Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

What we are seeing in Cyprus is Erdogan pleasing the Military by letting them have a small victory in Cyprus...I've always believed that the AKP was using Cyprus for its own benefit,and that also explains why they don't want a solution at this stage

I do get the sense that if Erdogan did put his weight behind Talat it could have backfired given the TC population have grown suspicious of the impact of unification. Erdogan certainly did use Cyprus initially as a major salvo against the military when he first got in.

Yes Bir, Istanbul has all the contrast you described... But the growing middle class is less guliable than before. We should remember Erdogan’s “pious” muslims all want a faster car, bigger TV and fabulous holidays.

Regarding the special relationship, if that is the path that begins to be pursued, then I'd say the compromises necessary on Cyprus for a solution will never be forthcoming. I am wholly of the opinion that Cyprus is actually used by France and Germany(not vocally) as a stalking horse to obstruct full membership.
Erdogan not likely to give up the high ground of commitments made by EU for full membership unless significant compromises are made on a range of other issues. Just as EU holds Turkey hostage on issues of Cyprus and Armenia, Turkey does so likewise.
The real death blow for Cyprus negotiations was not this election, but if a nationalist party was to come to power in Turkey. Erdogan was wise not to risk his tenure on “more of nothing”,show support for TCs but do not dictate as then you are culpable for any problems down the road. He is well advised.
Sorry to have gone on about this topic, but I feel many on this forum are so out of touch with reality as it pertains to Turkey and simply consider it a 2 dimensional caricature. Better to try and understand who you’re dealing with than just take the spin offered by the media in Cyprus.

Yes,I forgot to mention the women in hijab driving latest model 4WDs and Jeeps... You are saying Erdogan is wise enough to know when to butt out,and you might be right...Personally i don't consider him wise but cunning...But perhaps he is listening to good advice...

And you are spot on about the image of Turks and Turkey as a caricature...Most people on this forum are products of the GC education system amply supported by the GO Church brainwashing...But you have to agree,Acikgoz, it is not very easy to deciphere Turkey's complex and condradictory social and political life...

[wyoming cowboy]

I doubt any of it makes any sense to most of them either. I do object to the picture painted on here of the average TC. Like some downtrodden, disadvantaged, hoodwinked victim.

Those I know (30/40 somethings - don't remember '74 personally but lost family because of it or have property here in the South) Just like most of the other people I know everywhere else in the world. Two kids, two cars, pets, nice house, the usual hobbies, gardening, DIY, shopping for the girls, nothing fancy or exciting. Good to their old mum, help their kids with homework and attend school functions. Love their country but don't fancy dying for the 'flag'.

And, if you spend time there, you soon realise it consists of more than just TCs, Turkish settlers and Military. There are all sorts of people from all sorts of countries living there.

Too ture Gasman, most the TCs I know voted for Eroglu, they are not militant or nationalistic, just fed up with no progress and false promises from the west. It's like, we played along wholeheartedly, nothing to lose as Talat can't seem to make any progress and he is all in for unification with the south.

How quickly you
Tc's forget, that before the green line opened up the occuppied territories were baren and identical to what was in 74....Dentash wouldnt even allow the Tc to connect to the internet back in the mid 90's, would the green line be open today if it was solely up to Denktash. NO....You all seem to disregard the fact that the properties you are selling to the Brits belong legally to Gc's....

[Acikgoz]

So what your saying is allow us GCs to out vote you in a unitary state?

Well all this talk and blame for the result of a partitionist leader due to the growth in proportion of Turkish immigrant voters - speaks to the hypocracy of the macro situation.
Given the proportion of GC to TC (even including immigrants) what chance do TCs really then have in 5 to 1, there are many on this forum that insist on unitary state or those that suggest a very light bbf. #

Wyoming - interesting point - the old school had petrified it took the catalyst of EU entry for opportnists to recognise the potential and offer a better way forward. The mind set opened up to different avenues that could be followed. The old guard coming back is scary to most including myself, however if they take anything from the last 2004-10 then they shall know that you must evolve or die. Pandoras box has been opened so TCs will expect more. More than a solution to the cyprus problem, TCs want better government.

[wyoming cowboy]

Dont you think "more" for the TC would mean agreeing on a true BBf where they have their state and run their affairs, excluding what the Federal government will have. Being included in a Federal Republic, legally and with a solid future, with stability. I can assure you no Gc will vote for a "light" BBF, where they are restricted and descriminated against in their own country.

[Gasman]

You all seem to disregard the fact that the properties you are selling to the Brits belong legally to Gc's....

Who are the 'you all' you refer to? I certainly haven't sold anyone else's property to someone who isn't entitled to it.

My feelings about GC property in the North are that it shouldn't even have to come into the 'talks' or any future 'solution'.

The only true owners of property are those who own the legal title to it and those owners are the ones who should be 'talking and deciding' about what is to happen regarding it and whether they want it returned to them and/or compensation paid to them if they do not want it returned for their use or it is physically impossible to return it because it no longer exists or has been developed or whatever.

And, although I do not think it fair or humanitarian to just eject 1000s of people from their homes, I believe that the problem of the 'settlers' who might be living in original GC properties or new properties built on GC land is one for Turkey to sort out either by building new accommodations for the settlers, repatrioting some of them, a mix of both or whatever it takes. That problem is not one of the GC owners' making. And they should not be penalised or stopped from recovering what is rightfully theirs on account of it, or have it made more difficult for them to get a just result because the wrongdoer who made use of their property has further exacerbated and compounded the problem since.

My feelings about those who bought this property are that they are nothing more or better than 'war profiteers'.

So, I can understand the 'tricky problem' of future security having to be thrashed out by the respective leaders and their electorate having a say/vote. But not the 'tricky problem' (as it is oft referred to) of property - the owners of such property are the ones who should be deciding this and obviously there will be many and various solutions that will suit those owners, there cannot be a 'one size fits all' solution to it, decided by politicians and foist on them whether they like it or not.

I do have a bit of trouble understanding why so many thousands of those owners have left it so very long to do anything concrete about it. There seem to have been very few cases decided so far.

I also think that advice to 'flood' ECHR or IPC or whoever with tens of thousands of Court Cases is not helpful to them getting a good or timely result.

[Acikgoz]

Dont you think "more" for the TC would mean agreeing on a true BBf where they have their state and run their affairs, excluding what the Federal government will have. Being included in a Federal Republic, legally and with a solid future, with stability. I can assure you no Gc will vote for a "light" BBF, where they are restricted and descriminated against in their own country.

Oh Wy Cowboy! wy oh wy oh wy. You finally made one interesting observation, now you have to politicise it. Just can't help yourself.

[Kikapu]

What's with the assumption that the TCs didn't vote Eroglu in? All those I know did. Not because of any high ideals. They told me it was because they were cheesed off with all talk but nothing happening for so long and so voted for a 'change'.

There is no assumption that some TCs did not vote for Eroglu.

I'm sure most of the Morally Corrupted did.!

So let me get this straight, that the TCs you have talked to were pissed off because nothing has been agreed on in the last 5 years, so they vote on those who didn't do anything at all to agree on since 1974, just because Cyprus problem was "solved" in 1974 according to them.!:roll:

It doesn't make any sense to me at all it that is their explanation.

Hark, Kikapu the racist lives on....

Your facts are flawed and your attitude is rotten.

So what you're saying is that if you didn't like Talat to carry on as President you are "morally corrupt"?

Remember the Cyprus problem is not the be all and end all of all TCs. The end of the isolation is high on the agenda but at what price? How much can the organ of president insist that change is imminent and agreement will be forthcoming yet not deliver and therefore expect to remain in that position?

Bless Talat as he has a very big heart and is as genuine as he said in wanting a solution. However, politics as in business, if you don't deliver then expect to be made redundant. I don't have faith the promises of Eroglu will amount to much, but then he probably won't get voted in again if he ıs around by the next elections.

Your brain is corrupt Kookoo, and morals - if you had any when you were born, they have certainly been bleached from your mind by your establishment.

I'm sorry for someone such as yourself who can't handler some simple facts, so you resort to name callings. Idiots are here to stay I guess.!:roll:

Who ever said I supported Talat or any other puppets from the north. They all take their marching orders from Turkey, so don't get too excited as to who gets "selected" and who doesn't. Only an idiot would think otherwise, that these puppets have any say so in what they want to do.

Morally Corrupted are those who deal in GCs stolen Properties and who do not want any solution that would mean having to give them back. Talat supporters are no different than supporters of Eroglu if they are Morally Corrupted. You sound like you are one of those Morally Corrupted individuals. So tell us "Kapaligöz", are you in fact a Morally Corrupted individual just because you and your family may be holding onto GC properties in the north and is the only reason why you want partition and not a settlement based on True Federation, True Democracy, International Laws and EU Principles, just because the above would make you give it all back. Would it have made any difference to you had Talat , Eroglu or any other puppets won or lost.?? I doubt it, because the end game is what Turkey wants and it's what Turkey gets.

Your insignificant vote, was meaningless, whom ever you had voted for, because the "winner" was already selected before you had voted, then you have the nerve to call this a "Democracy". So much for being a "Açikgöz"!:lol:

Where did Açikgöz gone.! As soon as I gave him my definition of what it means to be a "Morally Corrupted" individual, he has disappeared.!!:wink:

[Acikgoz]

Oh kiki, every time we start I smack you all over the forum - there is just no sport in that. I started reading your post and saw how disjointed your arguments were and thought nah, not worth it. I've said what I needed to say - your posts continue to support my assessment of you as a racist ill- informed simple unsavory person.

[wyoming cowboy]

Dont you think "more" for the TC would mean agreeing on a true BBf where they have their state and run their affairs, excluding what the Federal government will have. Being included in a Federal Republic, legally and with a solid future, with stability. I can assure you no Gc will vote for a "light" BBF, where they are restricted and descriminated against in their own country.

Oh Wy Cowboy! wy oh wy oh wy. You finally made one interesting observation, now you have to politicise it. Just can't help yourself.

Go educate yourself on what a true Federal system is and then come back and post your smart ass remarks

[Acikgoz]

Oh man - kiki dumb and wyoming dee - is that all there is these days?

Dee - get your argument to follow a logical path - then perhaps you stand a chance of making a point. If your argument doesn't follow a logical path and new unrelated aspects are added to make your point, chances are you are confused or poor at expressing yourself. Therefore you should resolve your explanation/confusion before trying to make your point as right now you sound like a complete idiot.