Cyprus-Forum.com

[BirKibrisli]

"I tend to disagree that Turkey wants total control over the entire island. Half the island is enough as it is, why need it all? "

Turkey has POSSESSION of one third, and effectively controls the whole. In the event of an official partition she would lose that control by self proclaiming the independence and full sovereignty of the south. So moves like the threats against foreign oil exploration firms would have to stop. As would the protests over France getting access to a military base in the south. It is easy and risk free to bully the GCs, it is a whole different matter to deal with a super power. Turkey historically has been keen to avoid challenges to nations of equal or greater power than her own.

Nikitas,I fail to see how Turkey now controls the whole of Cyprus???
And in case of an agreed Partition,which means the trnc would also be internationally recognised,why should Turkey want to issue threats against anyone...All will need to be divided between the North and the South,will it not???Including any oil discovered...

[Nikitas]

Bir,

Recently, a few months ago, Turkish navy ships intercepted foreign oil exploration vessels searching in what is clearly the "south" Economic Zone. Turkey protested also at the demarcation of the southern continental shelf agreement with Egypt. Clearly now Turkey employs a double stanadard, regarding the south as a GC only area, but the resources of the island as belonging to all. This is a form of control exercised over the whole island. In the case of Lebanon Turkey did threaten and bully the Lebanese into shelving the continental shelf agreement with Cyprus. This is the kind of behavior I am referring to when I say threats.

That is now. In the event of a formal partition this game would have to stop and the agreement with Egypt, that has so upset Turkey, would be something she would have to lump even if she does not like it. The same goes for others who are keen to use the unsolved problem to press their case.

[BirKibrisli]

Bir, didn't you get a headache from those jet fighter screams every morning on Samos? You want that for Cypriots as well?

There is a policy of patience in Greece. So people put up with the daily violations of air space and pay through the nose for weapons and the cost of interceptions. Patience is not exactly lack of animosity.

Two weeks ago the Turkish navy sent a frigate to international waters off Attica. This is not the kind of message friendly nations send to one another. Not the kind of situation we need in Cyprus.

I found it disturbing but for the locals it was little more than a nuisanse...
I didnt feel any animosity coming from the Greek people,if anything they were curious about the influx of all these "Turks" ...

I am not very familiar with the protocal re Naval movements,Nikitas...
If the Turkish frigate was in "international waters" why would that be an act of agression???

[BirKibrisli]

Bir,

Recently, a few months ago, Turkish navy ships intercepted foreign oil exploration vessels searching in what is clearly the "south" Economic Zone. Turkey protested also at the demarcation of the southern continental shelf agreement with Egypt. Clearly now Turkey employs a double stanadard, regarding the south as a GC only area, but the resources of the island as belonging to all. This is a form of control exercised over the whole island. In the case of Lebanon Turkey did threaten and bully the Lebanese into shelving the continental shelf agreement with Cyprus. This is the kind of behavior I am referring to when I say threats.

That is now. In the event of a formal partition this game would have to stop and the agreement with Egypt, that has so upset Turkey, would be something she would have to lump even if she does not like it. The same goes for others who are keen to use the unsolved problem to press their case.

I follow your logic,but wouldnt there then be a new game betweeen the North and the South Cyprus...The North would be free to make their own agreements with whoever they choose,won't they??? In their own economic zone...I can see it would be a nightmare to agree on who gets what share as far as the oil is concerned...What was Turkey's objection to the agreement with Egypt,that the TC interests were not taken into account or that Turkey's interests were not taken into account?

[Nikitas]

It was not aggression strictly speaking, military vessels can cross national waters as part of the rules of innocent passage, but they must do so without dithering and using the most direct route possible. Also no aircraft may be launched or landed during such passage. Now look at your maps and see if the route between Bodrum and the Bosphorus can take in a tour off Attica as the most direct route.

The move was rightly termed "stretching the rules of innocent passage to their utmost" by the Greek minister of defence. Living in Greece for 35 years I now know these messages and their wider rmeaning. It is like that old joke "why does a dog lick its balls?' "Becaue it can".

[Hatter]

how will it work out...the roc a member of the eu, the north not...what would the tcs do?...

accept it or eventually move to the free areas as there eu connection will be null and void...

let us be realistic here...it's not going to be peacefull if enforced...

Partition ain't gonna happen, Boomernag. Britain would not allow it - it would not be in British interests (nor would it be in U.S interests, for that matter) - otherwise it would have happened long before now. Come to think of it, not sure it would be in Turkey's interests either.

[YFred]

how will it work out...the roc a member of the eu, the north not...what would the tcs do?...

accept it or eventually move to the free areas as there eu connection will be null and void...

let us be realistic here...it's not going to be peacefull if enforced...

Partition ain't gonna happen, Boomernag. Britain would not allow it - it would not be in British interests (nor would it be in U.S interests, for that matter) - otherwise it would have happened long before now. Come to think of it, not sure it would be in Turkey's interests either.

That's where you are wrong. It was always in the interest of USA and Britain to split the country into two and join them with their respective motherlands. That way Cyprus would get into Nato through the back door, right under the nose of USSR and at her displeasure. For all intense and purposes the split has happend and Cyprus is part of Nato. What nobody gives a shit about is the suffering TCs and GCs to this day.

[Nikitas]

"What was Turkey's objection to the agreement with Egypt,that the TC interests were not taken into account or that Turkey's interests were not taken into account?"

The objections were that the resources of Cyprus belong to both communities, therefore the RFoC had no right unuilaterally to sign any agreements.THis point is confusing when the official stance is that there are two entities in Cyprus etc.

The other objection which kind of contradicts the first was that the delineation of the continental shelf violated Turkey's continental shelf. Both points were rejected by the US state department and American companies have carried out exploration, unhindered by the Turkish navy. The only ones that were harassed were some Norwegian ships.

TUrkey also tried to re-establish an old position that islands cannot have their own continental shelf and that they lie on the continental shelf of the nearest continent etc. This was sunk when the British reminded them that Britain is an island with a continental shelf and that in the Annan plan they had already approved of the clauses re the continental shelf of Cyprus thus accepting its legality.

In the event of partition each side will have its own continental shelf, but as luck would have it this is one territorial issue in which the GC side, without any plan, wins outright, their continental shelf goes half way to Egypt. The TRNC will have half of the 40 miles to Turkey and whatever is around Karpasia to share with the Israelis, Lebanese and Syrians. Not the best of partners!

[DT.]

"What was Turkey's objection to the agreement with Egypt,that the TC interests were not taken into account or that Turkey's interests were not taken into account?"

The objections were that the resources of Cyprus belong to both communities, therefore the RFoC had no right unuilaterally to sign any agreements.THis point is confusing when the official stance is that there are two entities in Cyprus etc.

The other objection which kind of contradicts the first was that the delineation of the continental shelf violated Turkey's continental shelf. Both points were rejected by the US state department and American companies have carried out exploration, unhindered by the Turkish navy. The only ones that were harassed were some Norwegian ships.

TUrkey also tried to re-establish an old position that islands cannot have their own continental shelf and that they lie on the continental shelf of the nearest continent etc. This was sunk when the British reminded them that Britain is an island with a continental shelf and that in the Annan plan they had already approved of the clauses re the continental shelf of Cyprus thus accepting its legality.

In the event of partition each side will have its own continental shelf, but as luck would have it this is one territorial issue in which the GC side, without any plan, wins outright, their continental shelf goes half way to Egypt. The TRNC will have half of the 40 miles to Turkey and whatever is around Karpasia to share with the Israelis, Lebanese and Syrians. Not the best of partners!

good post.

[Tim Drayton]

TCs do? What can they do in a situation where they are a minority in their own little area? Imagine what it will be like when they are 150 000 in 75 million!

i was wondering how many will move to the free areas...and enjoy EU benefits...

I was talking to a fairly well informed Turkish Cypriot resident of Limassol at the weekend. He said that there were about 800 Turkish Cypriots now permanently residing in Limassol, but when I asked if there was any upward trend in this number, he said no. This confirms a view that I have heard expressed many times that those Turkish Cypriots who wished to resettle in the south have done so, and the rest that have stayed put have no intention of moving unless there is a settlement, and probably not even then.