Cyprus-Forum.com

[kurupetos]

Because 1% (or less than 1%) of a group is deranged and poses a threat to wider society, this is no reason to stigmatise the whole of that group.

I think it was clear on my previous post that I don't mean the people but Islam.

[kurupetos]

but you see tim, our greeks of cyprus and that includes all the charluis do not see the real world only through their greek blue tinted shortsited miopic eyes. they do not see not only that it is such a tiny minority that does this but they also do not see their just as tiny minority christians that do it too. have a look at what cia sponsored agents do in nigeria to innocent muslim community or what christians did in bosnia or even closer to home, what their super heros did at murataga sandallilar, atlilar and dohni. but of course these dont count becasue they are muslims right.

lets face it the average greek of cyprus lives with his head in his arse.

Those minor incidents didn't take place on the name of Christianity, you silly bugger.

[Tim Drayton]

The British citizen in the following interview says he is prepared to renounce his British citizenship if the government will let him go and live in the Islamic State. What are the British authorities waiting for? This must not turn into a vendetta against all British Moslems, but why not let the small minority that think like him go as long as they renounce their citizenship - let's even put on free flights for them. They want to die as martyrs - they don't want to make any effort to fit in with our secular society and we are better off without them, so it's a win-win situation.

http://www.channel4.com/news/radical-br ... iraq-syria

By the way, the part of the world that these people have imposed their rule on (and if they are true Salafists, why can't they go and live as Bedouins in the Arabian desert without bothering anybody?) is quite secular and modern. The people there do not appreciate spoiled brats from rich countries coming and imposing their vision of the Middle Ages on them by force. I predict that, when the tide turns, most of these idiots will be slaughtered by the local population.

Yes but if this guy engages in criminal activity, becomes a combatant, and starts Beheading captured British Journalists and Syrian Soldiers, would this be acceptable to the British People?

Valid point, and as I said it is not going to happen. On the other hand, you can see the beauty of it - people like the bloke in that video who will obviously never
fit into main stream British life just voluntarily leaving and renouncing their citizenship on the way out.

[Tim Drayton]

Every act stands by its own merits. One atrocity is not made right because another was committed. Yes, horrendous acts were committed when Yugoslavia fell apart as they were when the Republic of Cyprus fell apart. I believe that those responsible for the Anglo-American neo-imperialist adventure in Iraq and Afghanistan are responsible for human rights abuses equal to or even worse than those now being committed by the jihadists in Syria and Iraq. But this does not absolve the latter of their guilt. They have declared all Shiites to be kafirs and are slaughtering them on sight. They are even filming such crimes and posting them on social media. This is genocide and it is happening now. At least they are giving Christians the opportunity to convert or pay punitive taxes. Not that I am justifying the treatment they are meeting out to anybody in the territory they control. The whole world seems to be appalled. Just about all parties to the international community will support action: the West, Russia, Iran, Assad's Syria. The Kurdish PKK rebels in Turkey to their credit are there to help defend Iraqi Kurdistan against the Islamic State. All it takes is one UN resolution that no country will oppose and a short, swift, surgical operation to finish off this curse. I am somebody who has marched in protest against Bush and Blair's Iraq war, but I would welcome an intervention now. Yet, oddly it is not happening. Either Uncle Sam is moving stealthily, or there is more to this than meets the eye. As I have pointed out before, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence linking the current Islamist regime in Turkey with these jihadists, and that regime, in my view, was installed by the US to do US's bidding, especially in international affairs. So - go figure.

It's not happening because they fear getting dragged into a long term war and occupation like Afghanistan and Iraq 1.

They will place small numbers of elite Special Forces which will be responsible for reconnaissance, intelligence gathering and calling in targets for persistent Air Strikes but that is about it.

It seems they should have done this earlier in Syria. If Assad is taken down, then things may very well be a lot more worse.

What long term war? Who is going to come in on their side? Even Al-Qaeda opposes them as being too extreme. OK, stupidly they have been permitted to get hold of quite a lot of sophisticated Iraqi army weapons and they have tacit support from places like Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, but even those countries are not going to come out publicly in their favour. I do not see what chance they would stand against an 'unholy' alliance taking in the West, Russia, Iran, Syria the PKK .. whoever wants to join in. One strike and they are finished.

[Paphitis]

Every act stands by its own merits. One atrocity is not made right because another was committed. Yes, horrendous acts were committed when Yugoslavia fell apart as they were when the Republic of Cyprus fell apart. I believe that those responsible for the Anglo-American neo-imperialist adventure in Iraq and Afghanistan are responsible for human rights abuses equal to or even worse than those now being committed by the jihadists in Syria and Iraq. But this does not absolve the latter of their guilt. They have declared all Shiites to be kafirs and are slaughtering them on sight. They are even filming such crimes and posting them on social media. This is genocide and it is happening now. At least they are giving Christians the opportunity to convert or pay punitive taxes. Not that I am justifying the treatment they are meeting out to anybody in the territory they control. The whole world seems to be appalled. Just about all parties to the international community will support action: the West, Russia, Iran, Assad's Syria. The Kurdish PKK rebels in Turkey to their credit are there to help defend Iraqi Kurdistan against the Islamic State. All it takes is one UN resolution that no country will oppose and a short, swift, surgical operation to finish off this curse. I am somebody who has marched in protest against Bush and Blair's Iraq war, but I would welcome an intervention now. Yet, oddly it is not happening. Either Uncle Sam is moving stealthily, or there is more to this than meets the eye. As I have pointed out before, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence linking the current Islamist regime in Turkey with these jihadists, and that regime, in my view, was installed by the US to do US's bidding, especially in international affairs. So - go figure.

It's not happening because they fear getting dragged into a long term war and occupation like Afghanistan and Iraq 1.

They will place small numbers of elite Special Forces which will be responsible for reconnaissance, intelligence gathering and calling in targets for persistent Air Strikes but that is about it.

It seems they should have done this earlier in Syria. If Assad is taken down, then things may very well be a lot more worse.

What long term war? Who is going to come in on their side? Even Al-Qaeda opposes them as being too extreme. OK, stupidly they have been permitted to get hold of quite a lot of sophisticated Iraqi army weapons and they have tacit support from places like Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, but even those countries are not going to come out publicly in their favour. I do not see what chance they would stand against an 'unholy' alliance taking in the West, Russia, Iran, Syria the PKK .. whoever wants to join in. One strike and they are finished.

It's really hard fighting clandestine groups like Islamic State. The US has been in Afghanistan for over a decade, and yet Al Qaeda/Taliban and their affiliates still survive albeit on the outer fringes.

Hopefully they can be finished off quickly. I think the US will go on the offensive. No choice. But the action will be limited to Air Strikes and supplying the Kurds to finish them off.

[Tim Drayton]

Every act stands by its own merits. One atrocity is not made right because another was committed. Yes, horrendous acts were committed when Yugoslavia fell apart as they were when the Republic of Cyprus fell apart. I believe that those responsible for the Anglo-American neo-imperialist adventure in Iraq and Afghanistan are responsible for human rights abuses equal to or even worse than those now being committed by the jihadists in Syria and Iraq. But this does not absolve the latter of their guilt. They have declared all Shiites to be kafirs and are slaughtering them on sight. They are even filming such crimes and posting them on social media. This is genocide and it is happening now. At least they are giving Christians the opportunity to convert or pay punitive taxes. Not that I am justifying the treatment they are meeting out to anybody in the territory they control. The whole world seems to be appalled. Just about all parties to the international community will support action: the West, Russia, Iran, Assad's Syria. The Kurdish PKK rebels in Turkey to their credit are there to help defend Iraqi Kurdistan against the Islamic State. All it takes is one UN resolution that no country will oppose and a short, swift, surgical operation to finish off this curse. I am somebody who has marched in protest against Bush and Blair's Iraq war, but I would welcome an intervention now. Yet, oddly it is not happening. Either Uncle Sam is moving stealthily, or there is more to this than meets the eye. As I have pointed out before, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence linking the current Islamist regime in Turkey with these jihadists, and that regime, in my view, was installed by the US to do US's bidding, especially in international affairs. So - go figure.

It's not happening because they fear getting dragged into a long term war and occupation like Afghanistan and Iraq 1.

They will place small numbers of elite Special Forces which will be responsible for reconnaissance, intelligence gathering and calling in targets for persistent Air Strikes but that is about it.

It seems they should have done this earlier in Syria. If Assad is taken down, then things may very well be a lot more worse.

What long term war? Who is going to come in on their side? Even Al-Qaeda opposes them as being too extreme. OK, stupidly they have been permitted to get hold of quite a lot of sophisticated Iraqi army weapons and they have tacit support from places like Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, but even those countries are not going to come out publicly in their favour. I do not see what chance they would stand against an 'unholy' alliance taking in the West, Russia, Iran, Syria the PKK .. whoever wants to join in. One strike and they are finished.

It's really hard fighting clandestine groups like Islamic State. The US has been in Afghanistan for over a decade, and yet Al Qaeda/Taliban and their affiliates still survive albeit on the outer fringes.

Hopefully they can be finished off quickly. I think the US will go on the offensive. No choice. But the action will be limited to Air Strikes and supplying the Kurds to finish them off.

I don't buy it, I'm sorry. These are not people operating on their own terrain who can melt into the background at a moment's notice. A scenario is being created for some reason. Many left-wing Turks believe that the US created and supported this group to serve its own neo-imperialist designs in Iraq, which are to split this oil-rich country into three smaller and weaker units that will be less capable of defending their own interests than a unified Iraq is/was. When you look at the evidence linking the Turkish regime with these jihadists and the ease with which they can operate in Turkey - there are even allegations that their wounded are being treated in Turkish hospitals - and consider that Turkey is an American client state, it makes you wonder. It is certainly a great deal more complex than any simple conspiracy theory can explain, but there seems to be at least a grain of truth in this. I am wondering if these jihadists have been set up as fall guys and they are just letting these psychopaths give themselves plenty of rope to hang themselves before some kind of intervention is made. They are certainly their own worst enemies in terms of propaganda with all this footage of them beheading people floating around the social media and put there by themselves. The way so much media coverage is being given to this makes me think that something is brewing - just like the huge campaign to vilify Cyprus in the German media before Cyprus was financially crucified - something that people in Germany were conditioned to see as being just. Perhaps world public opinion is now being readied to applaud a bloody intervention whose real motives are not what they appear to be. I don't really know and I can't do anything about it, anyway. I can only watch events with a degree of cynicism. I would love to see the people of the area that Islamic State has declared its own break through the barrier of fear and rebel. I can only hope.

[Tim Drayton]

Incidentally, I came across this fascinating thread with people from a number of Arab countries discussing secularism (in English):

http://www.reddit.com/r/arabs/comments/ ... o_secular/

It shows that there are plenty of people in the Arab world who are centuries ahead of Islamic State in their thinking.

[repulsewarrior]

wow, indeed, a very interesting conversation, (and hopeful), thanks for the link Tim.

[Cap]

^

You realize you just said jesus Christ.

Honey we're all kuffar here.

[Paphitis]

Every act stands by its own merits. One atrocity is not made right because another was committed. Yes, horrendous acts were committed when Yugoslavia fell apart as they were when the Republic of Cyprus fell apart. I believe that those responsible for the Anglo-American neo-imperialist adventure in Iraq and Afghanistan are responsible for human rights abuses equal to or even worse than those now being committed by the jihadists in Syria and Iraq. But this does not absolve the latter of their guilt. They have declared all Shiites to be kafirs and are slaughtering them on sight. They are even filming such crimes and posting them on social media. This is genocide and it is happening now. At least they are giving Christians the opportunity to convert or pay punitive taxes. Not that I am justifying the treatment they are meeting out to anybody in the territory they control. The whole world seems to be appalled. Just about all parties to the international community will support action: the West, Russia, Iran, Assad's Syria. The Kurdish PKK rebels in Turkey to their credit are there to help defend Iraqi Kurdistan against the Islamic State. All it takes is one UN resolution that no country will oppose and a short, swift, surgical operation to finish off this curse. I am somebody who has marched in protest against Bush and Blair's Iraq war, but I would welcome an intervention now. Yet, oddly it is not happening. Either Uncle Sam is moving stealthily, or there is more to this than meets the eye. As I have pointed out before, there is a lot of circumstantial evidence linking the current Islamist regime in Turkey with these jihadists, and that regime, in my view, was installed by the US to do US's bidding, especially in international affairs. So - go figure.

It's not happening because they fear getting dragged into a long term war and occupation like Afghanistan and Iraq 1.

They will place small numbers of elite Special Forces which will be responsible for reconnaissance, intelligence gathering and calling in targets for persistent Air Strikes but that is about it.

It seems they should have done this earlier in Syria. If Assad is taken down, then things may very well be a lot more worse.

What long term war? Who is going to come in on their side? Even Al-Qaeda opposes them as being too extreme. OK, stupidly they have been permitted to get hold of quite a lot of sophisticated Iraqi army weapons and they have tacit support from places like Turkey, Saudi Arabia and Qatar, but even those countries are not going to come out publicly in their favour. I do not see what chance they would stand against an 'unholy' alliance taking in the West, Russia, Iran, Syria the PKK .. whoever wants to join in. One strike and they are finished.

It's really hard fighting clandestine groups like Islamic State. The US has been in Afghanistan for over a decade, and yet Al Qaeda/Taliban and their affiliates still survive albeit on the outer fringes.

Hopefully they can be finished off quickly. I think the US will go on the offensive. No choice. But the action will be limited to Air Strikes and supplying the Kurds to finish them off.

I don't buy it, I'm sorry. These are not people operating on their own terrain who can melt into the background at a moment's notice. A scenario is being created for some reason. Many left-wing Turks believe that the US created and supported this group to serve its own neo-imperialist designs in Iraq, which are to split this oil-rich country into three smaller and weaker units that will be less capable of defending their own interests than a unified Iraq is/was. When you look at the evidence linking the Turkish regime with these jihadists and the ease with which they can operate in Turkey - there are even allegations that their wounded are being treated in Turkish hospitals - and consider that Turkey is an American client state, it makes you wonder. It is certainly a great deal more complex than any simple conspiracy theory can explain, but there seems to be at least a grain of truth in this. I am wondering if these jihadists have been set up as fall guys and they are just letting these psychopaths give themselves plenty of rope to hang themselves before some kind of intervention is made. They are certainly their own worst enemies in terms of propaganda with all this footage of them beheading people floating around the social media and put there by themselves. The way so much media coverage is being given to this makes me think that something is brewing - just like the huge campaign to vilify Cyprus in the German media before Cyprus was financially crucified - something that people in Germany were conditioned to see as being just. Perhaps world public opinion is now being readied to applaud a bloody intervention whose real motives are not what they appear to be. I don't really know and I can't do anything about it, anyway. I can only watch events with a degree of cynicism. I would love to see the people of the area that Islamic State has declared its own break through the barrier of fear and rebel. I can only hope.

I don't buy that either. Islamic State was not created by the US. If this were the case, then why would they attack US interests. It's like biting the hand that feeds you.

I do not doubt that Turkey has been supplying ISIS. But Turkey has not been playing ball lately as far as US interests are concerned. What I believe is that the Islamic State would have had free reign if they did not attack the Kurds. The Christian refugees were the straw that broke the camels back but the main reason is to protect the Kurds.

Even after the beheading of Foley, the US seems very reluctant. They want to stay out of Iraq. Maybe the Obama Administration is under pressure internally. I do think the US will attack Islamic State from the air. A ground invasion seems unlikely.

Let's face it Tim. I don't think it would matter to the Americans if Iraq was carved up or not. If the US wanted to invade, then they could do it reasonably easily. I don't think that is an objective. The Americans have withdrawn from Iraq and they don't want to go back.