Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

Don't know Malapapa ... you and they have a lot in common!

Seems like any Turk represents you, differing only by degrees!

There's nothing wrong with having nothing to say unless you insist on saying it.

I would advise you of the same regarding your opinions on the ethnicity of the majority of this island!

I wouldn't bother.

No, another totalitarian like Bananiot!

No room for you in a democratic Cyprus ....

[Bananiot]

Now you are being silly, Malapapa. We means the majority of the GC community and I shouldn't have to spell it for you. What you and i wanted is of no significance.

[Piratis]

Don't be stupid Malapapa. There is nothing wrong for the TC's and the settlers to seek connection with Turkey. Damn it, we wanted to unite Cyprus with Greece and you have an issue with the special status of connection. It is an election ploy anyway, to get the settlers to vote for Talat, probably on the instructions of Turkey. Talat is our best hope for solution and the problem that I see is that the rejectionists in our side do not want solution because this will elevate the TC's into equal our partners and they will not be just "the headless Turks" as we knew them.

As always you are playing the game of Turkey. As you admitted Turkey wants Talat also. Why? Because while any TC puppet will be exactly the same as any other TC puppet in the negotiations, Talat provides to the Turks a better image, allowing to them to pretend that they want a solution.

And one more thing: TCs are a small minority, not "equal partners". The aim is to liberate the 1/3rd of our island still under foreign occupation, not to put the whole of Cyprus in the hands of the foreign invaders again. We want a united Cyprus, but not united under the Turks, or else we would have been satisfied by staying under the Ottomans.

2/3rd of Cyprus free and fighting for the liberation of the other 3rd is much better than the whole of Cyprus under Turkish rule with no means to fight for freedom and justice.

[Paphitis]

Don't be stupid Malapapa. There is nothing wrong for the TC's and the settlers to seek connection with Turkey. Damn it, we wanted to unite Cyprus with Greece and you have an issue with the special status of connection. It is an election ploy anyway, to get the settlers to vote for Talat, probably on the instructions of Turkey. Talat is our best hope for solution and the problem that I see is that the rejectionists in our side do not want solution because this will elevate the TC's into equal our partners and they will not be just "the headless Turks" as we knew them.

Really?

Then there is nothing wrong for the Greek Cypriots (Greeks of Cyprus) to be seeking connection with Greece!

So now you admit that ENOSIS was justified back in the 50s and 60s because there is nothing wrong with seeking a connection to Greece.

You may say that this is just an election ploy, and maybe this is true, but yet this may not be the case since Talat (Turkey) have not even made one concession. Yes that's right, not even one tiny concession. We on the other hand, have made many concessions to support a re-unified Cyprus, but Talat, or should I say, Turkey, has been most unwilling to compromise with good will in order to support the talks and find a workable solution!

So I would say that his election slogan appears most accurate.

Since I am a firm believer that there will not be a solution from the current talks, I will be hoping that Eroglu wins these "elections". It is just fa more convenient for our side to have Eroglu in the chair, because it will make our job far easier when we all progress to the blame game phase after the talks collapse.

Here are my predictions. Alexander Downer will also resign from his post and he will use Eroglu's 'election' as the catalyst for his resignation. This will mark the definite collapse of the talks.

[Bananiot]

It is good practice to try and find contradictions in what an adversary says. However, trying to make inferences is an art mastered only by people without a biased mind.

I repeat what I said time and time again. It is to the interest of Cyprus that Turkey becomes full member of the EU. In fact, it will be great news for Greece too. Thus, if anyone infers from the above that I keep the interests of Turkey at heart, he better stay with the jokes section.

The Greek Cypriot people of Cyprus, as I said on many occasions, had the legitimate right to want enosis. The way the petition was organised did not even come close to a vote. Two books were used and if one felt he did not support enosis he had to open the red book, in front of everybody else, in order to sign against the national aspiration. I stress that in 1950 the GC's were legitimate in asking for enosis. However, their leaders betrayed them badly and turned enosis into a nightmare that eventually caused us dearly. Our leaders never considered the concerns of a large chunk of the population of Cyprus. In fact, they were so sure that the TC's would react that instead of consultation and giving of assurances to a population that could have listened, they schemed for the eradication of the TC's. The same leadership (made up of a pompous priest and a fascist general) chose the wrong form of struggle and started killing 18 year old English girls in order to achieve the sacred goal of enosis.

The legitimate dream of enosis was killed for ever by the leaders of the Greek Cyprus. These leaders are still worshipped today, by the natives, who have learned nothing from history and are ready to make similar and worse mistakes again.

One such mistake would be to deny that the TC's will be our equal partners in a reunited Cyprus.

[Paphitis]

It is good practice to try and find contradictions in what an adversary says. However, trying to make inferences is an art mastered only by people without a biased mind.

I repeat what I said time and time again. It is to the interest of Cyprus that Turkey becomes full member of the EU. In fact, it will be great news for Greece too. Thus, if anyone infers from the above that I keep the interests of Turkey at heart, he better stay with the jokes section.

The Greek Cypriot people of Cyprus, as I said on many occasions, had the legitimate right to want enosis. The way the petition was organised did not even come close to a vote. Two books were used and if one felt he did not support enosis he had to open the red book, in front of everybody else, in order to sign against the national aspiration. I stress that in 1950 the GC's were legitimate in asking for enosis. However, their leaders betrayed them badly and turned enosis into a nightmare that eventually caused us dearly. Our leaders never considered the concerns of a large chunk of the population of Cyprus. In fact, they were so sure that the TC's would react that instead of consultation and giving of assurances to a population that could have listened, they schemed for the eradication of the TC's. The same leadership (made up of a pompous priest and a fascist general) chose the wrong form of struggle and started killing 18 year old English girls in order to achieve the sacred goal of enosis.

The legitimate dream of enosis was killed for ever by the leaders of the Greek Cyprus. These leaders are still worshipped today, by the natives, who have learned nothing from history and are ready to make similar and worse mistakes again.

One such mistake would be to deny that the TC's will be our equal partners in a reunited Cyprus.

My apologies for misunderstanding your earlier post. So we both agree that ENOSIS was a legitimate cause. Fine, let's move on.

What you are saying above is that Makarios and Grivas both made very grave errors of judgment. I accept this, and have been saying the same thing all along.

Makarios, in my view was an inadequate politician. He should not have signed the Zurich Agreements, and I say that because I disagree how the Zurich Agreement was ethnically based on 2 separate communities, and rights were afforded to those communities as opposed to the individual. I don't say this because I wanted ENOSIS, as independence is acceptable as far as I am concerned. Therefore, if the Zurich Agreement comprised a more conventional constitution, such as what is the case in many countries, where rights are afforded to Cypriot Nationals as equal citizens of the new Republic, then I would've been very happy.

Grivas, was no doubt a very strong and unyielding military mind, that never really abandoned ENOSIS. He too made very grave errors. For instance, his decision to start a National Struggle, in hindsight, has been proven wrong. If we waited a few years, Cypriots would have been able to successfully demand full self determination by 1960. Nevertheless, the struggle commenced, and Grivas had lots of nerve and courage to wage Guerrilla Warfare against the British Army. He, and his men, served their country admirably and under very difficult circumstances and against all odds. Many were killed fighting for ENOSIS/self determination.

My point is, despite both Makarios and Grivas making some grave errors in the 50s and again throughout the 60s, both were steadfast in their ideals and passion for Cyprus. Both men sincerely wanted the good of Cyprus. And even their relationship soured in the end, as Makarios was no doubt the realist and more stable, and Grivas being unable to forgo his objectives which he never abandoned.

Yes Bananiot. Both men are human. They made mistakes. But they are heroes! What they achieved between 1955-1959 was nothing short of remarkable. Their actions bordered insanity, for deciding to stand up against a superpower.

I don't have a problem with TCs being equal to every other Cypriot national. When this is skewed, we start to run into problems!

[Piratis]

It is good practice to try and find contradictions in what an adversary says. However, trying to make inferences is an art mastered only by people without a biased mind.

I repeat what I said time and time again. It is to the interest of Cyprus that Turkey becomes full member of the EU. In fact, it will be great news for Greece too. Thus, if anyone infers from the above that I keep the interests of Turkey at heart, he better stay with the jokes section.

The Greek Cypriot people of Cyprus, as I said on many occasions, had the legitimate right to want enosis. The way the petition was organised did not even come close to a vote. Two books were used and if one felt he did not support enosis he had to open the red book, in front of everybody else, in order to sign against the national aspiration. I stress that in 1950 the GC's were legitimate in asking for enosis. However, their leaders betrayed them badly and turned enosis into a nightmare that eventually caused us dearly. Our leaders never considered the concerns of a large chunk of the population of Cyprus. In fact, they were so sure that the TC's would react that instead of consultation and giving of assurances to a population that could have listened, they schemed for the eradication of the TC's. The same leadership (made up of a pompous priest and a fascist general) chose the wrong form of struggle and started killing 18 year old English girls in order to achieve the sacred goal of enosis.

The legitimate dream of enosis was killed for ever by the leaders of the Greek Cyprus. These leaders are still worshipped today, by the natives, who have learned nothing from history and are ready to make similar and worse mistakes again.

One such mistake would be to deny that the TC's will be our equal partners in a reunited Cyprus.

The Imperialists denied to the Cypriot people the right to democratically choose the destiny of their own island among all legitimate options (not the options they wanted to allow us). The British could have easily organized an official referendum where all Cypriots could vote freely. They didn't because they knew what the result of such referendum would be and they wanted their own power politics to determine the destiny of Cyprus instead of allowing the Cypriot people to democratically take decisions for their own island.

Making the TCs "equal partners" in Cyprus means giving to Turkey the control of the whole Cyprus. The TC minority would be indebted to Turkey for giving to their small minority land and power stolen from us, and they will pay their debt to Turkey by continuing to serve the Turkish interests in Cyprus on the expense of the interests of the Cypriot people. If we agree to such a "solution" then the puppets of Turkey that today run the "trnc" will run the whole of Cyprus. The whole Cyprus would become a Turkish banana republic.

Do you seriously want the whole of Cyprus to be run from the Turkish embassy in Nicosia?

[EPSILON]

Don't be stupid Malapapa. There is nothing wrong for the TC's and the settlers to seek connection with Turkey. Damn it, we wanted to unite Cyprus with Greece and you have an issue with the special status of connection. It is an election ploy anyway, to get the settlers to vote for Talat, probably on the instructions of Turkey. Talat is our best hope for solution and the problem that I see is that the rejectionists in our side do not want solution because this will elevate the TC's into equal our partners and they will not be just "the headless Turks" as we knew them.

Name us one person in G/cs side who support union with Greece!!!
You,like many others , mixed up the fact to be Greek to the target to be a Greek Republic citizen.

[Viewpoint]

Piratis you are up to your old tricks they denied us our democratic rights of either the GC way or the highway well it was our death warrant so we will not excuse ourselves for fighting for survival. Why should we want Turkey to have control over a united Cyprus when we have a stronger partnership with GCs?

[Piratis]

Piratis you are up to your old tricks they denied us our democratic rights of either the GC way or the highway well it was our death warrant so we will not excuse ourselves for fighting for survival.

You didn't fight for "survival", you fought for having gains on our expense and this is what you continue doing.

Why should we want Turkey to have control over a united Cyprus when we have a stronger partnership with GCs?

It is easy to have a partnership with Turkey since you both collaborate to have gains on the expense of the Cypriot people.

Are you saying that we should voluntarily give to you more than what Turkey can extract by force from us, so you will like us more than you like Turkey? Is this what you call "partnership"?

And say we went crazy and we did such thing. Would you really trust GCs to tolerate indefinitely such an oppression against them? Wouldn't you expect that sooner or later GCs would revolt like any decent people would, seeking democracy and human rights?

Of course you would expect it, and therefore you wouldn't want to dissatisfy Turkey by disobeying her because it is only with the weapons of Turkey that you can continue to oppress the Cypriot people. You know this, and we know this.

The only way for TCs to stop serving the interests of Turkey is if they will have nothing to gain from such collaboration. And for this to happen means no segregation, no racist discriminations and no way for certain group of people to gain any disproportionally large amounts of power just because of their ethnicity.