Hello,Kikapu...
I am relieved to know it was just the stranded relatives that kept you away from the forum,at a time when your presence was needed here...
I will say at the outset that I am NOT an expert on the Annan Plan...I only followed its progress on the internet,mostly via Turkish and TC newspapers...I was/am aware of the broad outlines but not the details...
That is why I said it may be the case that it is a disguised plan for partition...The immediate question that comes to mind is : Why would the UN general secretary put his name to a plan which was disguised to trick one side in this equation??? I don't expect an answer to that,as there is no logical one possible..It is just a thought...
Kikapu wrote:First of all Bir, and I ask this question with due respect, but how the hell do you know what the TCs knew what they were voting for and also did not know what they were voting for. Why do you want to make an assumption that they voted for unification and not for disguised partition. Is it because the AP was packaged as a "Unification" and not as a "Disguised Partition". Are these the only criteria you are going by.??
As i said above i followed the pre referandum period closely via the TC newspapers...All the reports and the comments by various journalist indicated that the TCs were voting for reunification...On the other side the Arch-partitionist Denktas and his followers were warning of the coming doomsday if the AP was accepted...People were in the streets calling for peace and Reunification in their tens of thousands,Kikapu...They truly b elieved,in my opinion,that this was the Real Thing...A just and lasting solution which would finally end decades of conflict and isolation...There was euphoria in the air,people were over the moon...
These people believed they were ending years of defacto Partition by voting to Reunify their country...That was the message loud and clear...Now you can argue that they were fooled,didn't really know what they were doing...And I can ask you the same question,how would you know??? For all intends and purposes,the TCs were voting for a final solution,for Reunification...Because they already had partition, and they wanted something else,standing up to those who wanted MORE of the SAME...
Just what did the TCs had to lose by voting on the AP. Nothing. They had everything to gain and nothing to lose.????
1. They were to have veto power and a rotating President
2. Their own state in the form of a Confederation based on "virgin birth, founding states" concept
3. RoC would seize to exits
4. Only few thousand GC would be allowed to live in the TC state, with no political rights, can't get government jobs without speaking Turkish and giving their allegiance to Atatürk
5. The GCs were to be the only people in the Turkish State who would not be allowed to pass on their properties to their heirs, or even buy property, and if they sold their properties, to be sold to a TC. Any foreigner in the north would have had more rights than the GCs.
6. The settlers were to be given citizenship to 45,000 registered voters, which meant a single voter could have a wife/husband and 2 children would amount to 200,000 in no time. The rest of the settlers were going to stay through one back door or another. The only ones that were going to be sent back, were the ones who came to Cyprus on the "last boat" as it were. Even then, as a Confederate state, they would have issued citizenship's to who ever they wanted, as the case is here in Switzerland. Citizenship's are not issued by the Central Government, but by individual Cantons and individual villages.
7. Turkish Troops withdrawal was going to be in the hands of Turkey and no one else's. Any kind of a problem could have been started deliberately to maintain them on the island. Who was going to make them leave.??
8. The Turkish state was going to be 29%
9. Almost all of the cost was going to come from the defunct RoC state to pay for the properties of the GCs at 1974 prices through some bond issues over 20+ years. The TCs would get their properties right away.
10. Using Nikitas's term, "the TCs were going to be masters in the north and partners in the south". Not a bad deal.!
What else did you expect ,Kikapu...???
They were planning a BBF,a Bizonal Bicommunal Federation...Not a Unitary state solution in disguise,if you get my meaning...
There had to be 2 geographical zones in which 2 different Cypriot communities would be guaranteed self-rule,to the extend possible...do you realise how difficult a job they had taking into account all the objections and sensitivities of both communities...?There had to be compromises in every aspect...The human rights of the settlers had to be balanced against the human rights of the refugees...The minority TC fears had to be balanced against the expectations of the majority GCs...So would the wishes and interests of the guarantor powers,not to mention the USA...Realistically they could do little else in my opinion...They did their best,and it was obviously not good enough for one of the sides...But suggesting that the UN went into all this trouble to disguise a plan and trick one of the sides is stretching the point just a bit...
The whole plan would have started as an Apartheid system from day one, then it would have become very clear soon thereafter that this system was not going to work, therefore tensions would have erupted. With the Turkish army still on the ground, the Turkish State, now a full member under United Cyprus would have asked for a Independence from the Union based on "irreconcilable differences" and would want to seek their own self determination. The EU would have had a very hard time denying the TC state to maintain their full EU membership. In the meantime, Turkey would have maintained their presence on the island as a guarantor power, because the GCs had already agreed for them to stay in the AP. Turkey would have had control of the south as well as the north. The AP was a masterpiece plan. It would have made the 1959 Zurich Agreements a child's play in comparison. Why do you think Talat and Turkey wanted to bring back the AP back for the recent talks. Why do you think all our NeoPartitionists friends on this forum talk about the AP as it were the second coming of Christ. The only thing that stood in the way of further catastrophe for Cyprus as a country was the 76% of the GC voters who said OXI to such a destructive partition plan
Now here you are stepping into the paranoid territory a la Piratis...
How do you know what would've happened in the future...Do you have a crystal ball? You question my judgement on the motivations of the TCs,following an event in the past,Kikapu,but here you are not shy of making dire predictions about the future...A bit surprising coming from you,because you like to place your arguments firmly on available facts or their interpretations, on every other issue...I say this is pure speculation based on a bit of paranoia and a bit of GC propaganda influence...You cannot use this as an argument to dismiss the merits of the AP...Remember that 27% of the GC voters said YES to the Plan...Do you consider consider these people ignorant fools or traitors to the GC cause???
But lets for the sake of argument I want to go along with you, just because I like you, and say that the TCs did not see the above benefits the AP had for them and that they were ignorant to the fact that they believed in their hearts to be a unification plan and not a disguised partition plan, then why is it, after 6 years when we know all the details of the AP where it was a Racist, Apartheid, Partition Plan, the TCs still voted in Erouglu who openly seek a 2 states which is a partition plan. If you want to excuse the TCs for being ignorant to the facts of the AP in 2004, what is the excuse today. ? You would think they would in fact do the opposite and say to Eroglu. "NO, your kind tried to fool us in 2004 and we will not vote for you", but instead, he was voted. What possible explanation is there, other than the fact, that the average TCs knew exactly what the AP was all about, and voted accordingly. I cannot buy into your theory that the TCs were so distraught for the GCs not saying YES to the "unification plan" as the TCs understood it at the time and are now voting for a partition leader to guide them. I feel somewhat insulted that we TCs are so fragile that if we had good intentions to find peace in what we thought was an honest peace plan with the AP, and just because the GCs said NO, we were going top make a 180° turn, and become all Partitionist. I'm sorry my friend, but I really can't buy that as being the reason. A lot of the reasons why Eroglu is in there has to do with all the illegal Alien voters and Turkey. I still believe there are many decent TCs who would like to have a Fair & Just settlement with the GCs, but NeoPartitionists will remain as such.
I believe the answer lies in the emotional nature of the Cypriots..And in their other characteristics...People who live in Cyprus are not like you and me,Kikapu...They are not obsessed with Cyprus problem,and they do not spend much time analysing it like we do here on this Forum...They are ordinary people who live with the problems day to day without giving them much thought...They get their opinions from the media and from family and friends,prettty much like any other country really,and they vote accordingly...There is a bit of herd instinct and a bit of manipulation...
They did feel terribly rejected by the GCs in 2004,believe me...They have long memories,and they were not impressed with their treatment by the EU either..I think all their experineces since 2004 have reinforced their own sense of isolation and mistreatment,and they gave the world the 2-finge salute,if you ask me...
The latest vote said "Denktas was right,we were ungrateful to Turkey b ack in 2004,we now realise we have only one friend in the world,one protector,and that is Turkey,and we are returning to her safe and reliable bossom"...That is the only explanation i can come up with..You can take it or leave it,mate..
