court decision is not subject to referendum but binding to both parties. No appeals shall be allowed.

If both sides really want a solution, a bold step is required, binding arbitration. It is well understood, the two sides are unable or unwilling to compromise. Therefor, the arbitrator shall step in and resolve the problem with legality and fairness.

George stamata tes malakies!

There is already an arbitrator in place, it is called the UN.

It has already made it decision in the form of UN resolutions. Turkey should just follow them and all will be well.

Are you just trying to complicate things even more? Whats to say Turkey will abide by any other decision by anyone else?

What is needed is a multinational force to go and kick her out, actions not BS words over nd over again.

Thats what we need.

Have you ever considered the possibility that all these UN resolutions are just eye candy, and that the real decisions have been taken behind closed doors by the world powers - and that Turkey is just faithfully doing as it is told?

Sure I did. So did everyone else. Really, what is UN all about, if it can't enforce it's own decisions? The conspiracy theories are rampant... what ever cannot be solved... blame it to the Americans or British or what ever you wish to call them. This was always the excuse of our politicians as well. They say "we can't do anything, the CIA, FBI, KGB... micky mouse is against the solution of Cyprob. The complaining goes on and on...

Others on CF say, this is our matter, we can solve it on our own. We don't want foreigners telling us what to do. Others say my proposal is "malakies"... Well, your proposals don't exactly work, do they?


If, after 36 years, the GCs/TCs efforts were in vein, who can tell me the future is bright... the solution is just around the corner, blah,blah..

Wake up, we need help, we can't do this ourselves, not anymore.

A binding arbitration should be considered if the latest "new talks" fail, before they even start. It's a one-way-street.

Of course, there is the easy way out... do nothing.

Georgios, you disappoint me.

Let me ask you this, what if the Annan Plan was a binding arbitration? Where would we be today? I'll tell you, speaking turkish and praying to allah.

Like I said we will not accept anything binding that we ourselves have no voted for. To accept anything less is pure suicide.

So, for as long as we have people like you putting ridiculous ideas into the TCs head, we are always going to have a problem.

Let them show they mean business by abiding by the outstanding UN (of which there are many), resolutions and we may think about anything else, otherwise they and you know what you can all do.

Thanks

[Hatter]

There is an arbitration institution already in place.

The International Court of Justice (French: Cour internationale de justice; commonly referred to as the World Court or ICJ) is the primary judicial organ of the United Nations. It is based in the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands. Its main functions are to settle legal disputes submitted to it by states and to give advisory opinions on legal questions submitted to it by duly authorized international organs, agencies, and the UN General Assembly

The court shall appoint an international team of unbiased experts in all fields of nation building & administrating. The team shall not include members from Cyprus, Turkey, Greece or England. Experts in constitution, economy, security, taxation, defence, infrastructure, law & order, commerce etc will examine both current and past facts & figures. The team will present a preliminary draft to the court for review & amendments. The court shall review and rule the terms & conditions of the decision.

The final court decision is not subject to referendum but binding to both parties. No appeals shall be allowed.

If both sides really want a solution, a bold step is required, binding arbitration. It is well understood, the two sides are unable or unwilling to compromise. Therefor, the arbitrator shall step in and resolve the problem with legality and fairness.

George stamata tes malakies!

There is already an arbitrator in place, it is called the UN.

It has already made it decision in the form of UN resolutions. Turkey should just follow them and all will be well.

Are you just trying to complicate things even more? Whats to say Turkey will abide by any other decision by anyone else?

What is needed is a multinational force to go and kick her out, actions not BS words over nd over again.

Thats what we need.

Have you ever considered the possibility that all these UN resolutions are just eye candy, and that the real decisions have been taken behind closed doors by the world powers - and that Turkey is just faithfully doing as it is told?

Sure I did. So did everyone else. Really, what is UN all about, if it can't enforce it's own decisions? The conspiracy theories are rampant... what ever cannot be solved... blame it to the Americans or British or what ever you wish to call them. This was always the excuse of our politicians as well. They say "we can't do anything, the CIA, FBI, KGB... micky mouse is against the solution of Cyprob. The complaining goes on and on...

Others on CF say, this is our matter, we can solve it on our own. We don't want foreigners telling us what to do. Others say my proposal is "malakies"... Well, your proposals don't exactly work, do they?


If, after 36 years, the GCs/TCs efforts were in vein, who can tell me the future is bright... the solution is just around the corner, blah,blah..

Wake up, we need help, we can't do this ourselves, not anymore.

A binding arbitration should be considered if the latest "new talks" fail, before they even start. It's a one-way-street.

Of course, there is the easy way out... do nothing.

You dont seem to have replied to my post yet, perhaps you will get round to it later.
About your latest comment, you seem to be contradicting yourself. On the one hand you state that the UN does not have the means to enforce anything, and on the other you propose that an agency of the UN, i.e. the ICJ, takes care of the problem.

You ridicule conspiracy theories, but you do not support your position with any evidence.

Who told you that the solution is round the corner? You 've got to admire the Cypriots, a tiny country that rerfuses to capitulate to subjugation by, and aggression from, a much stronger and brutal adversary. No one said it is easy, or that there are guarantees of bright future as a foregone conclusion.

On another tack, you still haven't told us how the decision of you wonderful arbitration will be enforced. For example, if the outcome is that the turkish army must leave cyprus, who and how will force Turkey to comply?

But for you it would be OK presumably, and please correct me if I am wrong, if the people of Cyprus are finally deprived of their right to democratically have a say in their future.

Really, "George", you should not believe all the crap that Turkey's propaganda machine is feeding you.

[georgios100]

There is an arbitration institution already in place.

The International Court of Justice (French: Cour internationale de justice; commonly referred to as the World Court or ICJ) is the primary judicial organ of the United Nations. It is based in the Peace Palace in The Hague, Netherlands. Its main functions are to settle legal disputes submitted to it by states and to give advisory opinions on legal questions submitted to it by duly authorized international organs, agencies, and the UN General Assembly

The court shall appoint an international team of unbiased experts in all fields of nation building & administrating. The team shall not include members from Cyprus, Turkey, Greece or England. Experts in constitution, economy, security, taxation, defence, infrastructure, law & order, commerce etc will examine both current and past facts & figures. The team will present a preliminary draft to the court for review & amendments. The court shall review and rule the terms & conditions of the decision.

The final court decision is not subject to referendum but binding to both parties. No appeals shall be allowed.

If both sides really want a solution, a bold step is required, binding arbitration. It is well understood, the two sides are unable or unwilling to compromise. Therefor, the arbitrator shall step in and resolve the problem with legality and fairness.

George stamata tes malakies!

There is already an arbitrator in place, it is called the UN.

It has already made it decision in the form of UN resolutions. Turkey should just follow them and all will be well.

Are you just trying to complicate things even more? Whats to say Turkey will abide by any other decision by anyone else?

What is needed is a multinational force to go and kick her out, actions not BS words over nd over again.

Thats what we need.

Have you ever considered the possibility that all these UN resolutions are just eye candy, and that the real decisions have been taken behind closed doors by the world powers - and that Turkey is just faithfully doing as it is told?

Sure I did. So did everyone else. Really, what is UN all about, if it can't enforce it's own decisions? The conspiracy theories are rampant... what ever cannot be solved... blame it to the Americans or British or what ever you wish to call them. This was always the excuse of our politicians as well. They say "we can't do anything, the CIA, FBI, KGB... micky mouse is against the solution of Cyprob. The complaining goes on and on...

Others on CF say, this is our matter, we can solve it on our own. We don't want foreigners telling us what to do. Others say my proposal is "malakies"... Well, your proposals don't exactly work, do they?


If, after 36 years, the GCs/TCs efforts were in vein, who can tell me the future is bright... the solution is just around the corner, blah,blah..

Wake up, we need help, we can't do this ourselves, not anymore.

A binding arbitration should be considered if the latest "new talks" fail, before they even start. It's a one-way-street.

Of course, there is the easy way out... do nothing.

Georgios, you disappoint me.

Let me ask you this, what if the Annan Plan was a binding arbitration? Where would we be today? I'll tell you, speaking turkish and praying to allah.

Like I said we will not accept anything binding that we ourselves have no voted for. To accept anything less is pure suicide.

So, for as long as we have people like you putting ridiculous ideas into the TCs head, we are always going to have a problem.

Let them show they mean business by abiding by the outstanding UN (of which there are many), resolutions and we may think about anything else, otherwise they and you know what you can all do.

Thanks

Nice to hear from you my friend,

I know how a binding arbitration sounds... not very good. Binding for many, means trying to shove something into people's throat. Binding also means, there is no turning back, no appeals, no more options. Binding means final and permanent. A scary thought indeed.

Contrary to all of the above, we find binding arbitration in every day life. Our justice system is the perfect example. The decision of the judge is binding, based on the evidence and testimony, accepted as fair and legit.
The people attending the proceeding don't get to participate in a referendum to approve/disapprove the court's decision. The guilty is handed a sentence, the innocent is released, end of story, next case.

In other words, the courts get things done. We can now go about our business and move forward.

The politicians, on the other hand, don't operate like that. They tend to complicate things to a state of no return.
They need to keep themselves busy, therefor justify their salaries & subsidies painfully earned by the hardworking Cypriot citizens. Ever wonder why Cyprus has so many political parties? So many voices? It's because politics is profitable and rewarding. The RoC president has the most important job of all of us. And a fat pension after that. But, do they get the job done? No.

I ask you this:
Do you think Christofias can do better than arbitration?
Do you think Eroglu will honor the UN resolutions?
Do you think these two guys can agree on a solution?

My answer is no, on all 3 questions.

The objection in accepting binding arbitration will come from Turkey, not us. Turkey knows, the arbitrators shall consider the UN resolutions as part of the facts & figures of Cyprob and their decision will be influenced by those resolutions. The Anan plan was not a good or fair plan. That's why it was not binding from the beginning. The arbitrators must do much better than that.

[cymart]

Not just because he is from the same town as my wife,but because he has made some very valid points:
Negotiations of various kinds have been taking place on and off here since the 1960's,yet no agreement has ever been reached.
The current situation with the so-called National Council reflects the behaviour of the Greek-Cypriot politicians who cannot even agree with each other,let alone with the Turkish side!
Of course Turkey is watching this facade with glee and is easily always two steps ahead!
They are always moaning that they need help from outside to pressure Turkey etc. yet whenever any foreign dignitary takes the trouble to come here to see the situation first hand and tries to make suggestions they are branded as biased in favour of Turkey and either treated with suspicion or openly reviled!(The latest U.N. Secretary generals visit was a very good example-the truth is that nobody is welcome on this side unless they support only the view of the Greek-Cypriots-if they can understand exactly what they want?)
Rather than creating circumstances which favour them,all the Greek-Cypriots seem to achieve is to react verbally and ineffectively against developments which don't!
The much despised and reviled Annan Plan was actually reviewed in 2005 and all the parties here agreed on which amendments were needed to make it acceptable,but rather than use this as a starting point with Talat when he started negotiations,Christophias insisted on beginning from scratch and wasted two years dealing mostly with only the constitutional aspects until Talats mandate expired and Eroglu replaced him!Not surprisingly,the territorial concessions the plan contained,and which were very favourable for the Greek-Cypriots after more than thirty years have now been declared null and void by Eroglu,as has the entire plan because this side rejected it-this is clearly stated in the preamble too!
To get to the root of the problem,Cyprus needs to talk directly to Turkey and not waste time playing endless mind games with Eroglu,who will try to stretch the process out for another thirty years if he is allowed to!
Expanding the negotiations to include Greece and Turkey is an obvious way to do this,yet rather than seizing the opportunity,Christophias seems to insist on holding talks with Eroglu as he did with his previous 'comrade!'
This is just an analysis of some of the aspects of the situation.......
Can anyone who really wants a compromise solution still seriously reject Georges suggestion that we need arbitration?