Cyprus-Forum.com

[Acikgoz]

Pyrpo, to be honest I started reading his post then realised it was still populated with his ususal blah - blame the world but not GCs. Skimmed the rest and I saw a silly statement and thought better raise it as it speaks to one about the the method he uses to prove his point of view - flawed.

In the meantime, your point on the refugees sounded has me scratching my head - you're kinda suggesting those with properties that could have had them back were on the same side as those that wish not to compromise the RoC position of power. Ergo, politics over possessions is primary across all GCs - thanks for informing me.

[Pyrpolizer]

Pyrpo, to be honest I started reading his post then realised it was still populated with his ususal blah - blame the world but not GCs. Skimmed the rest and I saw a silly statement and thought better raise it as it speaks to one about the the method he uses to prove his point of view - flawed.

In the meantime, your point on the refugees sounded has me scratching my head - you're kinda suggesting those with properties that could have had them back were on the same side as those that wish not to compromise the RoC position of power. Ergo, politics over possessions is primary across all GCs - thanks for informing me.

With all due respect Acikgoz, but i don't think we two understand each other very well.How on Earth did you come up to that conclusion from what I said?

Anyway the Anan Plan is lmost 6 years old, i don't remember the details very well. This matters were discussed thoroughly then, it's too late now to make a necropsy.

Here's a nice analysis of the property issue that I wrote here when everything was fresh in my mind. Please read it and if you still have any doubts let me know


According to the Anan Plan some 8% of the land will be returned under GC administration.However for a refugee to return to his property, this should be free. A property is not free if: (a) if it is used for public purposes (School, street, governmental building, medical centre etc) (b) if it is used or required for military purposes (c) if it is used for 10 continuous years by a TC, and the Turkish Cypriot has his own property that he wishes to exchange (d) if the property has been subtantially improved by the TC or Settler user. (e) if it belongs to Organisations (that is to say companies, associations, institutions etc). This property will be compensated.

Based on the Anan Plan the matter of properties will be solved based on international law, the rights of the oweners (refugees) the bizonality, and the rights of current users (TCs and settlers). From there and beyond there are two groups of refugees
(a) those that will return in the TC Constituent state and (b) those who will return in the GC Constituent state.

(a) Return under TC administration
The Greekcypriots should not exceed the 1% of population of the TC Constituent state the first year of agreement, the 2% the second year, the 7% in the seventh year etc etc upto 20% in the twentieth year. (1% per year) After the twenty years (I believe finally they got reduced to 15) the return will be freer and the Greekcypriots can reach upto one third of TC population. However, because the return of refugees is connected directly with the regulation of the matter of properties, the return of these refugees is impended, because: according to the moratorium no property will be returned before the first 3-5 years. So, the first 4 years it will not be possible for the 4% of refugees (about 8000 people) to return. The Anan Plan is conflicting!
Furthermore: In order for someone to return he must get approval from the Council of Properties, which Council will accept applications for one year after the signature of the fundamental agreement and for another year after the implementation. That is to say the process of applications will be completed roughly two years after the signature of the primary Agreement. Then it will begin examining the applications… But once again, the poor refugee who will finally get approval, will NOT be eligible to return because there are another 3 conditions: a) The Council of properties must have decided for at least the 90% of the applications b) the percentages(1% per year) are met, and the applicants age gives him priority over other applicants and c) An alternative roof for the family that already lives in the house is found.

Tell me how many years are need for all these to happen, considering how many thousands applications this Council of Properties will receive, and how many thousands homes should be built before some refugees could finally return to their houses.

(b) Return under Greek-Cypriot administration

In order for a refugee to return the property must first be declared returnable by the Council of Properties. Provided however the property is used, then this property will only be returned when the present user is settled elsewhere. This process will last according to the Plan three years maximum from the signature of Agreement. That is to say in the first three years, the TCcomponent state is oblidged to accomodate the 40-45 thousands that live today in these regions. Where and how only God knows. Many of them will have the right to remain in the properties if they buy the property or get accomodated privately in the region.

[Pyrpolizer]

Also if you like you can go back in this forum in the period after April 2004 upto 2005 there were too many discussions/articles. Some fanatically opposed some opposed with good arguments.
I just stumbled upon this one, propably was written by a fanatic but still has valid arguments
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1805

I personally have NOT SEEN not even one analysis of the Anan plan to convince me with facts that it was a good plan....

[YFred]

Also if you like you can go back in this forum in the period after April 2004 upto 2005 there were too many discussions/articles. Some fanatically opposed some opposed with good arguments.
I just stumbled upon this one, propably was written by a fanatic but still has valid arguments
http://www.cyprus-forum.com/viewtopic.php?t=1805

I personally have NOT SEEN not even one analysis of the Anan plan to convince me with facts that it was a good plan....

May I be so bold as to ask when you had your eyes checked last?
How could you have missed Turkey, Greece, EU, US and UN. Bloody hell were you on this planet at the time? Sorry I forget you live in australia, too much blood in the brain mate. Try doing hand stands to see if your vision improves.
My doctor friend says that it is a common complaint in the southern hemisphere from constant walking upside down and all that, what?

[Pyrpolizer]

Show them to me. Be sure the analysis is factual.

I actually live in Papua.

[YFred]

Show them to me. Be sure the analysis is factual.

I actually live in Papua.

You missed all the recommendations Greece, EU and UN made? and you now want me to find links to them? Of course you also missed how disgusted the eu representative was about the way the media treated the pro Anan plan GCs. No wonder you missed them.
Anything else?

[Pyrpolizer]

I said analyses based on facts, paragraph by paragraph as per what Anan Plan says. Not recommendations. I have my own mind to make my own conclussions after i read them.

If you don't have any Yfred you better go to laoban na shesis.

[YFred]

I said analyses based on fact, paragraph by paragraph as per Anan Plan. Not recommendations. I have my own mind to make my own conclussions i don't need anyone's recomendations.

Show me just ONE!

Just this one should have been enough. It would have facilitated the TCs being removed from the influence of Turkey, rather than total economic dependence. Just this fact should have been enough for our GCs cousins to vote for it. The TCs would have been eternally grateful and would have paid you back in kind in good time. But no it was all or nothing and inevitably we all ended with nothing.
But I think you'll find some more changes in the Cyprus policy of the EU and very soon too.

I hope you are happy with the reaction of the TCs so far.

[Oracle]

... during the ensuing 6 years ...

A week is a long time in politics ...

[BirKibrisli]

Dear Kikapu,

Thank you for the time and effort you put in replying to my post...I wish I had the energy and the motivation to give you an equally detailed response..But,to be honest,I am very disheartened these days about our ability to ever find a solution...I don't mean you and I,but those who are in charge of our fate,those whose responsibility it is to negotiate a fair and lasting solution...

I will make a few quick observations. I think we have spent enough time blaming the other side and everybody else we can think of for our predicament...This doesn't mean I do not appreciate the role "others" played in our conflict...The fact is nations,especially the big powers,always act in their own interest,and they see it justified to bend the world to their will...It is really up to us to wake up to this,and start taking our own fates in our own hands...To do this we must look objectively to the past,and the events which brought us here...And accept our part in it...The democratic system have a lot going for it,but it has one huge disadvantage...It is run by certain creatures called "politicians"...These people are driven by self-interest above all else...They are not about to be honest and open about the wrongs of their own side,as that would quickly put them out of favour with their voters...


We are stuck with each side pushing their own barrel,giving their own people the official propaganda line...This works well in getting them ,and sometimes keeping them in power,but does nothing to advance a solution based on truth and objectivity...

You and I can sit here and agree on everything but it will change nothing in the real world...The art of compromise is not easily practised by our "leaders",and when there is no compromise there can be no understanding or respect so needed to overcome long-held prejudices and animosity...

Yes, the ideal solution is one based on fundamental democratic and human values...But,No,that is beyond our reach at his point in time...We need the wisdom to realise this and do not insist on the impossible...That is the sure way to preserve the status quo,and forbid a solution...

Those who pretend to be the legitimate government of Cyprus,those who are in the majority who have had the strings of power and influence for so long, are largely responsible for promoting the necessary trust,respect and understanding between all Cypriots...The succesive RoC governments have failed to do this miserably in the past,and are only making a half hearted attempt at the moment...

Trying to shame the TCs into submission with taking the higher moral ground and harping on about democracy and human rights will get us nowhere...Once we all realise this we can look for other more realistic ways of solving the problem...In my opinion we need " 100 ovens full of bread"(to quote a TC saying) before we get to that position...Till then those who believe that "No Solution is a Solution" will be sleeping comfortably in their beds at night...