Cyprus-Forum.com

[Malapapa]

how can you quote the uk census figures as accurate when I have already told you (and you can look it up yourself) there is no clasification for TC

There doesn't need to be. We know how many people were born in Cyprus, of which TCs make a percentage, say 20%, at best 25%.

If you want to include any offspring, say two kids per couple (although some kids will be mixed/assimilated) then the number of TCs in the UK, tops, is around 40,000.

and in most cases Turks are lumped in to the 'other catorgory'

How are they lumped in the 'other' category, when the question is, where were you born?

53,964 UK residents were born in Turkey, according to the 2001 census.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/u ... turkey.stm

have you lived in london I said to a friend of mine (non turk) that there was an estimated 500,000 turkic people living in the uk and he thought I was massively underestimating the population.

He's nuts. He needs to spend more time away from Tottenham.

[miltiades]

The figures published by ATCA are targeted at the senile cheapskates who readily accepted them as gospel.
My concern is the totaly wrong information given out by these pretentious group of partitionists who actually believe that they represent the T/C people both in the UK and the diaspora elsewhere.
I come to contact with T/Cs on a daily basis, nature of my work , I have yet to meet one T/C who subscribed to the nonsense spewed out by the ACTA in so much as they , the T/Cs , are entirely different from the G/Cs. Most comment that all Cypriots are same , religion doesn't come into it , neither does language , what comes into the argument is the adverse effects of Turkey and Greece , the two foreign nations that divide our people.
Back to the cheapskates , as I feel that they will shortly be banning me for speaking my mind , I would like to say that I have never imagined the scale of hatred that these cheapskates have for the G/Cs. It manifests it self in practically everything that they believe in , such as the " massacre" that Turkey invaded in order to put a stop to it , although I think they have now accepted the "official" "trnc" figures that six years before the invasion 30 T/Cs were killed in conflict with G/Cs.
I have lived here in the UK for almost 50 years . I have never , unlike what some claim, experienced any animosity towards me by the English , on the contrary I have always felt that the UK is my adopted country and have always supported the UK in all of its activities. To reach the age of almost 64 and to suddenly realize that there are in northern Cyprus old codgers who hate my guts is indeed a revelation and a poignant reminder that you live and learn !

May I also say that this tread was never intended to insult my compatriots the T/Cs neither was it meant to be a tread on which the T/Cs would be attacked . This thread had as a specific purpose the exposing of ATCA as a partitionist organization , not at all representative of the T/Cs at large , an organization whose entire purpose is to mislead and to "inform" the world that the Cypriot people can not live together in peace .
I have always challenged partitionists regardless , and continue doing so since I believe in a United Democratic Cyprus where all Cypriots are the majority free from the asphyxiating chains of foreign motherland nonsense .

[DTA]

how can you quote the uk census figures as accurate when I have already told you (and you can look it up yourself) there is no clasification for TC

There doesn't need to be. We know how many people were born in Cyprus, of which TCs make a percentage, say 20%, at best 25%.

If you want to include any offspring, say two kids per couple (although some kids will be mixed/assimilated) then the number of TCs in the UK, tops, is around 40,000.

and in most cases Turks are lumped in to the 'other catorgory'

How are they lumped in the 'other' category, when the question is, where were you born?

53,964 UK residents were born in Turkey, according to the 2001 census.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/u ... turkey.stm

have you lived in london I said to a friend of mine (non turk) that there was an estimated 500,000 turkic people living in the uk and he thought I was massively underestimating the population.

He's nuts. He needs to spend more time away from Tottenham.

Your figures are based around two massively flawed assumptions in my opinion:

1) that TC reproduce below the accepted average of 2.4 children but with TC I would argue it would be closer to 4 per couple rather than 2. Also you assume the number of TCs to move to the UK would be in proportion to the overall population of cypriots - i would arguing against this on the basis that TCs since 63 (from outright fear for their lives- to the embargoes that have suppressed our growth) have much more reason to leave cyprus than GCs (apart from in 74 obviously- but many sources say that many of the GC that left because of 74 returned to cyprus).

2) Your not taking in to account that the children of the TCs born in Cyprus that moved over during the 60s, will be around 40 50 years old and therefore would have had their own children and in sizable cases grandchildren.

[Malapapa]

Your figures are based around two massively flawed assumptions in my opinion:

1) that TC reproduce below the accepted average of 2.4 children but with TC I would argue it would be closer to 4 per couple rather than 2.

Four is most certainly too high. Not all TCs would have married, would have married within the community, or would have had children. Plus many "full-blooded" second-generation TCs would have assimilated and no longer consider themselves fully as TCs; and certainly this would be the case for subsequent generations who, again, would be mixed further with indigenous and other people, and no longer feel or indeed be "TC" in any meaningful way.

Also you assume the number of TCs to move to the UK would be in proportion to the overall population of cypriots - i would arguing against this on the basis that TCs since 63 (from outright fear for their lives- to the embargoes that have suppressed our growth) have much more reason to leave cyprus than GCs (apart from in 74 obviously- but many sources say that many of the GC that left because of 74 returned to cyprus).

Cypriots started arriving in the UK in numbers from the post-war period, with a major influx during the 1950s, as economic migrants and to escape the growing troubles. This makes up the bulk of Cypriot-born UK residents, with, as you say, more arriving in the 60s and again in 1974, as refugees.

But, in any event, I based my figure of 40,000 UK TCs on a 25% rather than 18% proportion, to give you the benefit of the doubt here. What percentage would you base it on?

2) Your not taking in to account that the children of the TCs born in Cyprus that moved over during the 60s, will be around 40 50 years old and therefore would have had their own children and in sizable cases grandchildren.

I would be fascinated to see how you would work out the number of TCs that are in the UK, given the census figures.

[EPSILON]

Thursday, April 15, 2010
By Cetin Ramadan - Association of Turkish Cypriots Abroad (ATCA

The Turkish Cypriot Diaspora Unite for a Solution

The Association of Turkish Cypriots Abroad (ATCA), as part of a collective of over 60 Turkish Cypriot NGOs in the UK, has sent this message to all the candidates running for the imminent Presidential elections in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. The message is as follows:

As non-government and civil society organisations representing over half a million displaced Turkish Cypriots worldwide, we support the ongoing negotiations for a comprehensive settlement to the Cyprus issue. However, the Turkish Cypriot Diaspora want to be informed regularly of actual progress and intentions in any future negotiations made by the newly elected President of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC).

It is one of our primary roles to make sure that the future TRNC President and negotiator of the Turkish Cypriot people upholds the people’s humanitarian and constitutional rights in Cyprus. The Turkish Cypriot Diaspora desires a strong leader at the negotiating table who is fundamentally in support of the existence of the TRNC and its elevation globally.

As Turkish Cypriots living abroad, it is in our best interest to unite and fight with our brothers for the TRNC’s continuation and ultimate worldwide recognition. Many thousands of the Turkish Cypriot Diaspora want to end their refugee status and return to their homeland which will hopefully come to be internationally recognised. The Turkish Cypriot Diaspora wants to see ongoing negotiations for a comprehensive solution. However, a future plan must also be fair and similarly based on a Bi- Communal, Bi-Zonal structure based on “Two Founding States”. Our intention is not to accept anything but equal status with the Greek Cypriots at the negotiating table. We support a TRNC President who openly states that the agreement will be based on a new partnership state. We do not support current proposals giving Greek Cypriots 20-30% cross-voting in our elections without equal voting rights for our own kin and the Turkish Cypriot Diaspora.

The Turkish Cypriot Diaspora believe that more pressure should be brought on the UK to give its unconditional support for the removal of the inhumane isolation inflicted on the Turkish Cypriots of Northern Cyprus and to assist in an unbiased way for an overall solution. This would not only assist in the search for an amicable, workable and long lasting resolution to the Cyprus problem, but would also add to its approval of Turkey’s EU entry.

We would like to insist that the Turkish Cypriots need to be compensated for the last 47 years of being placed under severe restrictions on trade, travel and inward investment without any legal justification. The Turkish Cypriots have received virtually no benefit from the international subsidies given to the Greek Cypriot Administration over the past 40 years, and even today when the EU is willing to make grants to Turkish Cypriots, the grants are obstructed by the Greek Cypriots. We would hope that the future TRNC President help put an immediate end to the embargoes and insist that the UK give financial support to the Turkish Cypriots to boost their economy to the same level as that of the Greek Cypriots. Furthermore, that compensation be given for the failure of the UK Government over 47 years to discharge its obligations to the Turkish Cypriots as a Guarantor of the 1960 Constitution. This must be bilateral aid and it must be channelled through the United Nations and given directly to Turkish Cypriots.

Our future TRNC President should reiterate that Turkish and Greek Cypriots are quite distinct from each other: they have a different religion; a different language; a different culture. It should be the purpose of the future TRNC President to ensure that all Turkish Cypriots, home and abroad, be given the freedom and power to decide for themselves what their future status will be. Turkish Cypriots living abroad should also have the right to vote in governmental & presidential elections and referendums under regulations put in place after full consultation with Turkish Cypriots living abroad.

We will not support a unitary state based on single citizenship or single sovereignty and will not accept minority status. We have to insist on the basis of political equality, and the active and effective guarantorship of Turkey for any future sustainable peace. We support a solution which conforms to the realities of the island. We concur with the Declaration made by the Turkish Security Council which “supports a solution based on the realities of the island”. Future negotiations and settlement talks are fully supported by us. However, the unjust isolations and restrictions we are being subjected to cannot continue indefinitely and a comprehensive solution must be achieved such as those suggested in this statement."

On another platform I have challenged the ludicrous claims by ATCA on the number of T/Cs living in the diaspora. They seem to have convinced the cheapskates that the population of the T/Cs overseas is in excess of half a million. Now it could be 1 million it does not bother me the least but inflating a figure is pure nonsense.
Lets say that the 18% , as per the Cyprus population censous of 1960 is now over half a million world wide then we must presume that the 80 % must now be approaching 3 million worldwide !!!!
Notice also their philosophy on the Cypriot people.
How many T/Cs I wonder support the aims and the stated views of ATCA .

Cyprus Milto is ours, the Epsilons-

[miltiades]

Thursday, April 15, 2010
By Cetin Ramadan - Association of Turkish Cypriots Abroad (ATCA

The Turkish Cypriot Diaspora Unite for a Solution

The Association of Turkish Cypriots Abroad (ATCA), as part of a collective of over 60 Turkish Cypriot NGOs in the UK, has sent this message to all the candidates running for the imminent Presidential elections in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. The message is as follows:

As non-government and civil society organisations representing over half a million displaced Turkish Cypriots worldwide, we support the ongoing negotiations for a comprehensive settlement to the Cyprus issue. However, the Turkish Cypriot Diaspora want to be informed regularly of actual progress and intentions in any future negotiations made by the newly elected President of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC).

It is one of our primary roles to make sure that the future TRNC President and negotiator of the Turkish Cypriot people upholds the people’s humanitarian and constitutional rights in Cyprus. The Turkish Cypriot Diaspora desires a strong leader at the negotiating table who is fundamentally in support of the existence of the TRNC and its elevation globally.

As Turkish Cypriots living abroad, it is in our best interest to unite and fight with our brothers for the TRNC’s continuation and ultimate worldwide recognition. Many thousands of the Turkish Cypriot Diaspora want to end their refugee status and return to their homeland which will hopefully come to be internationally recognised. The Turkish Cypriot Diaspora wants to see ongoing negotiations for a comprehensive solution. However, a future plan must also be fair and similarly based on a Bi- Communal, Bi-Zonal structure based on “Two Founding States”. Our intention is not to accept anything but equal status with the Greek Cypriots at the negotiating table. We support a TRNC President who openly states that the agreement will be based on a new partnership state. We do not support current proposals giving Greek Cypriots 20-30% cross-voting in our elections without equal voting rights for our own kin and the Turkish Cypriot Diaspora.

The Turkish Cypriot Diaspora believe that more pressure should be brought on the UK to give its unconditional support for the removal of the inhumane isolation inflicted on the Turkish Cypriots of Northern Cyprus and to assist in an unbiased way for an overall solution. This would not only assist in the search for an amicable, workable and long lasting resolution to the Cyprus problem, but would also add to its approval of Turkey’s EU entry.

We would like to insist that the Turkish Cypriots need to be compensated for the last 47 years of being placed under severe restrictions on trade, travel and inward investment without any legal justification. The Turkish Cypriots have received virtually no benefit from the international subsidies given to the Greek Cypriot Administration over the past 40 years, and even today when the EU is willing to make grants to Turkish Cypriots, the grants are obstructed by the Greek Cypriots. We would hope that the future TRNC President help put an immediate end to the embargoes and insist that the UK give financial support to the Turkish Cypriots to boost their economy to the same level as that of the Greek Cypriots. Furthermore, that compensation be given for the failure of the UK Government over 47 years to discharge its obligations to the Turkish Cypriots as a Guarantor of the 1960 Constitution. This must be bilateral aid and it must be channelled through the United Nations and given directly to Turkish Cypriots.

Our future TRNC President should reiterate that Turkish and Greek Cypriots are quite distinct from each other: they have a different religion; a different language; a different culture. It should be the purpose of the future TRNC President to ensure that all Turkish Cypriots, home and abroad, be given the freedom and power to decide for themselves what their future status will be. Turkish Cypriots living abroad should also have the right to vote in governmental & presidential elections and referendums under regulations put in place after full consultation with Turkish Cypriots living abroad.

We will not support a unitary state based on single citizenship or single sovereignty and will not accept minority status. We have to insist on the basis of political equality, and the active and effective guarantorship of Turkey for any future sustainable peace. We support a solution which conforms to the realities of the island. We concur with the Declaration made by the Turkish Security Council which “supports a solution based on the realities of the island”. Future negotiations and settlement talks are fully supported by us. However, the unjust isolations and restrictions we are being subjected to cannot continue indefinitely and a comprehensive solution must be achieved such as those suggested in this statement."

On another platform I have challenged the ludicrous claims by ATCA on the number of T/Cs living in the diaspora. They seem to have convinced the cheapskates that the population of the T/Cs overseas is in excess of half a million. Now it could be 1 million it does not bother me the least but inflating a figure is pure nonsense.
Lets say that the 18% , as per the Cyprus population censous of 1960 is now over half a million world wide then we must presume that the 80 % must now be approaching 3 million worldwide !!!!
Notice also their philosophy on the Cypriot people.
How many T/Cs I wonder support the aims and the stated views of ATCA .

Cyprus Milto is ours, the Epsilons-

No mate Wrong! Cyprus belongs to the Cypriots , not the Greeks , Turks , British or anyone else , its ours the Cypriots. Sorry mate you are out of it you are a bloody foreigner !

[FragnaticDeath]

Thursday, April 15, 2010
By Cetin Ramadan - Association of Turkish Cypriots Abroad (ATCA

The Turkish Cypriot Diaspora Unite for a Solution

The Association of Turkish Cypriots Abroad (ATCA), as part of a collective of over 60 Turkish Cypriot NGOs in the UK, has sent this message to all the candidates running for the imminent Presidential elections in the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus. The message is as follows:

As non-government and civil society organisations representing over half a million displaced Turkish Cypriots worldwide, we support the ongoing negotiations for a comprehensive settlement to the Cyprus issue. However, the Turkish Cypriot Diaspora want to be informed regularly of actual progress and intentions in any future negotiations made by the newly elected President of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus (TRNC).

It is one of our primary roles to make sure that the future TRNC President and negotiator of the Turkish Cypriot people upholds the people’s humanitarian and constitutional rights in Cyprus. The Turkish Cypriot Diaspora desires a strong leader at the negotiating table who is fundamentally in support of the existence of the TRNC and its elevation globally.

As Turkish Cypriots living abroad, it is in our best interest to unite and fight with our brothers for the TRNC’s continuation and ultimate worldwide recognition. Many thousands of the Turkish Cypriot Diaspora want to end their refugee status and return to their homeland which will hopefully come to be internationally recognised. The Turkish Cypriot Diaspora wants to see ongoing negotiations for a comprehensive solution. However, a future plan must also be fair and similarly based on a Bi- Communal, Bi-Zonal structure based on “Two Founding States”. Our intention is not to accept anything but equal status with the Greek Cypriots at the negotiating table. We support a TRNC President who openly states that the agreement will be based on a new partnership state. We do not support current proposals giving Greek Cypriots 20-30% cross-voting in our elections without equal voting rights for our own kin and the Turkish Cypriot Diaspora.

The Turkish Cypriot Diaspora believe that more pressure should be brought on the UK to give its unconditional support for the removal of the inhumane isolation inflicted on the Turkish Cypriots of Northern Cyprus and to assist in an unbiased way for an overall solution. This would not only assist in the search for an amicable, workable and long lasting resolution to the Cyprus problem, but would also add to its approval of Turkey’s EU entry.

We would like to insist that the Turkish Cypriots need to be compensated for the last 47 years of being placed under severe restrictions on trade, travel and inward investment without any legal justification. The Turkish Cypriots have received virtually no benefit from the international subsidies given to the Greek Cypriot Administration over the past 40 years, and even today when the EU is willing to make grants to Turkish Cypriots, the grants are obstructed by the Greek Cypriots. We would hope that the future TRNC President help put an immediate end to the embargoes and insist that the UK give financial support to the Turkish Cypriots to boost their economy to the same level as that of the Greek Cypriots. Furthermore, that compensation be given for the failure of the UK Government over 47 years to discharge its obligations to the Turkish Cypriots as a Guarantor of the 1960 Constitution. This must be bilateral aid and it must be channelled through the United Nations and given directly to Turkish Cypriots.

Our future TRNC President should reiterate that Turkish and Greek Cypriots are quite distinct from each other: they have a different religion; a different language; a different culture. It should be the purpose of the future TRNC President to ensure that all Turkish Cypriots, home and abroad, be given the freedom and power to decide for themselves what their future status will be. Turkish Cypriots living abroad should also have the right to vote in governmental & presidential elections and referendums under regulations put in place after full consultation with Turkish Cypriots living abroad.

We will not support a unitary state based on single citizenship or single sovereignty and will not accept minority status. We have to insist on the basis of political equality, and the active and effective guarantorship of Turkey for any future sustainable peace. We support a solution which conforms to the realities of the island. We concur with the Declaration made by the Turkish Security Council which “supports a solution based on the realities of the island”. Future negotiations and settlement talks are fully supported by us. However, the unjust isolations and restrictions we are being subjected to cannot continue indefinitely and a comprehensive solution must be achieved such as those suggested in this statement."

On another platform I have challenged the ludicrous claims by ATCA on the number of T/Cs living in the diaspora. They seem to have convinced the cheapskates that the population of the T/Cs overseas is in excess of half a million. Now it could be 1 million it does not bother me the least but inflating a figure is pure nonsense.
Lets say that the 18% , as per the Cyprus population censous of 1960 is now over half a million world wide then we must presume that the 80 % must now be approaching 3 million worldwide !!!!
Notice also their philosophy on the Cypriot people.
How many T/Cs I wonder support the aims and the stated views of ATCA .

Cyprus Milto is ours, the Epsilons-

What milto said above my post. Bloody foreigner

[Gasman]

No mate Wrong! Cyprus belongs to the Cypriots , not the Greeks , Turks , British or anyone else , its ours the Cypriots.

If only more Cypriots felt as you do.

[YFred]

No mate Wrong! Cyprus belongs to the Cypriots , not the Greeks , Turks , British or anyone else , its ours the Cypriots.

If only more Cypriots felt as you do.

There is plenty. 65% had a free vote in the north and 35% voted in the south despite intemedation of every kind for peace. Just think what the result would have been if it was a fair vote in the south too.
There is plenty just not very vocal.

[Oracle]

No mate Wrong! Cyprus belongs to the Cypriots , not the Greeks ,

Oh for gawd's sake Miltiades!

Your grandchildren are baptized Greek Orthodox. You take pride in speaking proper Greek ... so why don't you bugger off to Greece if Cyprus is so foreign to your Greek traditions?