Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

I do not quite follow how Bananiot and Bir are partitionists.

As for the "few" incidents of intercommunal violence, presumably these were the clashes of 1963-64, they were more than a few. The mere creation of the National Guard in 1964 proves that the GC community as a whole did not regard this as a minor matter, it was the first establishment of a standing army in the history of Cyprus.

That's because it was the first time Cyprus attempted to function as an independent state!

Are you condoning partition to affect over million people on the basis of a few hundred deaths?

As an independent state, Cyprus had a Cyprus army made up from GCs and TCs.

[yorgozlu]

Who are the real partitionists?

This is coming from a person (I hope) that exposes his/her/it haterance about TURKS at every opportunity.

You are having a lough,aren't you?

[Piratis]

If what you want is to divide Cyprus into two parts (countries, states, zones, whatever) then by definition you are a partitionist.

If you just accept a form of partition (in order to avoid a worst form of partition) then you are not a partitionist.

Bananiot is not a partitionist since he admitted that what he wants is a unitary state. The same is true for most GCs. A true unification is not possible today, so we all choose to accept the kind of partition that we believe is the least bad. (most of us believe that the de facto partition we have now which at least allows the possibility for unification is the least bad partition, compared with other options that would make this partition legal and permanent).

About Bir I don't know. As DT said there have been two Birs in this forum. It seems that the second one wants partition, while the first one preferred a unitary Cyprus.

[Viewpoint]

A unitary state gives you GCs 100% of what you want and thats the whole island to do with as you please regardless of what we want. When will you understand that there is no going back or taking a jump of fait into a unitary state, the only way TCs will unite is via a BBF with political equality of the 2 states...otherwise as the TCs have voted clearing statting they would rather go on as is than accept a crappy deal giving GCs 100% control under the pretex of "democracy" and "human rights" administered GC style.

[wyoming cowboy]

A unitary state gives you GCs 100% of what you want and thats the whole island to do with as you please regardless of what we want. When will you understand that there is no going back or taking a jump of fait into a unitary state, the only way TCs will unite is via a BBF with political equality of the 2 states...otherwise as the TCs have voted clearing statting they would rather go on as is than accept a crappy deal giving GCs 100% control under the pretex of "democracy" and "human rights" administered GC style.

How can that be possible in a true BBF, The Federal government only has control of 4-6 items the rest will fall on the individual states to decide for themselves. How do you see a possibility of your rights being violated?

[wyoming cowboy]

If what you want is to divide Cyprus into two parts (countries, states, zones, whatever) then by definition you are a partitionist.

If you just accept a form of partition (in order to avoid a worst form of partition) then you are not a partitionist.

Bananiot is not a partitionist since he admitted that what he wants is a unitary state. The same is true for most GCs. A true unification is not possible today, so we all choose to accept the kind of partition that we believe is the least bad. (most of us believe that the de facto partition we have now which at least allows the possibility for unification is the least bad partition, compared with other options that would make this partition legal and permanent).

About Bir I don't know. As DT said there have been two Birs in this forum. It seems that the second one wants partition, while the first one preferred a unitary Cyprus.

How can a least bad unification be acceptable to the majority Gc, How can someones vote be counted by only 20 %, and call it a democracy, or the minority having the foreign ministry or Eu ministry, wouldnt the 18 percent minority be the ones making the foreign policy decisions for all of Cyprus......Or that every three years a Tc has to serve as president, Its stupid to even negotiate

[repulsewarrior]

...what is wanted, if you are not partitionist, is a unitary state. as cypriots the choice is even more focused because under that context we seek to define the Rights of Persons as well. beyond the vast majority being "Greek", there are the issues of Humanity which should concern "us". the challenge is looking forward to somehing as yet unknown and completely different, as cypriots.

[BirKibrisli]

Come on,people...We are all capable of more than just black/white thinking...

There are no 2 Birs here...I am the same person who advocated a democratic Unitary State without any consideration of peoples ethnic backgrounds..I STILL believe that is the best the ideal solution,if we want to progress from two communities to One people,One nation...If it was upto me I would take a shortcut...i would forbid young Cypriots to marry someone from their own ethnic background...Imagine if every single marriage for the next 50 years were between people of dfiferent ethnic backgrounds..What would we have then??? A nation of Cypriots....

What I am trying to tell you now is this: If you want to have a unitary state,like I want to have a unitary state,we need to come to terms with our bloody history...The TCs have been deeply traumatised by the events between 1955 and 1974...They will not accept to put themselves in the same situation again...A situation where they would be at the mercy of the fanatical GCs who are still very prominent in forums like this......When I say that I get accused of supporting theives who want to gain at GC expense...Some even accuse ME of being a thief...That is a terrible insult for someone who have lost everything and lived in exile for over 40 years...On top I get accused of being a partitionist...

If we want a peaceful and lasting solution we must improve mutual respect and trust and understanding...These are not mere words..They represent tangible feelings and sates of mind which can be achieved if we try hard enough...To say lets forget the past ,just look at the future,lets all embrace democracy,human rights and EU principles,might make some here feel intelligent and morally superior,but it has no chance of success...

If you want your minority to trust you,do not tell them they are imagining things in the past,what they lived through didn't really happen...don't insult them,dont call them names like thieves or fascists or racists or partitionists...Try to understand where they are coming from,and show some empathy and compassion...If you consider me a partitionist,then there is really no hope for Cyprus,as Bananiot fully understands..Try to understand what I am telling you,and we might one day come to a point we can have True and permanent reunification...But the status quo have to end as soon as possible for us to have a chance...There will not be anybody left withing 25 years who will want to reunite with anyone...

[Paphitis]

If what you want is to divide Cyprus into two parts (countries, states, zones, whatever) then by definition you are a partitionist.

If you just accept a form of partition (in order to avoid a worst form of partition) then you are not a partitionist.

Bananiot is not a partitionist since he admitted that what he wants is a unitary state. The same is true for most GCs. A true unification is not possible today, so we all choose to accept the kind of partition that we believe is the least bad. (most of us believe that the de facto partition we have now which at least allows the possibility for unification is the least bad partition, compared with other options that would make this partition legal and permanent).

About Bir I don't know. As DT said there have been two Birs in this forum. It seems that the second one wants partition, while the first one preferred a unitary Cyprus.

This is correct!

Most Cypriots want a unitary State or true BBF which includes free movement and the right of settlement within any of the 2 administered zones. This is not partition.

Most TCs prefer a Confederacy, where basic rights will be violated based on race and where people will not have the right of settlement anywhere in Cyprus. The Annan Plan is a good example. This is partition.


Those that want the Status Quo to continue, only do so because they don't believe that any proposed plan has been or will ever be better than the Status Quo. Then we have the pragmatists who are happy to maintain the Status Quo up until something better comes along, which may include fully agreed partition along the lines of a fair 80:20 split. These people are not partitionists, since they would no doubt prefer a unitary state but believe that such a solution is not achievable, and because they don't believe that any Confederacy plan or True BBF solution will be workable over the longer term.

Those that are partitionists are the racists, who want to divide Cyprus into 2 zones and afford rights to citizens based on race. This is the type of solution that results in some Cypriots favouring agreed partition on an 80:20 basis, because they believe that this is a better option, but not the overall best option of unitary state.

But for this to occur, the TCs need to offer it, and the GCs need to unanimously accept it. If it is not unanimously accepted, then this is OK because everyone needs to vote in accordance with their conscious. There are no right or wrong decisions.

Basically, those that want agreed partition are mostly wanting it to avoid a worst type of partition such as the Annan Plan.

[BirKibrisli]

If what you want is to divide Cyprus into two parts (countries, states, zones, whatever) then by definition you are a partitionist.

If you just accept a form of partition (in order to avoid a worst form of partition) then you are not a partitionist.

Bananiot is not a partitionist since he admitted that what he wants is a unitary state. The same is true for most GCs. A true unification is not possible today, so we all choose to accept the kind of partition that we believe is the least bad. (most of us believe that the de facto partition we have now which at least allows the possibility for unification is the least bad partition, compared with other options that would make this partition legal and permanent).

About Bir I don't know. As DT said there have been two Birs in this forum. It seems that the second one wants partition, while the first one preferred a unitary Cyprus.

This is correct!

Most Cypriots want a unitary State or true BBF which includes free movement and the right of settlement within any of the 2 administered zones. This is not partition.

Most TCs prefer a Confederacy, where basic rights will be violated based on race and where people will not have the right of settlement anywhere in Cyprus. The Annan Plan is a good example. This is partition.


Those that want the Status Quo to continue, only do so because they don't believe that any proposed plan has been or will ever be better than the Status Quo. Then we have the pragmatists who are happy to maintain the Status Quo up until something better comes along, which may include fully agreed partition along the lines of a fair 80:20 split. These people are not partitionists, since they would no doubt prefer a unitary state but believe that such a solution is not achievable, and because they don't believe that any Confederacy plan or True BBF solution will be workable over the longer term.

Those that are partitionists are the racists, who want to divide Cyprus into 2 zones and afford rights to citizens based on race. This is the type of solution that results in some Cypriots favouring agreed partition on an 80:20 basis, because they believe that this is a better option, but not the overall best option of unitary state.

But for this to occur, the TCs need to offer it, and the GCs need to unanimously accept it. If it is not unanimously accepted, then this is OK because everyone needs to vote in accordance with their conscious. There are no right or wrong decisions.

Basically, those that want agreed partition are mostly wanting it to avoid a worst type of partition such as the Annan Plan.

until you and Piratis find the objectivity to get away from the official GC (read ROC) propaganda lines,there will be no solution...And the status quo will only lead to Partition...Agreed or otherwise...