Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Almost funny, too dry! You can do better. Had a look under the bed?

Erm Koshi... What do you know about him? I'm curious!

Is that the village of Goshi/Koshi(Koçyatağı)? or something else?

Thanks! You're right.

I thought he mentioned a fella by the name of Nicos Koshi who was Minister of Transport at one stage. I thought he was insinuating something sinister. This had me alarmed for personal reasons.

KOSHI, Nicos. Code-names: Lertas and Markhas. (Born 1933 in Dhali, he planned to attend university, but joined Eoka instead and became the 'private secretary' to an Eoka leader in Morphou/Guzelyurt area. The British saw him as a high value target and offered bribes to tempt villagers to betray him. The fact that nobody did suggests a remarkable degree of solidarity and sincerity on the part of the Greek Cypriot rebels - or intense fear of reprisal by Eoka. He was eventually arrested on 8 December 1956, but escaped.

He claimed later the British had tortured him at the Kokkinotrimithia and the Pyla/Pile Detention Camps. In an interview in July 1974, he denied he was a terrorist. 'I am a freedom fighter,' he insisted. 'I could not kill a British civilian. I don't agree with putting bombs in civilian places, such as shopping areas. I didn't and never would do that. You can take it that I am totally opposed to this form of indiscriminate terror: the way they do it now in several countries, putting bombs in buses, even in cinemas and places like that. I don't agree with that, or with hijack, or with kidnap. None of it. We were fighting against the British Army, as soldiers.' About his capture and escape, he said: 'I was arrested in the mountains. That night I had gone to visit somebody in Dhali. I was only there a few hours before British troops surrounded our house. Earlier the same day, one of my men had been captured. They had beaten him a lot. Eventually, he named me as his leader.'

He alleged British 'Specials' routinely tortured their prisoners. One particularly sadistic torturer was known as L. 'They beat me with everything. They stuck pins in me and pushed burning cigarettes into my chest. I was naked, my hands tied together behind my back.' Led by L, three British Special Branch officers took turns,' he said. 'They beat me for hours and hours, day and night. I was a fighter. If I captured British soldiers, I could kill them, yes. But not torture them. That I could not do.' Ironically, he added, 'Two Irish soldiers helped me escape. When peace came in 1959, I was a wanted man, up in the mountains: leader of a district in the struggle against the British. We were desperate people who had vowed to free ourselves from the British oppressors. Now? We like the British. I tell you, in 1960 I went to London to the London Clinic, to be treated for ulcers!'

http://www.britains-smallwars.com/cypru ... ist_k.html

[BirKibrisli]

Come on,people...We are all capable of more than just black/white thinking...

There are no 2 Birs here...I am the same person who advocated a democratic Unitary State without any consideration of peoples ethnic backgrounds..I STILL believe that is the best the ideal solution,if we want to progress from two communities to One people,One nation...If it was upto me I would take a shortcut...i would forbid young Cypriots to marry someone from their own ethnic background...Imagine if every single marriage for the next 50 years were between people of dfiferent ethnic backgrounds..What would we have then??? A nation of Cypriots....

What I am trying to tell you now is this: If you want to have a unitary state,like I want to have a unitary state,we need to come to terms with our bloody history...The TCs have been deeply traumatised by the events between 1955 and 1974...They will not accept to put themselves in the same situation again...A situation where they would be at the mercy of the fanatical GCs who are still very prominent in forums like this......When I say that I get accused of supporting theives who want to gain at GC expense...Some even accuse ME of being a thief...That is a terrible insult for someone who have lost everything and lived in exile for over 40 years...On top I get accused of being a partitionist...

If we want a peaceful and lasting solution we must improve mutual respect and trust and understanding...These are not mere words..They represent tangible feelings and sates of mind which can be achieved if we try hard enough...To say lets forget the past ,just look at the future,lets all embrace democracy,human rights and EU principles,might make some here feel intelligent and morally superior,but it has no chance of success...

If you want your minority to trust you,do not tell them they are imagining things in the past,what they lived through didn't really happen...don't insult them,dont call them names like thieves or fascists or racists or partitionists...Try to understand where they are coming from,and show some empathy and compassion...If you consider me a partitionist,then there is really no hope for Cyprus,as Bananiot fully understands..Try to understand what I am telling you,and we might one day come to a point we can have True and permanent reunification...But the status quo have to end as soon as possible for us to have a chance...There will not be anybody left withing 25 years who will want to reunite with anyone...

OK Bir, fair enough. You've told us what GC's need to do. I don't agree with some of it but I respect that its your opinion.

Now tell us, what do you think the TC's need to do to.

The TCs have to do their part in promoting mutual trust and understanding and respect,DT...It is a 2-way street...

The TCs have to understand the trauma suffered by the GCs during and post 74...They are merciless on the EOKA,they have to be more critical of the role of the TMT...They need to understand that the demand for ENOSIS was perfectly natural for the times...It was not necessarily against them...They need to appreciate the role of TMT in promoting Taksim...And the difficulties of running the RoC government under the 1960 Constitution...Both sides have to stop this we are all right you are all wrong attitude,and take responsiblity for their actions...Both sides need to allow themselves to feel ASHAMED FOR THEIR ROLE IN IN THE DESTRUCTION OF THE ORIGINAL REPUBLIC...This shame will lead to collective responsibility for our past actions...We must all learn to move from being guilty to being responsible...

The TCs need to accept that many attrocities took place during the invasion/intervention,and allow themselves to feel guilty about it...They should try to appreciate what it means to be thrown out of your home at gunpoint,and have 40,000 foreign soldiers in your country...They should not justify it by saying "it serves them right"...They should appreciate more the feelings of the GC regarding any special consideration given to the TCs for simply being of a different background...They should realise that "national pride" works both ways,and it is the primary food of fascism...Both sides should realise that what they read in official history books are a white-washed version of the events...Both sides should consider how they can unite under the banner "never again" and "violence and terror can and will be stopped"...Both sides should show more empathy and compassion for the victims of this conflict,instead of continually blame each other..And both sides should realise promoting offical propaganda will only keep the status quo going...
And both sides should get it in their heads that the status quo will only lead to one thing...I don't ned to tell you what that is...

There are lots of other things I can talk about but these will do for now...

[wyoming cowboy]

Come on,people...We are all capable of more than just black/white thinking...

There are no 2 Birs here...I am the same person who advocated a democratic Unitary State without any consideration of peoples ethnic backgrounds..I STILL believe that is the best the ideal solution,if we want to progress from two communities to One people,One nation...If it was upto me I would take a shortcut...i would forbid young Cypriots to marry someone from their own ethnic background...Imagine if every single marriage for the next 50 years were between people of dfiferent ethnic backgrounds..What would we have then??? A nation of Cypriots....

What I am trying to tell you now is this: If you want to have a unitary state,like I want to have a unitary state,we need to come to terms with our bloody history...The TCs have been deeply traumatised by the events between 1955 and 1974...They will not accept to put themselves in the same situation again...A situation where they would be at the mercy of the fanatical GCs who are still very prominent in forums like this......When I say that I get accused of supporting theives who want to gain at GC expense...Some even accuse ME of being a thief...That is a terrible insult for someone who have lost everything and lived in exile for over 40 years...On top I get accused of being a partitionist...

If we want a peaceful and lasting solution we must improve mutual respect and trust and understanding...These are not mere words..They represent tangible feelings and sates of mind which can be achieved if we try hard enough...To say lets forget the past ,just look at the future,lets all embrace democracy,human rights and EU principles,might make some here feel intelligent and morally superior,but it has no chance of success...

If you want your minority to trust you,do not tell them they are imagining things in the past,what they lived through didn't really happen...don't insult them,dont call them names like thieves or fascists or racists or partitionists...Try to understand where they are coming from,and show some empathy and compassion...If you consider me a partitionist,then there is really no hope for Cyprus,as Bananiot fully understands..Try to understand what I am telling you,and we might one day come to a point we can have True and permanent reunification...But the status quo have to end as soon as possible for us to have a chance...There will not be anybody left withing 25 years who will want to reunite with anyone...

Bir, we are also traumatised by the events between 1571 and 2010. You seem to support the Turkish propaganda which puts all the blame on GCs for what happened in the past, but an objective examination of history will show to you that it is the Turks and TCs who initiated the wars and conflicts and that it is the GCs who suffered for the longest periods and had the most casualties. These are just basic facts you finally need to accept. Nobody denies that TCs did suffer during that 1 decade, but it time for you to stop denying that GCs suffered not only during that one decade, but also before and after that decade also.

Therefore your belief that GCs should be the ones who should "pay" for what happened in the past is provocative to say the least. If you truly want a united Cyprus then you should stop trying to punish innocent people.

You say that we should stop calling TCs "thieves", "racists" etc. How about if we followed your approach and demanded the human rights violations of TCs as a punishment for what they did in the past (and what they continue doing today), would that be better approach? I believe not.

Personally I never called all TCs as being "thieves", "racists" etc. What makes somebody a racist is not his ethnicity, but what he supports. When somebody supports the segregation and discrimination of the citizens of a country based on their ethnicity this makes his a racist (and a partitionist) and I reserve my right to call such people what I believe they truly are.

Cyprus is not the only country which had conflicts between its ethnic groups. This happened in many countries. The solution for the future is not to try to punish any side. If that was the case then we would want to punish you, and you would want to punish us, and as a result the circle of blood and suffering would continue indefinitely.

These anachronistic divisions that plagued Cyprus from the time of the Ottomans and were also forced in to the 1960 Constitution should finally be replaced with a modern democratic system that is based on the citizens, and not based on religious or ethnic groups.

In the 21st century you can not divide citizens into Christians and Muslims or Greeks and Turks. The citizens of Cyprus can be of any religion (or no religion at all), and can be of any ethnic background, not necessarily Greek or Turkish.

The religion and ethnicity of each citizen should be seen as his own personal attributes or choice, in the same way that is the team he supports, his political views or his sexual orientation, and these personal attributes and choices should not affect in any way the rights that each Cypriot citizen can have.

So lets stop the lame excuses for keeping Cyprus in the past and lets move in the 21st century. Many other countries, with much worst problems between their ethnic or religious groups, managed to do so, and so can we if we agree that this is what we want. (if what you want is partition, like VP, then nothing will convince you of course)

I agree with you Piratis, neither side should be trying to draw blood from the other for the past. We all suffered in the past. A long lasting just solution will go a long way in healing peoples wounds. The wanting from both sides of awknowledgement of atrocities before the solution is impossible. We are both technically at war with each other...The mutual understanding and respect will have to come after the solution is implemented..Someone once said ...."the first casualty in a war, is truth",,There is no way that the instigators from both sides will be allowed to come forth when we are at a state of war with these people....If you remember the Turk actor who came forth and said that he executed a GC in cold blood, The Turk media castigated him and made him look like a lunatic. When the societies on both sides of the Green line are free to express themselves, then thats when the empathy and understanding will come out....Demanding that it be awknowledge now before the solution is impossible.....

[kentish]

Greek Cypriots have done nothing to earn my trust so I want partition to last and last.What has happened is the result of past events and I never hear anything conciliatary from Greek Cypriots who only want want want.Well you can want all you like this mess has happened and I dont see any solution possible because want want want does not result in a solution.
The result of years of take take take from Greek Cypriots is the presence of the Turkish peacekeeping force and tell you what when I visit I feel safe.
I feel much better if GC tread north as visitors and TC tread south as visitors.
I very much doubt this situation will change in the lifetime of anyone on this forum.
If any GC says the EU will keep you safe,up yours why quote the EU, tell us we are safe with you.I would not turn my back if I was in the same room as the murder condoning swine Oracle

[wyoming cowboy]

Come on,people...We are all capable of more than just black/white thinking...

There are no 2 Birs here...I am the same person who advocated a democratic Unitary State without any consideration of peoples ethnic backgrounds..I STILL believe that is the best the ideal solution,if we want to progress from two communities to One people,One nation...If it was upto me I would take a shortcut...i would forbid young Cypriots to marry someone from their own ethnic background...Imagine if every single marriage for the next 50 years were between people of dfiferent ethnic backgrounds..What would we have then??? A nation of Cypriots....

What I am trying to tell you now is this: If you want to have a unitary state,like I want to have a unitary state,we need to come to terms with our bloody history...The TCs have been deeply traumatised by the events between 1955 and 1974...They will not accept to put themselves in the same situation again...A situation where they would be at the mercy of the fanatical GCs who are still very prominent in forums like this......When I say that I get accused of supporting theives who want to gain at GC expense...Some even accuse ME of being a thief...That is a terrible insult for someone who have lost everything and lived in exile for over 40 years...On top I get accused of being a partitionist...

If we want a peaceful and lasting solution we must improve mutual respect and trust and understanding...These are not mere words..They represent tangible feelings and sates of mind which can be achieved if we try hard enough...To say lets forget the past ,just look at the future,lets all embrace democracy,human rights and EU principles,might make some here feel intelligent and morally superior,but it has no chance of success...

If you want your minority to trust you,do not tell them they are imagining things in the past,what they lived through didn't really happen...don't insult them,dont call them names like thieves or fascists or racists or partitionists...Try to understand where they are coming from,and show some empathy and compassion...If you consider me a partitionist,then there is really no hope for Cyprus,as Bananiot fully understands..Try to understand what I am telling you,and we might one day come to a point we can have True and permanent reunification...But the status quo have to end as soon as possible for us to have a chance...There will not be anybody left withing 25 years who will want to reunite with anyone...

OK Bir, fair enough. You've told us what GC's need to do. I don't agree with some of it but I respect that its your opinion.

Now tell us, what do you think the TC's need to do to.

The TCs have to do their part in promoting mutual trust and understanding and respect,DT...It is a 2-way street...

The TCs have to understand the trauma suffered by the GCs during and post 74...They are merciless on the EOKA,they have to be more critical of the role of the TMT...They need to understand that the demand for ENOSIS was perfectly natural for the times...It was not necessarily against them...They need to appreciate the role of TMT in promoting Taksim...And the difficulties of running the RoC government under the 1960 Constitution...Both sides have to stop this we are all right you are all wrong attitude,and take responsiblity for their actions...Both sides need to allow themselves to feel ASHAMED FOR THEIR ROLE IN IN THE DESTRUCTION OF THE ORIGINAL REPUBLIC...This shame will lead to collective responsibility for our past actions...We must all learn to move from being guilty to being responsible...

The TCs need to accept that many attrocities took place during the invasion/intervention,and allow themselves to feel guilty about it...They should try to appreciate what it means to be thrown out of your home at gunpoint,and have 40,000 foreign soldiers in your country...They should not justify it by saying "it serves them right"...They should appreciate more the feelings of the GC regarding any special consideration given to the TCs for simply being of a different background...They should realise that "national pride" works both ways,and it is the primary food of fascism...Both sides should realise that what they read in official history books are a white-washed version of the events...Both sides should consider how they can unite under the banner "never again" and "violence and terror can and will be stopped"...Both sides should show more empathy and compassion for the victims of this conflict,instead of continually blame each other..And both sides should realise promoting offical propaganda will only keep the status quo going...
And both sides should get it in their heads that the status quo will only lead to one thing...I don't ned to tell you what that is...

There are lots of other things I can talk about but these will do for now...

Bir I agree with the content of your post, but lets be realistic we are at war with each other, noone from either side is allowed to show empathy for the enemy because at this point they would be called traitors.....You need to be realistic about when this thing or reapproachment will happen you cannot be at war and have reapproachment, Compassion and empathy will come after the solution when both sides trust each other and everyone wants to open up the ears and listen....i was foolish enough to believe that when the Green line opened up that the Cafes in Nicosia would be mingling with Gc Tc kids together discussing their futures together but when you go there and see the cafe's they are segrated among Gc and Tc....noone now wants to sit down and admit guilt....

[samarkeolog]

Our dear friend poor samarkeolog turns up - unexpectedly.

It was a surprise!

At least it wasn't in anything written by Kufi Seydali or Ata Atun...

[wyoming cowboy]

Greek Cypriots have done nothing to earn my trust so I want partition to last and last.What has happened is the result of past events and I never hear anything conciliatary from Greek Cypriots who only want want want.Well you can want all you like this mess has happened and I dont see any solution possible because want want want does not result in a solution.
The result of years of take take take from Greek Cypriots is the presence of the Turkish peacekeeping force and tell you what when I visit I feel safe.
I feel much better if GC tread north as visitors and TC tread south as visitors.
I very much doubt this situation will change in the lifetime of anyone on this forum.
If any GC says the EU will keep you safe,up yours why quote the EU, tell us we are safe with you.I would not turn my back if I was in the same room as the murder condoning swine Oracle

This is a perfect example of making it hard to show any empathy or understanding to the other side......We are at war with each other......This person is accusing the Gc of wanting to kill her....blah blah blah Did this person live through the war years or is she an offspring thats been indoctrinated by the Tc regime to think like she does....We too have the same types....If our leaders dont take that step of faith towards a solution then there wont be empathy and understanding....and if we dont push our leaders they wont move in any direction

[kentish]

Greek Cypriots have done nothing to earn my trust so I want partition to last and last.What has happened is the result of past events and I never hear anything conciliatary from Greek Cypriots who only want want want.Well you can want all you like this mess has happened and I dont see any solution possible because want want want does not result in a solution.
The result of years of take take take from Greek Cypriots is the presence of the Turkish peacekeeping force and tell you what when I visit I feel safe.
I feel much better if GC tread north as visitors and TC tread south as visitors.
I very much doubt this situation will change in the lifetime of anyone on this forum.
If any GC says the EU will keep you safe,up yours why quote the EU, tell us we are safe with you.I would not turn my back if I was in the same room as the murder condoning swine Oracle

This is a perfect example of making it hard to show any empathy or understanding to the other side......We are at war with each other......This person is accusing the Gc of wanting to kill her....blah blah blah Did this person live through the war years or is she an offspring thats been indoctrinated by the Tc regime to think like she does....We too have the same types....If our leaders dont take that step of faith towards a solution then there wont be empathy and understanding....and if we dont push our leaders they wont move in any direction

exactly i make no apologies,say something or better still do something

[Get Real!]

Greek Cypriots have done nothing to earn my trust so I want partition to last and last.

But who cares about earning your trust?

What’s of primary importance is the overwhelming majority indigenous population of Cyprus, and everyone else should mould themselves around that …not the other way round!

[kentish]

correct ,you do not care,just as I thought.we are also indigenous but all you want want want to do is impose your will because you are bigger.fortunately for us size no longer matters due to the peacekeeping force.i bet you poo yourself when you see them.