Cyprus-Forum.com

[erolz]

What I am saying is that today TCs do not want a real union, they want partition (or disguised one like Annan plan).

but there are no (significant) numbers of GC that today do not want a real union , they want a unitary GC state with effective control of all of Cyprus and all Cypriots in GC hands alone (or a disgused form of this like a federal solution with no protection of the community basis of the component states and no effective powers for the federal states anyway)?

[Piratis]

Or was it only greeks that could have legal marriage in Cypurs?

I answered already!!!!
Legal (official), until very recently, were the religious marriages. So GCs getting married in Church, and TCs getting married in their own religious way were all legal. OK now?

It seems to me that the so-called "Republic of Cyprus" seeks all the rights that representation of TC would give her on the international level, while domestically she constantly evades the responsibilities that this bestows upon her. As citizens TC should be able to marry , should be able to vote, should be able to enjoy their property. None of these fundamental rights are granted by your government, hence the so-called "Republic of Cyprus" is no more than a Greek Republic which represents GC interests only and does not have the moral right to claim that TC are its citizens - to my eyes it is nothing more that a Greek Republic of Southern Cyprus (GRSC).

Republic of Cyprus is the only state in Cyprus. TCs are more than welcomed to come back. As a matter of fact we insist on legality. Whats stops the return to legality is the illegal occupation, not us!!

So ask the TCs: Do they want return to legality? YES or NO?

[garbitsch]

What I am saying is that today TCs do not want a real union, they want partition (or disguised one like Annan plan).

but there are no (significant) numbers of GC that today do not want a real union , they want a unitary GC state with effective control of all of Cyprus and all Cypriots in GC hands alone (or a disgused form of this like a federal solution with no protection of the community basis of the component states and no effective powers for the federal states anyway)?

I agree with you. We should define the word "union". Do we want a union on the basis of "a federation with two component states" or "a unitary state with one man one vote, which automatically eliminates active role of T.Cs. within their own country".

[Digenis_Akritas]

post removed by erolz. This poster has been banned under two previous user names and will be banned unde this thrid one as soon as the admin has the time to do so.

[garbitsch]

Or was it only greeks that could have legal marriage in Cypurs?

I answered already!!!!
Legal (official), until very recently, were the religious marriages. So GCs getting married in Church, and TCs getting married in their own religious way were all legal. OK now?

It seems to me that the so-called "Republic of Cyprus" seeks all the rights that representation of TC would give her on the international level, while domestically she constantly evades the responsibilities that this bestows upon her. As citizens TC should be able to marry , should be able to vote, should be able to enjoy their property. None of these fundamental rights are granted by your government, hence the so-called "Republic of Cyprus" is no more than a Greek Republic which represents GC interests only and does not have the moral right to claim that TC are its citizens - to my eyes it is nothing more that a Greek Republic of Southern Cyprus (GRSC).

Republic of Cyprus is the only state in Cyprus. TCs are more than welcomed to come back. As a matter of fact we insist on legality. Whats stops the return to legality is the illegal occupation, not us!!

So ask the TCs: Do they want return to legality? YES or NO?

Well Republic of Cyprus is a quasi federal system, which based on the share of powers between Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots (well Greeks and Turks as mentioned in the constitution). On the other hand, Pirati you've always been expressing a solution not based on ethnicity but based on Cypriotness. You yourself have a contradiction. Do Greek Cypriots want a return to 1960 Constitution or do they want abolition of any prerogatives for the Turkish Cypriots, i.e. 30% share in the parliament? OK RoC is the only recognised state in Cyprus, but how legal is this state? To what extend it is a state that the rule of law is based on 1960 Constitution. This state is a de facto Greek Cypriot state. To what degree are the Greek Cypriot people ready to change it into a bicommunal republic?

[Piratis]

but there are no (significant) numbers of GC that today do not want a real union , they want a unitary GC state with effective control of all of Cyprus and all Cypriots in GC hands alone

Not alone. Nobody asked for 100% power by GCs. GCs are the 82%, TCs are the 18% they should both get the equivalent power, and all human and legal rights should be applied.

I agree with you. We should define the word "union". Do we want a union on the basis of "a federation with two component states" or "a unitary state with one man one vote, which automatically eliminates active role of T.Cs. within their own country".

So the active role of Bulgarian turks (since we have a member here) is eliminated automatically because they live in a unitary state with one man one vote?

Your role in your own country will not be eliminated at all, nobody asked for such thing. You can have the 18% of ministers, the 18% of governmental positions etc. However your role can not be the 50%, when you are in fact the 18%.

[bg_turk]

Piratis,

1. You are evading answering the question. In the year of 1999 a muslim was denied CIVIL (not RELIGIOUS) marriage for his religious affiliations, while greek cypriots could have a LEGAL (recognized by the governemt) marriage, i.e. a marriage certificate stamped by the government. So could you please answer my qeustion by choosing one of the two sentences:
(a) TC could have a CIVIL marriage in CYPRUS
(b) TC could NOT have a CIVIL marriage in CYPRUS
Or maybe the problem is that you had no CIVIL marriages in Cyprus, you only had CHRISTIAN marriages ???

2. If it is ILLEGAL for muslims to get married in Cyprus, then no wonder why TC do not want to return to LEGALITY.

[garbitsch]

but there are no (significant) numbers of GC that today do not want a real union , they want a unitary GC state with effective control of all of Cyprus and all Cypriots in GC hands alone

Not alone. Nobody asked for 100% power by GCs. GCs are the 82%, TCs are the 18% they should both get the equivalent power, and all human and legal rights should be applied.

I agree with you. We should define the word "union". Do we want a union on the basis of "a federation with two component states" or "a unitary state with one man one vote, which automatically eliminates active role of T.Cs. within their own country".

So the active role of Bulgarian turks (since we have a member here) is eliminated automatically because they live in a unitary state with one man one vote?

Your role in your own country will not be eliminated at all, nobody asked for such thing. You can have the 18% of ministers, the 18% of governmental positions etc. However your role can not be the 50%, when you are in fact the 18%.

What you are saying does contradict with your "one man one vote" system. If the last one you said is what you really support, then I won't have a problem.
We all know the Bulgarian case is far different than the Cyprus case. There is a huge opposition on the Bulgarian side against the coalition with a Turkish minority party.

[bg_turk]

Piratis,

I repeat that the case of Turkish Cypriots and Bulgarian Turks is very different. There was no hostility or violence like the one you had in the Cyprus, which I guess is more like the wars in Bosnia and Kosovo, and there is no animosity nor hatred between the two communities in Bulgaria. I like my bulgarian neighbours and feel safe to live with them. The Bulgarian ethnic model is often given as an example in the Balkans.


And by the way after the recent elections we have now 30% of all governemnt position despite the fact that we are only 10%

[erolz]

Your role in your own country will not be eliminated at all, nobody asked for such thing. You can have the 18% of ministers, the 18% of governmental positions etc. However your role can not be the 50%, when you are in fact the 18%.

But when you have a senario where the larger community has persued purely community / ethnicity based objectives with no regard for the smaller community at all, such 18% representation is effectively and in all practical terms meaningless. If there was no history of GC persuing purley GC agendas (and not cypriot agendas) then quite possibly your senario would be worth a try - at least until we could see if a GC numerical majority would indeed seek to use this to impose purely GC desires on all Cypriots and all of Cyprus or not. This is not the history of Cyprus. GC DID persue purely GC desires in Cyprus with no regard for TC wishes. This has meant that some form of protection for the TC community is required. This was recognised in the 60 agreements and has been recognised in every 'solution plan' since then. We do not require total equality on all things but we require it against the imposition of purely GC (and not Cypriot) desires on TC against their will.