Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

God doesn't necessarily have to be connected to religion! The above points only refute religion and it's interpretation of a creator...

The following is probably the most convincing when it comes to the existance of a creator;

For many years British philosopher, Dr. Antony Flew, has been a leading spokesperson for atheism, actively involved in debate after debate. However, scientific discoveries within the last 30 years brought him to a conclusion he could not avoid. In a video interview in December 2004 he stated, "Super-intelligence is the only good explanation for the origin of life and the complexity of nature."1 Prominent in his conclusion were the discoveries of DNA. Here's why.

computer programming:
DNA code:


DNA in our cells is very similar to an intricate computer program. In the photo on the left, you see that a computer program is made up of a series of ones and zeros (called binary code). The sequencing and ordering of these ones and zeros is what makes the computer program work properly.

In the same way, DNA is made up of four chemicals, abbreviated as letters A, T, G, and C. Much like the ones and zeros, these letters are arranged in the human cell like this: CGTGTGACTCGCTCCTGAT and so on. The order in which they are arranged instructs the cell's actions.

What is amazing is that within the tiny space in every cell in your body, this code is three billion letters long!!2

To grasp the amount of DNA information in one cell, "a live reading of that code at a rate of three letters per second would take thirty-one years, even if reading continued day and night."3 Wait, there's more.

It has been determined that 99.9% of your DNA is similar to everyone's genetic makeup.4 What is uniquely you comes in the fractional difference in how those three billion letters are sequenced in your cells.

The U.S. government is able to identify everyone in our country by the arrangement of a nine-digit social security number. Yet, inside every cell in you is a three-billion-lettered DNA structure that belongs only to you. This code identifies you and continually instructs your cells' behavior.

Dr. Francis Collins, director of the Human Genome Project (that mapped the human DNA structure) said that one can "think of DNA as an instructional script, a software program, sitting in the nucleus of the cell."5

Perry Marshall, an information specialist, comments on the implications of this. "There has never existed a computer program that wasn't designed...[whether it is] a code, or a program, or a message given through a language, there is always an intelligent mind behind it."6

Just as former atheist Dr. Antony Flew questioned, it is legitimate to ask oneself regarding this three billion letter code instructing the cell...who wrote this script? Who placed this working code, inside the cell?

It's like walking along the beach and you see in the sand, "Mike loves Michelle." You know the waves rolling up on the beach didn't form that--a person wrote that. It is a precise message. It is clear communication. In the same way, the DNA structure is a complex, three-billion-lettered script, informing and directing the cell's process.

How can one explain this sophisticated messaging, coding, residing in our cells?

On June 26, 2000, President Clinton congratulated those who completed the human genome sequencing. President Clinton said, "Today we are learning the language in which God created life. We are gaining ever more awe for the complexity, the beauty, the wonder of God's most divine and sacred gift."7 Dr. Francis Collins, director of the Human Genome Project, followed Clinton to the podium stating, "It is humbling for me and awe inspiring to realize that we have caught the first glimpse of our own instruction book, previously known only to God."8

When looking at the DNA structure within the human body, we cannot escape the presence of intelligent (incredibly intelligent) design.

I'd like to hear Oracles take on the above....

Sounds like he is suffering from typical physical scientist's superiority complex. Just because he can programme some computer stuff he thinks Biology is tapped!

Well what he doesn't realise is that unlike computer programmes DNA is self replicating (and contains its own inherent blueprint). If you throw the chemicals in a test-tube they will self-assemble and take off without any guiding hand or intelligent designer to hand.

DNA is God on planet Earth.

And Man is nothing special ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ds-newsxml

[T_C]

Sounds like he is suffering from typical physical scientist's superiority complex. Just because he can programme some computer stuff he thinks Biology is tapped!

Well what he doesn't realise is that unlike computer programmes DNA is self replicating (and contains its own inherent blueprint). If you* throw the chemicals in a test-tube they will self-assemble and take off without any guiding hand or intelligent designer to hand.

DNA is God on planet Earth.

And Man is nothing special ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ds-newsxml

I don't think it's because he can program computers, but rather because he's noticed a starking similarity in how computer code functions, to that of DNA. I'm sure there are differences but the parallels are truly astounding if you were to really look into it.

Even the definition of 'genetic code' in the dictionary begins with "the biochemical instructions". You can't have instructions without an instructor....you can't have a code without some form of intelligence behind it full stop!

There are scientists who spend their lives listening to space hoping to hear radio waves that contain any type of ordered sequence of sounds...if any of them were to hear something even remotely as complex and sequenced as DNA, they would claim to have irrefutable evidence of intelligence outside earth...yet the same doesn't seem to apply the other way round.

Don't get me wrong, I much prefer scientific research over any holy book...but I do think that scientists are still just scratching the surface...or if anything working from the "top, down" as opposed to "bottom, up".

Imagine a really big staircase...if we were created, the creation point would be the begginning of it all (step 1)...we went up lot's and lot's and lot's of countless steps before we got to where we are now, so surely we should wait till we see the final step and whats beyond it before coming to any conclusions...

At least scientists are working their way down though....unlike some who are at the top thinking if they beg enough it'll turn into an escalator...

[Epiktitos]

Even the definition of 'genetic code' in the dictionary begins with "the biochemical instructions". You can't have instructions without an instructor....you can't have a code without some form of intelligence behind it full stop!

Nonsense.

The intertwined ideas from biology of DNA acting as an instructional code, and evolution as a mechanism for improving a set of instructions towards a task has inspired a programming concept called genetic programming, which essentially allows a computer program to evolve via a crude mechanism of natural selection in an attempt to solve a problem (or more specifically, to design an algorithm to search an immense solution space for which no known algorithm exists, and often no perfect algorithm could ever exist).

This technique for example has been successfully used by NASA in a critical but very poorly understood area: antenna design. On some probe or other that NASA were sending into the outer solar system there were antenna design requirements that simply could not be met by human designers using the traditional clunky radio antenna design techniques so an attempt was made to allow a design to 'evolve' using genetic programming. The technique yielded some incredible (and absurd) antenna designs, and in the end settled ('converged') on a design that actually worked, and not only would human designers not have ever dreamed it up, but would not even have believed it to work.

In general, biology was originally, and continues to be an inspiration for computer science (and various branches of engineering) - biological systems are seen as natural computers that electronic computers might be modeled on - for example the brain as an inspiration for electronic or software neural nets for data processing, the eye as a basis for arrays of the CCD sensors that make up digital cameras, and the broad computing approach (that I can't readily classify) based on cellular automata, that is not currently in favour because the generation of electronics since the invention of the semiconductor transistor favours a different computational approach (but has an incredibly rich body of theoretical research behind it, starting with Conway's Game of Life).

In you really care, start here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_programming

And if you're really interested, try this for a fascinating and illuminating read:
http://www.amazon.com/Complexity-Guided-Tour-Melanie-Mitchell/dp/0195124413/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1272330629&sr=8-1

[fig head]

dont you all have any thing better to do...

O.K i learnt when i was a kid to not waste my time argue or debate with someone who is ether less intelligent or simplly ignorent

the result of a debate wit multi strong openions doesnt solve anything, everyone is saying what they think/believe and the point of the debate (convencing the other party of your views) is pointless and useless, it never happen.

so instead of going on ad on and on just dont bother, its not like if there is anyone who really care ..\\chill pill people , chill pill

[Oracle]

dont you all have any thing better to do...

O.K i learnt when i was a kid to not waste my time argue or debate with someone who is ether less intelligent or simplly ignorent

the result of a debate wit multi strong openions doesnt solve anything, everyone is saying what they think/believe and the point of the debate (convencing the other party of your views) is pointless and useless, it never happen.

so instead of going on ad on and on just dont bother, its not like if there is anyone who really care ..\\chill pill people , chill pill

Figgy.

Sometimes, it helps to write your thoughts down. If they are rubbish they eventually become extinct. Replaced by better thoughts. Evolving slowly, step by step into a coherent belief system. The weaker thoughts are left as traces, like fossils.

Mostly, I believe people post for their own amusement. Nothing wrong with that. Randomness is excellent.

[Oracle]

Sounds like he is suffering from typical physical scientist's superiority complex. Just because he can programme some computer stuff he thinks Biology is tapped!

Well what he doesn't realise is that unlike computer programmes DNA is self replicating (and contains its own inherent blueprint). If you* throw the chemicals in a test-tube they will self-assemble and take off without any guiding hand or intelligent designer to hand.

DNA is God on planet Earth.

And Man is nothing special ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ds-newsxml

I don't think it's because he can program computers, but rather because he's noticed a starking similarity in how computer code functions, to that of DNA. I'm sure there are differences but the parallels are truly astounding if you were to really look into it.

I think Epiktitos has shown you how that striking similarity came into being. Programmers mimicking biological systems.

Of course DNA/RNA are the systems which evolved/survived here on Earth. There may be other equally simple self-replicating codes which function in other atmospheres.

Even the definition of 'genetic code' in the dictionary begins with "the biochemical instructions". You can't have instructions without an instructor....you can't have a code without some form of intelligence behind it full stop!

The dictionary definition is the end result of a linguistic explanation and nothing more.

Have you ever grown crystal gardens? The "information" to generate more and more complex forms is within the molecules of Potassium permanganate, Copper sulphate etc. God isn't sitting there directing them.

Don't get me wrong, I much prefer scientific research over any holy book...but I do think that scientists are still just scratching the surface...or if anything working from the "top, down" as opposed to "bottom, up".

No. Scientist have done the "bottom up" experiments and they work! Without God.

You can simulate abiotic conditions of 4 Billion years ago with basic molecules like Hydrogen Cyanide, water, Sulphur etc and discharge some electricity (lightning) and Bingo! You get the bases and sugars required to make RNA. RNA can carry out all the functions in isolation, for its own replication and may have done so before proteins were similarly made. Indeed proteins can be made in the test tube and they clump and look like "protoalive" lumps like primitive cells in our archaeological records. So there are stages of these intermediates between the non-alive and the alive. It didn't all have to happen at once. These chemicals can hang around for millions of years until another one is synthesised, much like crystal growths, abiotically, and then interact with more complex molecules and a 'metabolic pathway' is initiated ... and the rest is history!

[cyprusgrump]

Sounds like he is suffering from typical physical scientist's superiority complex. Just because he can programme some computer stuff he thinks Biology is tapped!

Well what he doesn't realise is that unlike computer programmes DNA is self replicating (and contains its own inherent blueprint). If you* throw the chemicals in a test-tube they will self-assemble and take off without any guiding hand or intelligent designer to hand.

DNA is God on planet Earth.

And Man is nothing special ...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... ds-newsxml

I don't think it's because he can program computers, but rather because he's noticed a starking similarity in how computer code functions, to that of DNA. I'm sure there are differences but the parallels are truly astounding if you were to really look into it.

I think Epiktitos has shown you how that striking similarity came into being. Programmers mimicking biological systems.

Of course DNA/RNA are the systems which evolved/survived here on Earth. There may be other equally simple self-replicating codes which function in other atmospheres.

Even the definition of 'genetic code' in the dictionary begins with "the biochemical instructions". You can't have instructions without an instructor....you can't have a code without some form of intelligence behind it full stop!

The dictionary definition is the end result of a linguistic explanation and nothing more.

Have you ever grown crystal gardens? The "information" to generate more and more complex forms is within the molecules of Potassium permanganate, Copper sulphate etc. God isn't sitting there directing them.

Don't get me wrong, I much prefer scientific research over any holy book...but I do think that scientists are still just scratching the surface...or if anything working from the "top, down" as opposed to "bottom, up".

No. Scientist have done the "bottom up" experiments and they work! Without God.

You can simulate abiotic conditions of 4 Billion years ago with basic molecules like Hydrogen Cyanide, water, Sulphur etc and discharge some electricity (lightning) and Bingo! You get the bases and sugars required to make RNA. RNA can carry out all the functions in isolation, for its own replication and may have done so before proteins were similarly made. Indeed proteins can be made in the test tube and they clump and look like "protoalive" lumps like primitive cells in our archaeological records. So there are stages of these intermediates between the non-alive and the alive. It didn't all have to happen at once. These chemicals can hang around for millions of years until another one is synthesised, much like crystal growths, abiotically, and then interact with more complex molecules and a 'metabolic pathway' is initiated ... and the rest is history!

Excellent post Oracle!

[georgios100]

DNA is created by mother nature, not God. The fact that DNA evolves in time is the only proof that nature is at work all the time, not God.

God is a refuge for the weak. Additionally, whatever science has yet to explain, God created... (for now).

I am not impressed with DNA numbers, has nothing to do with God. I am still waiting for concrete proof of God's existence... and please, no more Youtube links! This is ridiculous!

And something else.

If both GCs & TCs had the same religion, the Cyprob would have never existed.

Think about that. This is why religion & politics don't mix.

Georgios100

[CBBB]

http://spam.webs.com

I think you need treatment for this nervous stutter you have!

[cyprusgrump]

Well, intermoon hasn't been able to present his proof that god exists - it must have been harder than he thought!