Cyprus-Forum.com

[Michael Coumas]

2fan – Sorry, I am a little confused and at a loss to understand the line stating something along the lines of “we Americans may be unappealing to you at this point.”
Why would Americans be unappealing to me at this point? Have I missed something?

erolz – Without getting too deep into this, it is late for me, I agree we do not know why he ran (he is sadly not here to tell us) but we do know that he was conducting himself illegally in the UK at the time. Perhaps he thought he was to be apprehended for that matter and ran. (Not a very serious matter but illegal nonetheless)
If an officer had a drawn weapon in public, as I believe he did, then it was probably because immediately prior to that he possibly thought he had a clear safe shot.
I drew my conclusion based on alleged facts as we know them, there was no running from a girlfriend’s previous partner & hopefully your papers will run the story tomorrow as we know it here in London.
I must take up the point you make reference the absence of a bomb, erolz, I take you as a person of understanding. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, foresight is a gift, in situations such as that when public safety is perceived to be at risk you must make a split second decision.
The authorities will obviously do all they can to minimise a similar thing occurring, we do not need to state the obvious within informed intelligent debate. However the law of averages would dictate that something similar could very well happen again given the numbers of people in Britain’s Cities who for multifarious reasons would have reason to flee from the law.

[erolz]

EROLZ,
I can see that this event has affected you deeply. Please begin concentrating on issues that affect TC, GC, Greeks and Turks.

Begin? 90-95% of my many posts here to date concern the cyprus problem. Oh and by the way I am half TC and half British. I was born in London and spent most of my life living in London. I have many close friends in London. I am at least as British as I am TC and I am a Londoner though I do not live there any more.

I told you that we will sort through these things.

Who is we? And with all due respect the kind of concerns I have over this event do not just melt away at the say so of an annonymous (to me) poster on a forum.

This person that died was a casuality of terrorism.

No doubt - but a casuality of terrorism that was shot in cold blood by the very authorites that are there to do what they can to protect us from terrorism.

Let's pray it doesn't happen again.

Certainly pray it does not happen again but I am of the view that more concrete steps should be taken to ensure it does not happen again that just praying.

You have to move on. Nuff said!

All I am doing is discussing the issue. If you feel that is inapropriate then so be it. This is however a discussion forum.

[erolz]

Erolz,
Do you speak greek?

I speak neither Greek or Turkish. Just english and a little french.

[erolz]

....but we do know that he was conducting himself illegally in the UK at the time. Perhaps he thought he was to be apprehended for that matter and ran. (Not a very serious matter but illegal nonetheless)

Even this is not clear atm with the home secratary making statements saying he believed the man was in the country legaly.

If an officer had a drawn weapon in public, as I believe he did, then it was probably because immediately prior to that he possibly thought he had a clear safe shot.

That may well be so, but it may also mean that what the victim saw was men dressed not in uniforms but plain clothes, shouting and waving a gun at him.

I drew my conclusion based on alleged facts as we know them, there was no running from a girlfriend’s previous partner & hopefully your papers will run the story tomorrow as we know it here in London.

The senario a put was a totlay made up hypothetical one. The point was that you seemed to be saying "he ran - he must have been guilty of something". My hypothetical senario was made to make the point that this is not necessarily the case, that there could have been reasons why he ran that had nothing to do with any guilt (and sheer panic is another possibility as I see it.). I will suggest another made up hypothetical senario. You (a hypothetical you - not you personaly) have a personal dispute with someone in the UK. You want to get back at this person. You go round to his house and tell them '"you better watch your back because sometime somewhere I am going to get you and get you bad". You then ring the police with an annonymous tip off that this person is planning a suicide bomb. Quite an effective way to cause this person trouble.

I must take up the point you make reference the absence of a bomb, erolz, I take you as a person of understanding. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, foresight is a gift, in situations such as that when public safety is perceived to be at risk you must make a split second decision.

Well I would reiterate that at this point I make no judgments about the officers that acted in this tradgey. I accept that as a society we ask these people to protect us and we give them the right to use force and deadly force and expect them to do so. If and when mistakes are made, as they surely will be, I accpet it is unreasonable to jump up and down and rant and rave and the like.

My 'problem' is with

a - the reponse of the Cheif of Met police. I do not believe operationaly the policy being persued is the correct one myself but can understand arguments that it is. I also think from a 'PR' (rather than operational) perspective his comments were a mistake

b - how can the intelligence that led the officers on the ground to believe the man had a suicide bomb on his person have been so incorrect? This to me is the core issue atm and hopefully more details as to on what information the police were operating on and how it was conveyed to those on the gorund will be given. The man, as far as I know, had no connection to terrorists. He was from Brazil - hardly know as a trainning ground for fundamentalist terrorists targeting Britain. To me it is important that these questions are asked by a public. I do not wish to villify the police in this matter but niether do I think we should take an attitude that 'we are under attack and should not question the actions of those trying to protect us'. At the end of the day if we allow terrorist to change the fundamental charater of our country then we give them a victory that they should not be allowed in my view.

The authorities will obviously do all they can to minimise a similar thing occurring, we do not need to state the obvious within informed intelligent debate. However the law of averages would dictate that something similar could very well happen again given the numbers of people in Britain’s Cities who for multifarious reasons would have reason to flee from the law.

Maybe it's just me but I would like the authorites to come out and say this - which they have not done as far as I am aware. If only for the (small) comfort that might bring the family and friends of this poor victim, though obviously I would prefer they actualy did something as well as just saying they would do so.

[Michael Coumas]

erolz - Good day to you, I have very briefly scanned over what we have written whilst preparing for another days work & your final points including a) b) & c) lead me to believe we are all of the same opinion to a certain degree but only perhaps looking at it from a different perspective. I come with an operational background where decisions are, by necessity, made on the spot which at times determines life or death. I do not want to dramatise the fact but it happens. Fortunatly for me I have been right up to when I retired so do not have the nightmares that some do.
As humans you will understand that you and I probably feel much the same notwithstanding our backgrounds.
Best regards

[garbitsch]

Erolz,
Do you speak greek?

I speak neither Greek or Turkish. Just english and a little french.

Are you joking? At least you can say "pen geltim lontratan cyprus'a shopping icin" (in londoner accent "I came to Cyprus from London for shopping". Don't tell me Mic speaks Turkish better than you!

[2fan]

EROLZ

When I said that "we will sort through these problems" I meant that we will address and solve these problems as a civilization..eventually. Why are you so defensinsive? All I was trying to do was to ease your pain because I saw that you were deeply affected by the events unfolding in the UK.

From now on you will not get any sympathy from me.
Moreover, you seem to have a negative attitude toward mainland Turks getting involved in the politics regarding your precious little island. Don't forget that it was the mainland Turks that invaded the island to protect your ass. Furthermore, I wonder how many CGs do not speak Greek. You're a TC and do not speak Turkish. You should get busy on that subject.

I extended my hand to you when you came up with the idea to clean up Greek cemeteries in the north and you shot me down citing that it is an Cypriot problem to be solved by Cypriots. You assumed that I have no interests in Cyprus.

Who died and made you king?

[2fan]

Erolz,
Do you speak greek?

I speak neither Greek or Turkish. Just english and a little french.

Are you joking? At least you can say "pen geltim lontratan cyprus'a shopping icin" (in londoner accent "I came to Cyprus from London for shopping". Don't tell me Mic speaks Turkish better than you!

Thank you for pointing out the obvious.

[2fan]

Erolz,
Do you speak greek?

I speak neither Greek or Turkish. Just english and a little french.

Are you joking? At least you can say "pen geltim lontratan cyprus'a shopping icin" (in londoner accent "I came to Cyprus from London for shopping". Don't tell me Mic speaks Turkish better than you!

Thank you for pointing out the obvious.

I think erolz is in denial! Don't forget your roots.

[erolz]

EROLZ

When I said that "we will sort through these problems" I meant that we will address and solve these problems as a civilization..eventually. Why are you so defensinsive?

I was not trying to be defensive as far as I am concerned. I was trying to establish what / who you meant as 'we'. I guess I did make a guess that by we you meant londoners / brits - hence my explaination of my own backgroud.

All I was trying to do was to ease your pain because I saw that you were deeply affected by the events unfolding in the UK.

And for the attempt I thank you though it's not pain I feel but concern. However as I said before simply being told 'dont worry about it' does not ease my concern. You sentiments are noted and appreciated but I hope you can also appreciate my persective?

From now on you will not get any sympathy from me.

That is your choice I guess. I was not and am not looking for sympathy - but I thank you for the previous expressions of such you have made towards me even if there has been some misunderstanding re your intent by me. I am simply discussing the issue.

Moreover, you seem to have a negative attitude toward mainland Turks getting involved in the politics regarding your precious little island. Don't forget that it was the mainland Turks that invaded the island to protect your ass.

I do not know how you have got this impression from my posts?

Furthermore, I wonder how many CGs do not speak Greek. You're a TC and do not speak Turkish. You should get busy on that subject.

I do not know how many GC do not speak Greek. However I am a citizen of the TRNC and there is no requirment on me to speak Turkish. I will learn Turkish as and when is conveint for me to do so.

I extended my hand to you when you came up with the idea to clean up Greek cemeteries in the north and you shot me down citing that it is an Cypriot problem to be solved by Cypriots. You assumed that I have no interests in Cyprus.

And I thanked all who showed such support as far as I recall. Again I do not know how you got the impression that you express above? As far as I am concerend when I finally get this cemetaries project going support from anyone will be welcome - regadless of race, ethnicity or nationality. To me that is the whole point of the idea - to show that we are humans first and as such share many values in common and can work togeather at this level regardless of politics.

I do not know how we have got to have so much misundertanding between us but for any part I have played in this misunderstanding I appologise.

Who died and made you king?

No comment.