Cyprus-Forum.com

[Pyrpolizer]

Time for us all to put on our thinking caps...

In 2004 Turkish Cypriots voted by an overwhelming majority of 65% FOR a solution to reunite Cyprus...In 2010 they voted,albeit by a slim majority,FOR a President who is well known for his wish for a 2 state solution...So,what happened,or what did not happen,during the ensuing 6 years to bring about such a different result??? Please spend at least a couple of minutes seriously pondering this issue before putting fingers to keyboard...Thanks...

Hi Bir,

Sorry to have come late for the "party" of your thread, but to answer your question in just a few words, there is really NO difference between 2004 and the present time votes. The votes and the reasons for voting were and are the same. It only looks different when one reads your question to mean such as "voting for a solution in 2004" and "voting for a 2 state partition today".

Some people say "Tamato" and some people say "Tomato". It is the same damn thing, just said it differently by different people, that's all.!!

Hi,Kikapu...Where have you been? I was getting worried about you...

So,you belong to the same school which says the AP was a partitionist plan...That may be the case,but the TCs who voted in that referandum in 2004 did not believe it was a partitionist plan...They were voting for reunification....Cypriots are emotional people as you know...They wear it on their sleeve and they wear it in their votes...The rejection by the GCs was a terrible slap from which the TCs have not recovered,in my opinion...

The percieved betrayal of the EU (re the isolations and direct trade etc) was considered another slap...There were a lot of other reasons,but the main one I believe is still the manipulation of the settlers vote by Erdogan...You are right there...No country should allow their numbers to be overtaken by foreigners with voting rights,Recognised or Unrecognised...I do feel sorry for the decent,moral,saltofthearth TCs,as they must now feel insignificant pieces on a geopolitical chess board played by the big boys...

The 40% pro-unification TCs only needed that "unification" slogan to get convinced and vote yes. So you are partly right in what you said Bir. In fact this what the majority among that 35% GCs who voted yes needed too.

However you have to think what the remaining 25% of TCs who voted yes really thought about the Anan Plan. It is clear the remaining 35% were definite partitionists who would not be satisfied by anything less crystal and clear. So it is THAT 25% THAT MADE AND STILL MAKES THE DIFFERENCE. Those people are not pro-unification.They are pro either crystal clear partition or a disguised one.

It is that 25% that switched sides today and joined the other 35% to bring Eroglu to power.

Hello,dear Pyro...You might well be right...I know there was a lot of euphoria amongst the TCs at the time....People just got carried away with their emotions...Not many of them would've read the whole thing,let alone think about it deeply...I was amazed by one thing at the time...Morphou area,which was to be returned,also voted overwhelmingly for the AP...There were a lot of people happy to be made refugees for the second or third time...Was it you who said only the town would be returned but not the surrounding fields...???That was news to me...To be honest i hadnt read the whole plan carefully...I depended a lot on the TC newspapers for my information...The progressive ones were for it,the conservative ones against...I assumed it was a good plan...since Denktas too was opposing it...One thing I still insist on,it was better than the status quo for both sides,at least it gave us a chance to move on a little bit and see what the future would bring...As we are,we are slowly inching our way to certain partition...If you people are worried about partition,you must also worry about keeping the status quo for much longer,because soon Partition will be the only possible solution...The population in the North will vote for nothing else...

Yes Bir it was me who mentioned that only the town of Morfou would be returned not the agricultural land.

The vast majority of TCs living in Morfou are pro unification, I don't think that ever changed. If you ever manage to visit Morfou you will be schocked by the specific character of the TCs living there. The speak openly for the Turkish army as occupation force, they hate the Karsakalis to death, and the most striking thing is what??

Yferd, what?

Too mny of them have GREEK SURNAMES!!

Thir nmes are Turkish alright, but surname... Greek.

[Pyrpolizer]

Sorry Bir, I haven't quited answered in previous post so i continue my reply regarding your comments on the Anan Plan.
I will post later....

[BirKibrisli]

Sorry Bir, I haven't quited answered in previous post so i continue my reply regarding your comments on the Anan Plan.
I will post later....

While you are at it,tell me more about these Morphians with Greek surnames,never heard of it before...

[umit07]

Sorry Bir, I haven't quited answered in previous post so i continue my reply regarding your comments on the Anan Plan.
I will post later....

While you are at it,tell me more about these Morphians with Greek surnames,never heard of it before...

My family lives in Zodhia near Morphou , I've never heard of any having greek surnames.

[YFred]

Time for us all to put on our thinking caps...

In 2004 Turkish Cypriots voted by an overwhelming majority of 65% FOR a solution to reunite Cyprus...In 2010 they voted,albeit by a slim majority,FOR a President who is well known for his wish for a 2 state solution...So,what happened,or what did not happen,during the ensuing 6 years to bring about such a different result??? Please spend at least a couple of minutes seriously pondering this issue before putting fingers to keyboard...Thanks...

Hi Bir,

Sorry to have come late for the "party" of your thread, but to answer your question in just a few words, there is really NO difference between 2004 and the present time votes. The votes and the reasons for voting were and are the same. It only looks different when one reads your question to mean such as "voting for a solution in 2004" and "voting for a 2 state partition today".

Some people say "Tamato" and some people say "Tomato". It is the same damn thing, just said it differently by different people, that's all.!!

Hi,Kikapu...Where have you been? I was getting worried about you...

So,you belong to the same school which says the AP was a partitionist plan...That may be the case,but the TCs who voted in that referandum in 2004 did not believe it was a partitionist plan...They were voting for reunification....Cypriots are emotional people as you know...They wear it on their sleeve and they wear it in their votes...The rejection by the GCs was a terrible slap from which the TCs have not recovered,in my opinion...

The percieved betrayal of the EU (re the isolations and direct trade etc) was considered another slap...There were a lot of other reasons,but the main one I believe is still the manipulation of the settlers vote by Erdogan...You are right there...No country should allow their numbers to be overtaken by foreigners with voting rights,Recognised or Unrecognised...I do feel sorry for the decent,moral,saltofthearth TCs,as they must now feel insignificant pieces on a geopolitical chess board played by the big boys...

The 40% pro-unification TCs only needed that "unification" slogan to get convinced and vote yes. So you are partly right in what you said Bir. In fact this what the majority among that 35% GCs who voted yes needed too.

However you have to think what the remaining 25% of TCs who voted yes really thought about the Anan Plan. It is clear the remaining 35% were definite partitionists who would not be satisfied by anything less crystal and clear. So it is THAT 25% THAT MADE AND STILL MAKES THE DIFFERENCE. Those people are not pro-unification.They are pro either crystal clear partition or a disguised one.

It is that 25% that switched sides today and joined the other 35% to bring Eroglu to power.

Hello,dear Pyro...You might well be right...I know there was a lot of euphoria amongst the TCs at the time....People just got carried away with their emotions...Not many of them would've read the whole thing,let alone think about it deeply...I was amazed by one thing at the time...Morphou area,which was to be returned,also voted overwhelmingly for the AP...There were a lot of people happy to be made refugees for the second or third time...Was it you who said only the town would be returned but not the surrounding fields...???That was news to me...To be honest i hadnt read the whole plan carefully...I depended a lot on the TC newspapers for my information...The progressive ones were for it,the conservative ones against...I assumed it was a good plan...since Denktas too was opposing it...One thing I still insist on,it was better than the status quo for both sides,at least it gave us a chance to move on a little bit and see what the future would bring...As we are,we are slowly inching our way to certain partition...If you people are worried about partition,you must also worry about keeping the status quo for much longer,because soon Partition will be the only possible solution...The population in the North will vote for nothing else...

Yes Bir it was me who mentioned that only the town of Morfou would be returned not the agricultural land.

The vast majority of TCs living in Morfou are pro unification, I don't think that ever changed. If you ever manage to visit Morfou you will be schocked by the specific character of the TCs living there. The speak openly for the Turkish army as occupation force, they hate the Karsakalis to death, and the most striking thing is what??

Yferd, what?

Too mny of them have GREEK SURNAMES!!

Thir nmes are Turkish alright, but surname... Greek.

What?
You mean like Mudaho and Ganari and Kashano and Daudi and Aftulli and other ascorted perfect turkish names.
Now look here Pyro man, stop insulting our Turkish cousins by calling them Garasakallis, you hear, what?

[Tim Drayton]

I see that the mayor of a place called Akıncılar is one Hasan Barbaros.

http://www.havadiskibris.com/KIBRIS/514 ... kiyor.html

What kind of a surname is that for a Turk?

[YFred]

@Yfred

What is it with you man, what? I hear they would take you to court, and you take it seriously...
Those Latins must have been more irritating to the Greeks than the Ottomans me thinks, what?

What are you on about?
Keep taking the medication and perhaps double the dose, what?

[Pyrpolizer]

My Koumbaros (best man in my wedding) is a refugee from Morfou and he introduced me to his Morfites TC friends that he knew from childhood and some other TCs who were refugees from villages nearby. As they said the majority of those TCs living in Morfou are either native or from nearby villages. All of them same mentality, very nice people… One of them is so fanatically supporting the RoC without fear even in front of the Karasakalis that really astonished me. And of course the first time we met we exchanged all the interesting points about ourselves 2 of those TCs (among a group of 14) had purely Greek surnames. Sorry I don’t want to give their names publicly.
Another striking thing: Morfou had a football team pre 1974, named "Dhigenis-Morfou". Today that team has a club in Nicosia. Go at that club in Nicosia anytime you like, and tell me why there are always some TCs in there. They still support their hometown football team man, unbeleivable!!! I am convinced the TCs of Morfou are a special case… Bir believe me there are many TCs like you and Kikapu living in Cyprus, you guys are not some accidental exception in some forum….


Anyway lets go to the Anan Plan:
We say the Anan Plan was a partition Plan, ASSUMING that plan would actually work and provide for a stable system. Put a BIG question mark here. In addition to that however none of the other issues that constitute the CP were satisfactory for the GCs. The property issue for example was practically ripping the GC refugees off their properties.

So assuming the only problem with the Anan Plan was whether it was a partitionist plan or not, then yes every sensible person should have risked it and voted yes.Perhaps it would eventually prove not to be so, and that would be much better than todays situation, as you very correctly pointed out.

Unfortunately my friend not only the Anan Plan was a partitionist plan it had too many other negatives for the GCs and in addition to that in my opinion it had absolutely no chance to work. It was a trap, not only for the GCs but for the TCs as well. Start from the fact that the UN themselves advertised the Anan Plan as being that pdf document of 182 pages available in their Web page. That document was the most messy and contradictory thing I even read. The real Anan Plan however was another 20,000 pages of details. I ve read only part of those details mainly about the property issue. (how could anyone read them given the fact they only gave us what 2-3 weeks to vote) All those 20,000 pages were available at the UN web side ONLY if you made a deep search. While the 182 pages are available until today the other 20,000 are NOWHERE to find today…(ask yourself why)

Imo we would end up with no state, no governing system, the Turkish army would stay not because of hostilities but because the whole place would be run by mobs and the mafia, and all decent Cypriots (GCs and TCs alike) would be looking for a new home and new start somewhere in Europe. As for the property issue-right of return etc, those would become irrelevant.

[Pyrpolizer]

Sorry Bir, I haven't quited answered in previous post so i continue my reply regarding your comments on the Anan Plan.
I will post later....

While you are at it,tell me more about these Morphians with Greek surnames,never heard of it before...

My family lives in Zodhia near Morphou , I've never heard of any having greek surnames.

Open the telephone directory of Morfou go to dentists and give me a list of names. I will then tell you who is having a Greek surname.

[Oracle]

So,you belong to the same school which says the AP was a partitionist plan...That may be the case,but the TCs who voted in that referandum in 2004 did not believe it was a partitionist plan...They were voting for reunification....

How was it marketed to them by the politicians?

Certainly not as a partitionist plan...There was a lot of emphasis on the EU aspect from memory...There is something you and many others here do not understand,Oracle...TCs think that what they have NOW is partition...They have their own state,in which they can feel safe and secure at night...B ecause you dismiss or largely underestimate the trauma suffered by the TCs during 55-74,it doesn't mean they feel the same...For most TCs agreeing to AP was a big compromise...That is why they felt so rejected...I don't really expect you to understand....

I agree what they thought/think is that they do have partition. But it was with a view to gaining recognition and legalisation of that partition that they voted "yes". Plus those extra perceived "GAINS" they thought the EU would throw at them for voting "yes". Certainly, these are the reasons they cite why they feel aggrieved now, having "dutifully" voted "yes". They want those GAINS!!!!