Cyprus-Forum.com

[denizaksulu]

Yfred, it is a bit difficult to explain what happened to those who werent around/hadnt been born or simply brainwashed. Dont get upset too much, though there are a few honest GCs around who do know the truth and tell and still some who fear to tell it because the fear of being labelled a traitor. I for one know and tell the truth and I fear no one. If I die telling the truth - so be it.

Let me ask you a question Deniz. I think i can trust you to give me an honest answer.
Is it true that a lot of TCs (if not the majority of them) have the habit /or have been trained through imitation, of repeating hearsay stories of the past and present them as if they are personal experiences?

Hi my friend. An honest answer is I can only talk for myself. There is no way I can vouch for others' personal experience though there are a few I can trust. I trust Bir, Kiks (I know of his experience - I was there), I trust Yfred too, but his 'sense of humour' clouds his statements and confuses people. Nevertheless, some people are prone to exagerate, I have no doubt of that.

On more than one occasions GCs took pot shots at me early in 1964 from Ledra Palace hotel. Bored armed men are prone to do that, so I have no doubt this also happened around Lurucina or any other village. I worked for the SYS and saw the dead come in on a daily basis by UN helicopters near Kyrenia gate/Nicosia. I dont think they commited suicide. Doubtless, TCs have also taken pot shots too.

Thanks Deniz

Surely you meant to say Tanks. That's what was parked outside Goshi in 74.

I wasnt there Yfred. Did the tanks fire shots. If they did, they still took pot-shots with tank fire. My apologies.

No Deniz. The Tanks were lined up in Goshi to fire on Lurucina in 74. They were not about to take pot shots. They had every intention of flattening Lurucina. I don't know how many thanks were there but after TAF wiped most of them out, 2 ended up in Lurucina, there to this day on the hill top visible from Larnaka Lefkosha road.
Surely there must be some records somewhere as to what the GC army was up to in 74. Do they not have a 30 year rule of FOI. Surely this information must be available from their mod. What their intention was and how they lost the lot to TAF. And thank god that they did otherwise they would have killed 4500 in one go.
Damn, of course I forget, GCs do not kill whole villages, do they?

Next time you won't be so lucky.

No need for that, bad fig

That's alright Deniz, let the Bastardos declare themselves one by one. They are all coming out the woodwork this afternoon.

I can count to two now. I have a slight improvement. I think I will count to three and stop. I couldnt cope with more than three bad figs. (not you Figgy )

What about the two budanas GR and DT? that makes 4.

There is a difference between bad and angry. Sometimes an angry hornet can be worse than a bad fig. I had a Turkish Coffee with GR, so I cant turn my back on him now, can I? DT is hurting; it would drive me crazy.

What happend to others can never excuse how they behave on the forum

Everybody is a keyboard hero Yfred.

Remember when old GR wanted to invade Turkey with his mercenaries.

[georgios100]

I think it is a mistake to think of these "historical" figures in black and white terms...As they say,'one person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter'...I want to correct some misconceptions about the TMT...Firstly,the TMT was not founded to advance the cause of Taksim...

Please explain why TMT was founded then...

Yes,they did embrace that later on but it was found to protect the TC community from what they thought was the inevitable widespread attacks from EOKA or other GC paramilitaries...Secondly,the TMT's sway over the average TC is largely exaggerated...Most TCs hero-worshipped the TMT and its commanders,very much like how most GCs hero-worship the EOKA today... And yes, the TMT did turn on those TCs it considered as traitors to the cause,and they did murder those they could not bring to their knees...


Can you provide specific numbers of murdered TCs or approx? What are we talking about? It it tens or hundreds?




The average TC would have considered these murders as "necessary evils",and keep on supporting the TMT for it was their only protection (so the believed) against "greater" evil...I don't believe there is anybody alive today who can prove that Denktas did anything "wrong" personally,as founder of the TMT...Let's not forget that the operational command of the TMT was handed over to Turkish Army officers pretty much from the beginning...

It may be true... no one is alive to prove Denktas wrongdoing, but surely Denktas knew of the "dark" side of the TMT (intimidating/killing TCs) and yet, never decided to pull out of TMT, therefor, we are to assume Denktas (knowingly) was approving of the atrocities. Well, he is guilty after all, don't you think?



The other thing to remember is this: Not everyone who joined the TMT were of good and noble character motivated to serve his community...Some were plain and simple thugs who were in it for personal gain,and who were used by those higher up to do the "dirty" work for them...

Also known as "buffers" sort of speak...

Those who suffered most from TMT's excessess (after those murdered by the TMT that is) were the good souls who joined the TMT to help protect their community,but couldn't stomach certain TMT practices...Most of them went into voluntary exile in countries like England and Australia,faithfully keeping their oaths of silence,and lived very unhappy and unfulfilled lives,and died very bitter persons...

Why keep their silence? Most exiled people make it loud & clear, to their host countries, of the atrocities they left behind... Could the TMT get to them, even as far as Australia?

[YFred]

I think it is a mistake to think of these "historical" figures in black and white terms...As they say,'one person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter'...I want to correct some misconceptions about the TMT...Firstly,the TMT was not founded to advance the cause of Taksim...

Please explain why TMT was founded then...

Yes,they did embrace that later on but it was found to protect the TC community from what they thought was the inevitable widespread attacks from EOKA or other GC paramilitaries...Secondly,the TMT's sway over the average TC is largely exaggerated...Most TCs hero-worshipped the TMT and its commanders,very much like how most GCs hero-worship the EOKA today... And yes, the TMT did turn on those TCs it considered as traitors to the cause,and they did murder those they could not bring to their knees...


Can you provide specific numbers of murdered TCs or approx? What are we talking about? It it tens or hundreds?




The average TC would have considered these murders as "necessary evils",and keep on supporting the TMT for it was their only protection (so the believed) against "greater" evil...I don't believe there is anybody alive today who can prove that Denktas did anything "wrong" personally,as founder of the TMT...Let's not forget that the operational command of the TMT was handed over to Turkish Army officers pretty much from the beginning...

It may be true... no one is alive to prove Denktas wrongdoing, but surely Denktas knew of the "dark" side of the TMT (intimidating/killing TCs) and yet, never decided to pull out of TMT, therefor, we are to assume Denktas (knowingly) was approving of the atrocities. Well, he is guilty after all, don't you think?



The other thing to remember is this: Not everyone who joined the TMT were of good and noble character motivated to serve his community...Some were plain and simple thugs who were in it for personal gain,and who were used by those higher up to do the "dirty" work for them...

Also known as "buffers" sort of speak...

Those who suffered most from TMT's excessess (after those murdered by the TMT that is) were the good souls who joined the TMT to help protect their community,but couldn't stomach certain TMT practices...Most of them went into voluntary exile in countries like England and Australia,faithfully keeping their oaths of silence,and lived very unhappy and unfulfilled lives,and died very bitter persons...

Why keep their silence? Most exiled people make it loud & clear, to their host countries, of the atrocities they left behind... Could the TMT get to them, even as far as Australia?

Who is afraid of TMT today? Which planet are you from? Uranus?

[runaway]

Denktaş is KKTC's first president.

Hey Runaway,

What's the punishment like in Istanbul, when two men are caught taking showers together?

We'll see when Hrisostomos (or whatever his name is) meets Bartholomeos. By the way why are letting that south cypriot priest enter our land???

Because he could buy and sell you 100 times over you little peasant

He will be satisfied with a fridge - he's not fussy.

defol köylü rum. KKTC forever and you are out of it just like mama O. (mother of all O.s in south cyprus )

[georgios100]

I think it is a mistake to think of these "historical" figures in black and white terms...As they say,'one person's terrorist is another's freedom fighter'...I want to correct some misconceptions about the TMT...Firstly,the TMT was not founded to advance the cause of Taksim...

Please explain why TMT was founded then...

Yes,they did embrace that later on but it was found to protect the TC community from what they thought was the inevitable widespread attacks from EOKA or other GC paramilitaries...Secondly,the TMT's sway over the average TC is largely exaggerated...Most TCs hero-worshipped the TMT and its commanders,very much like how most GCs hero-worship the EOKA today... And yes, the TMT did turn on those TCs it considered as traitors to the cause,and they did murder those they could not bring to their knees...


Can you provide specific numbers of murdered TCs or approx? What are we talking about? It it tens or hundreds?




The average TC would have considered these murders as "necessary evils",and keep on supporting the TMT for it was their only protection (so the believed) against "greater" evil...I don't believe there is anybody alive today who can prove that Denktas did anything "wrong" personally,as founder of the TMT...Let's not forget that the operational command of the TMT was handed over to Turkish Army officers pretty much from the beginning...

It may be true... no one is alive to prove Denktas wrongdoing, but surely Denktas knew of the "dark" side of the TMT (intimidating/killing TCs) and yet, never decided to pull out of TMT, therefor, we are to assume Denktas (knowingly) was approving of the atrocities. Well, he is guilty after all, don't you think?



The other thing to remember is this: Not everyone who joined the TMT were of good and noble character motivated to serve his community...Some were plain and simple thugs who were in it for personal gain,and who were used by those higher up to do the "dirty" work for them...

Also known as "buffers" sort of speak...

Those who suffered most from TMT's excessess (after those murdered by the TMT that is) were the good souls who joined the TMT to help protect their community,but couldn't stomach certain TMT practices...Most of them went into voluntary exile in countries like England and Australia,faithfully keeping their oaths of silence,and lived very unhappy and unfulfilled lives,and died very bitter persons...

Why keep their silence? Most exiled people make it loud & clear, to their host countries, of the atrocities they left behind... Could the TMT get to them, even as far as Australia?

Who is afraid of TMT today? Which planet are you from? Uranus?

YFred, bugger off!!!

I am waiting for Bir to comment not you. Bir's answers make sense, you just make noise.

[denizaksulu]

Denktaş is KKTC's first president.

Hey Runaway,

What's the punishment like in Istanbul, when two men are caught taking showers together?

We'll see when Hrisostomos (or whatever his name is) meets Bartholomeos. By the way why are letting that south cypriot priest enter our land???

Because he could buy and sell you 100 times over you little peasant

He will be satisfied with a fridge - he's not fussy.

defol köylü rum. KKTC forever and you are out of it just like mama O. (mother of all O.s in south cyprus )

Niye sırıtıyorsun lan:

[denizaksulu]

Denktaş is KKTC's first president.

Hey Runaway,

What's the punishment like in Istanbul, when two men are caught taking showers together?

We'll see when Hrisostomos (or whatever his name is) meets Bartholomeos. By the way why are letting that south cypriot priest enter our land???

Because he could buy and sell you 100 times over you little peasant

He will be satisfied with a fridge - he's not fussy.

defol köylü rum. KKTC forever and you are out of it just like mama O. (mother of all O.s in south cyprus )

If you were a real man, you would stop insulting women and take on men.

[runaway]

Denktaş is KKTC's first president.

Hey Runaway,

What's the punishment like in Istanbul, when two men are caught taking showers together?

We'll see when Hrisostomos (or whatever his name is) meets Bartholomeos. By the way why are letting that south cypriot priest enter our land???

Because he could buy and sell you 100 times over you little peasant

He will be satisfied with a fridge - he's not fussy.

defol köylü rum. KKTC forever and you are out of it just like mama O. (mother of all O.s in south cyprus )

If you were a real man, you would stop insulting women and take on men.

mama O. and her client. such a disgusting couple

Yavru vatan Türk toprağıdır.

[Pyrpolizer]

Although Bir provided a very honest and detailed information to the best of his knowledge about TMT I personally have a different opinion for both the Eoka and the TMT.

he truth is that no armed organization is angelic. They need informers, they need cold blood murderers, they need merciless people, they need to do "illegal" actions, they need to have connections with the underground world. Otherwise they will fail. They also need to expose a noble face to get support. In most cases those organizations however serve double if not tripple purposes.
Our Eoka's exposure of noble cause was of course the liberation struggle for freedom from British. With this " noble" cause Eoka gained support and respect from the average GC.
But there was also a second cause: Enosis/Union with Greece.

On the other hand the causes of TMT were not clear from the beginning. There is a very good reason for that. TMT was not created as a reaction for Eokas formation per se. This is a widespread myth among the TCs. it was created to handle the situation IN THE EVENTUALITY OF THE BRITISH HAVING TO LEAVE for whatever reason whatsoever. It could be Eoka, it could be people rioting, it could be passive resistence, it could be anything.
In my opinion Turkey and their TC collaborators had only one cause in mind in case the British would leave. Taksim i. e take a part of Cyprus for themselves. They would never stomach be a minority among people who were rulers before. It didn’t matter for them if the GCs would have Enosis or not, what mattered was to get a part of Cyprus for themselves.
TMT was thus created on a "wait and see" status. The first thing it obviously had to do is become a defence organization providing some basic defence to TCs in case the Eokas would extend their attacks against the TC community., This defence image also served as their "noble" cause with which they gained support and respect from the average TC.

The attacks of course never happened. The Eokas kept on fighting the British. It became apparent that sooner or later the British would leave. , so TMT spurt out loud and clear her real cause. Taksim!

Then the 1960 agreements came that tried to mend the situation. On one hand they had the GC demand for Enosis, on the other the TC demand to have taksim but also be rulers as they were before.
Imo the British tried their best to mend the situation with the 1960 agreements. With that they barred Enosis and Taksim, but they also did the mistake of providing us an unworkable constitution, with separatist elements all over, and also overinflated priviledges to the TC community (for them to feel masters like before) .

[Pyrpolizer]

Denktaş is KKTC's first president.

Hey Runaway,

What's the punishment like in Istanbul, when two men are caught taking showers together?

We'll see when Hrisostomos (or whatever his name is) meets Bartholomeos. By the way why are letting that south cypriot priest enter our land???

Because he could buy and sell you 100 times over you little peasant

He will be satisfied with a fridge - he's not fussy.

defol köylü rum. KKTC forever and you are out of it just like mama O. (mother of all O.s in south cyprus )

If you were a real man, you would stop insulting women and take on men.

mama O. and her client. such a disgusting couple

Yavru vatan Türk toprağıdır.

Karasakal hayvani go back to your hay