Cyprus-Forum.com

[garbitsch]

Could you please elaborate on that?Do you mean they carry Trnc flags?

To be honest, I haven't been to any football game in n.cyprus, but as far as I watch it on TV they never hold flags. Remember, the "yes" sympathizers were not carrying any Turkish or TRNC flags neither (which on contrary the nai campaigners were all holding Greek and RoC flags, but this is out of topic). What I was trying to say is that there are not much T.C. left who would suggest annexation of north Cyprus with Turkey. TRNC flag may symbolise "taksim" but it does not, for sure, mean "enosis with Turkey". But seeing the map of Cyprus in the middle of the Greek flag hides the fact that some people do still want enosis with Greece. I hope your assumptions on the percent of enosis supporters do not exceed 10%.

As for the property issue. You are looking the problem as the matter of "return of all properties to their owners". Well, on one point you are right by pointing the common endavours of the Greek Cypriots. Yet, when this conflicts with the interest of Turkish Cypriots (who are, btw, happy to live in North and are reluctant to go south), we should find a way in the middle, like return of some amount of property and compensating the rest. OR we can ask people whether they really wish to go back to North or get the compensation. Nobody should be forced in this matter. Hope I made things clear.

[metecyp]

Levent has the right to complain about this. But not the great majority of TCs that support the "TRNC".

Don't you think maybe some TCs support the TRNC because they're afraid of the actions of the majority (like waving Greek flags)? It's like the chicken-egg story but I believe that we wouldn't have been here if there was nothing for TCs to be scared of.

The use of the Greek flag doesn’t reveal the existence of any hidden political agenda by anyone. The slogan “Cyprus is Greek,” which was heard by some section of the fans, 2-3 times towards the end of the game, doesn’t not mean too much either and I would say it was not taken seriously (in its political dimension) even by those who were chanting it.

Do you really believe in this Kifeas? What are you going to tell me next? That I shouldn't worry about anything if someone writes Enosis slogans on the walls? I understand that flags are symbolic but at the same time, don't you think that I should at least be concerned to see my fellow Cypriots waving Greek flags instead of RoC?

What about "Cyprus is Greek"? Isn't this the same mentality of 1950s-1960s that we are the majority and we rule? Am I supposed to feel like my Turkishness and diversity in general are appreciated in a crowd where people think Cyprus is Greek? I don't think so.

You should know that to the same extend that you become angry in view of the Greek flag in Cyprus, GCs get equally -if not more- angry as well, in view of the Turkish flag!

I understand that the Turkish flag annoys GCs and rightly so. But the point is that GCs had yet another chance to show to TCs and to the whole world that TCs are welcomed and they are part of RoC.

Just imagine for a minute, how different it would have been to see the stadium full of RoC flags. Or how different everything would be if they could organize TCs and GCs chant together saying "Peace in Cyprus" in Turkish and Greek instead of "Cyprus is Greek"...

But yet again, GCs at the stadium totally ignored TCs and carried Greek flags..and chanted "Cyprus is Greek"...whether it's symbolic or not, it showed a lot.

[Kifeas]

Do you really believe in this Kifeas? What are you going to tell me next? That I shouldn't worry about anything if someone writes Enosis slogans on the walls? I understand that flags are symbolic but at the same time, don't you think that I should at least be concerned to see my fellow Cypriots waving Greek flags instead of RoC?

You are trying to knock down open doors, imo!
Writing slogans on the wall is illegal! Never the less, as the word implies, they are just slogans! I did not say you should not be concerned! I am also concerned by the fact that you (TCs) will be (rightfully) concerned, and it is for this reason that I personally criticised the event before anybody else did in this forum! At the same time and because I know you will (rightfully) be concerned, I tried to explain what it lies behind it, which I can assure you is nothing too worrisome, so that those rightful concerns are alleviated. I explained and said what I said because I live in this society and happen to know many of this kind of people and I raised this issue to them many times in the past and I know the interpretation and explanation they themselves give to their own behaviour.

Can we not see the same or similar attitude by many TCs? To the contrary and even worst, in your community you have official political party(s) and with sizable representation, professing partition and /or integration with Turkey, something which cannot be said about the GC community as we do not have any political party that has a policy of Enosis, except some very marginal groupings.

What about "Cyprus is Greek"? Isn't this the same mentality of 1950s-1960s that we are the majority and we rule?

Do you want me to make a list of all the possible slogans that football fans chant rhythmically in GC stadiums when their teams play each other? From curses to the other side’s mothers, sisters, to personal insults and abuses against the referees and the players of the other team re their sexual orientation, their dignity, etc, etc. Are we going now to take everything that those lunatics say at face value! The majority of them are so stupid that they paint their faces and hairs like clowns and do not even know how to behave in the minimum of decency, set aside to have some sense of what they shout in the stands during every football match, as long as they feel it intimidates the opponent team and its fans. In most cases the more one tries to teach them some sense, the more they laugh and go along their own non-sensible ways.

Am I supposed to feel like my Turkishness and diversity in general are appreciated in a crowd where people think Cyprus is Greek? I don't think so.

You can do two things in this case. Either do not go to the football stadiums were GC teams play, or go and seat among the Omonia funs who chant that “Cyprus belongs to the Cypriots” and carry Cyprus flags, although you will soon discover that they are not any less lunatics than the others.

And not to be misunderstood by anyone, I do not imply that only lunatics go to football matches. There are also a lot of very decent and well behaving people too. They just learned not to pay attention to the fanatics sections of each team and their slogans.

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas arent you being very superficial in trying to explain away the inner concealed feelings of many GCs which can only really explode and come to the forefront when the worlds attention is turned to certain stages such as football matches etc, your simplistic evaluation is ho dont worry these people are crazy they dont really mean what they chant, there is no real depth to what they are saying, surely these people chant these thing because they believe in them and harbour feelings of revenge by nurturing the secret desire for Cyprus to be Greek.

[erolz]

Kifeas arent you being very superficial in trying to explain away the inner concealed feelings of many GCs which can only really explode and come to the forefront when the worlds attention is turned to certain stages such as football matches etc, your simplistic evaluation is ho dont worry these people are crazy they dont really mean what they chant, there is no real depth to what they are saying, surely these people chant these thing because they believe in them and harbour feelings of revenge by nurturing the secret desire for Cyprus to be Greek.

I would have to say VP that I have been to football matches in the UK, with friends of mine that are (on the whole) intelligent educated non biggoted people and watched them chanting things like 'you dirty northern b*stards' - yet they actually held no real animosity for northerns.

The Greek flags flying and the chanting at this recent match were certainly disapointing and depressing to a degree but I do not think we should 'over do' the significance (just as we should not under do it either).

[Kifeas]

Kifeas arent you being very superficial in trying to explain away the inner concealed feelings of many GCs which can only really explode and come to the forefront when the worlds attention is turned to certain stages such as football matches etc, your simplistic evaluation is ho dont worry these people are crazy they dont really mean what they chant, there is no real depth to what they are saying, surely these people chant these thing because they believe in them and harbour feelings of revenge by nurturing the secret desire for Cyprus to be Greek.

Viewpoint!

Did I ever say that what ever I say or any other GC matters to you?
It doesn't matter because you do not want it to matter!

What you care about it to find excuses and pre-texts in order to pass your pro-partition ideas. In fact, the more slogans you hear and the more Greek flags you see, the better the service to you and your agenda.

You do not convince me in whatever you say Viewpoint because you are not objective. You are not objective, not because you do not have the capacity to be objective, but because you do have a motive to appear non-objective. The problem with you is that you believe others cannot see your deliberate non-objective attitude and that you believe they make sense from your arguments and they also become convinced by them.

Viewpoint, like the fox, which no matter how well tries to hide her self, her tail is always visible, the same occurs in your case.

You think that by constantly blowing the whistle and screaming that there is fire in the forest and also pretending to carry a bucket of water along, people will not realise that you are the actual arsonist and they will just look elsewhere to find him.

You hide behind anonymity in order to post all this rhetoric and play the Cassandra of the forum, while in reality you are just a Serene, or better, the Circe of partition.

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas arent you being very superficial in trying to explain away the inner concealed feelings of many GCs which can only really explode and come to the forefront when the worlds attention is turned to certain stages such as football matches etc, your simplistic evaluation is ho dont worry these people are crazy they dont really mean what they chant, there is no real depth to what they are saying, surely these people chant these thing because they believe in them and harbour feelings of revenge by nurturing the secret desire for Cyprus to be Greek.

I would have to say VP that I have been to football matches in the UK, with friends of mine that are (on the whole) intelligent educated non biggoted people and watched them chanting things like 'you dirty northern b*stards' - yet they actually held no real animosity for northerns.

The Greek flags flying and the chanting at this recent match were certainly disapointing and depressing to a degree but I do not think we should 'over do' the significance (just as we should not under do it either).

I agree erolz but as you say the mindset of GCs and those that have feverantly tried to explain away these actions is also disappointing.

[Viewpoint]

Kifeas arent you being very superficial in trying to explain away the inner concealed feelings of many GCs which can only really explode and come to the forefront when the worlds attention is turned to certain stages such as football matches etc, your simplistic evaluation is ho dont worry these people are crazy they dont really mean what they chant, there is no real depth to what they are saying, surely these people chant these thing because they believe in them and harbour feelings of revenge by nurturing the secret desire for Cyprus to be Greek.

Viewpoint!

Did I ever say that what ever I say or any other GC matters to you?
It doesn't matter because you do not want it to matter!

What you care about it to find excuses and pre-texts in order to pass your pro-partition ideas. In fact, the more slogans you hear and the more Greek flags you see, the better the service to you and your agenda.

You do not convince me in whatever you say Viewpoint because you are not objective. You are not objective, not because you do not have the capacity to be objective, but because you do have a motive to appear non-objective. The problem with you is that you believe others cannot see your deliberate non-objective attitude and that you believe they make sense from your arguments and they also become convinced by them.

Viewpoint, like the fox, which no matter how well tries to hide her self, her tail is always visible, the same occurs in your case.

You think that by constantly blowing the whistle and screaming that there is fire in the forest and also pretending to carry a bucket of water along, people will not realise that you are the actual arsonist and they will just look elsewhere to find him.

You hide behind anonymity in order to post all this rhetoric and play the Cassandra of the forum, while in reality you are just a Serene, or better, the Circe of partition.

Kifeas

Interesting analysis, but totally wrong.....

arent the majority of us anonomous here??

arent we free to contribute our ideas and feelings and understandings to the forum??

arent we here to learn from each other??

is partition a dirty word???

why do you feel you have to attack me and try to discredit me and my ideas/arguements???

have I been abusive to you??

have I called you a liar???

arent you aware there are many TCs like me???

why are you so unsettled by a different viewpoint??

[gabaston]

vp

i totally agree with what you say...............................but




isnt it amazing that the thread about a football match, 147 posts later end up reffering to partition.

and so this is cyprus............yyeeeeeeaaah

[MicAtCyp]

To be honest, I haven't been to any football game in n.cyprus, but as far as I watch it on TV they never hold flags. Remember, the "yes" sympathizers were not carrying any Turkish or TRNC flags neither (which on contrary the nai campaigners were all holding Greek and RoC flags, but this is out of topic). What I was trying to say is that there are not much T.C. left who would suggest annexation of north Cyprus with Turkey. TRNC flag may symbolise "taksim" but it does not, for sure, mean "enosis with Turkey". But seeing the map of Cyprus in the middle of the Greek flag hides the fact that some people do still want enosis with Greece. I hope your assumptions on the percent of enosis supporters do not exceed 10%.

Thanks for your explanation. Just one thing I would like to make clear:When I said "Another 10% will always think of the TCs negatively." this doesn’t mean those people are pro Enosis. This percentage includes Turk haters, ignorants who think the TCs are illiterate,lazy, and all sorts of stuff. Personally I never heard of any person advocating Enosis although in forums I ve seen some idiots who do it just to provoke everyone and make fun of it.