Cyprus-Forum.com

[Paphitis]

Paphitis, when Dawkins hears thunder he shuts his curtains and moves away from the window. When he feels an earthquake he ducks under the nearest table. When he senses a storm he shuts his doors and windows, and when his children are seriously ill he heads for the emergency ward! Such is the “power” of Dawkins, a vulnerable mere mortal like you and I, so quoting his personal struggles with God which he saw fit to publish is not shedding any light here!

In my view the prerequisites for a human being to even begin to seriously contemplate the existence of God are…

1. A genuine acknowledgement of one’s vulnerability and insignificance in the universe.

2. A profound feeling of shame that one is part of such a feeble and reckless group of beings, we call humanity.

3. Feeling (overwhelmingly) awestruck by the magnitude and complexity of the cosmos and the force behind it.

Overall it’s called humbling yourself before that which is above and beyond you, but people like Hawkings and Dawkins are obviously far too clever for that!

Gosh mate, don't think claims of alleged cleverness or otherwise come in to it. Think it's really about asking and trying to answer some very simple and very unclever and some very humbling questions .......

Questions like .... What's the world beyond me look like, what are those bright lights in the night sky about, how do things work etc and then to ask ...... how do I fit in to this?

... and in answering these questions to come up with a Description of the world around us, one which is the Best Description we can all agree on. That's not to say that we won't find a Better Description in the future, after all the whole of the History of Science tells us that there is always going to be a Better Description and that Science will always be a work in progress.

Now if you and others think that the existence of a God, a Creator God, is the Best way to Describe the world around us then really you must make better attempts to prove He exists, cos for thousands of years believers have been making Exta-ordinary and Most Remarkable Claims, so you really need to come up with equally Extra-ordinary and Remarkable Evidence to back up your claims.

..... cos to date, in the thousands of years we have had to endure dozens of Rubbish Religions and Crappy Cults and other Mythical Mysteries you haven't come up with even the slightest scrap of evidence.

Jees ... not even a single Quantum Fluctuation-sized bit of evidence! What's that telling us?

Great post Bill!

[Bananiot]

Or simply, compare the lifestyles of people like Hawkins, Dawkins and other contemporary scientists with that our Archbishop. If there is God, I know on whose side he will be. Also, think about the deep down reasons as to why people want to believe in God. Mostly they are reasons of selfishness and greed. People who are not satisfied with one long existence on earth and want another life after ... death which will be eternal! Of course this has been the promise of the representatives of god on earth and the phobic natives have fallen for it so easily. How else could they command the attention of the scared of death masses? Its a powerful message "life after death", bloody hell even our GR has fallen for it, without shown any creditable links.

[Paphitis]

Or simply, compare the lifestyles of people like Hawkins, Dawkins and other contemporary scientists with that our Archbishop. If there is God, I know on whose side he will be. Also, think about the deep down reasons as to why people want to believe in God. Mostly they are reasons of selfishness and greed. People who are not satisfied with one long existence on earth and want another life after ... death which will be eternal! Of course this has been the promise of the representatives of god on earth and the phobic natives have fallen for it so easily. How else could they command the attention of the scared of death masses? Its a powerful message "life after death", bloody hell even our GR has fallen for it, without shown any creditable links.

Too right Bananiot!

Selfishness and greed. And then they have the audacity to say that we are not humble.

This is the very selfishness and greed that has annihilated the real Hellenism!

[Me Ed]

The way most post-enlightenment Christians reconcile God and Science is to view God as the "why" and science as the "how".

So I have no problem in believing in both God and evolution.

History has shown us, that when you abolish the "how", i.e. science you end up with witch-hunts, inquisitions, crusades etc as perpertrated primarily by the western Roman church during the dark ages with more recent examples including the Taliban.

However, when you abolish the "why" you end up with equally evil regimes such as the former soviet Union and the Nazis.

Yes, there are, and have been, a few bad apples in the GOC, but fortunately the GOC is too big to have its reputation tarnished by these individuals.

Equally, there are, and have been, scientists that have falsified data to illicit funding and money, and this is a much bigger problem than people may think, but the Scientific community is too big to have its reputaion tarnished by these individuals.

[Paphitis]

However, when you abolish the "why" you end up with equally evil regimes such as the former soviet Union and the Nazis.

Your thesis falls apart since you appear to assume that the evil doings of Hitler and Stalin were as a direct result of their 'Atheistic' views even though Hitler was in actual fact a devout Catholic!

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

Atheists are also capable of evil, and the fact that they are Atheist is just pure coincidence! George Bush is a devout Christian fundamentalist, and some will argue that he was the most evil of all US Presidents. His legacy was anything but pure or 'Christian'.

The evil doings of ALL religions, with their hatred and intolerance, both in the past and even to this very day, is anything but a coincidence. On the contrary, they use "God" to justify their evil deeds, and our history is riddled with many examples!

[Me Ed]

However, when you abolish the "why" you end up with equally evil regimes such as the former soviet Union and the Nazis.

Your thesis falls apart since you appear to assume that the evil doings of Hitler and Stalin were as a direct result of their 'Atheistic' views even though Hitler was in actual fact a devout Catholic!

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm

Atheists are also capable of evil, and the fact that they are Atheist is just pure coincidence! George Bush is a devout Christian fundamentalist, and some will argue that he was the most evil of all US Presidents. His legacy was anything but pure or 'Christian'.

The evil doings of ALL religions, with their hatred and intolerance, both in the past and even to this very day, is anything but a coincidence. On the contrary, they use "God" to justify their evil deeds, and our history is riddled with many examples!

What Hitler actually said about Christianity, taken from

http://www.answers.org/apologetics/hitquote.html

Night of 11th-12th July, 1941:

National Socialism and religion cannot exist together.... The heaviest blow that ever struck humanity was the coming of Christianity. Bolshevism is Christianity's illegitimate child. Both are inventions of the Jew. The deliberate lie in the matter of religion was introduced into the world by Christianity.... Let it not be said that Christianity brought man the life of the soul, for that evolution was in the natural order of things. (p 6 & 7)

10th October, 1941, midday:

Christianity is a rebellion against natural law, a protest against nature. Taken to its logical extreme, Christianity would mean the systematic cultivation of the human failure. (p 43)

14th October, 1941, midday:

The best thing is to let Christianity die a natural death.... When understanding of the universe has become widespread... Christian doctrine will be convicted of absurdity.... Christianity has reached the peak of absurdity.... And that's why someday its structure will collapse.... ...the only way to get rid of Christianity is to allow it to die little by little.... Christianity the liar.... We'll see to it that the Churches cannot spread abroad teachings in conflict with the interests of the State. (p 49-52)

19th October, 1941, night:

The reason why the ancient world was so pure, light and serene was that it knew nothing of the two great scourges: the pox and Christianity.

21st October, 1941, midday:

Originally, Christianity was merely an incarnation of Bolshevism, the destroyer.... The decisive falsification of Jesus' doctrine was the work of St.Paul. He gave himself to this work... for the purposes of personal exploitation.... Didn't the world see, carried on right into the Middle Ages, the same old system of martyrs, tortures, faggots? Of old, it was in the name of Christianity. Today, it's in the name of Bolshevism. Yesterday the instigator was Saul: the instigator today, Mardochai. Saul was changed into St.Paul, and Mardochai into Karl Marx. By exterminating this pest, we shall do humanity a service of which our soldiers can have no idea. (p 63-65)

13th December, 1941, midnight:

Christianity is an invention of sick brains: one could imagine nothing more senseless, nor any more indecent way of turning the idea of the Godhead into a mockery.... .... When all is said, we have no reason to wish that the Italians and Spaniards should free themselves from the drug of Christianity. Let's be the only people who are immunised against the disease. (p 118 & 119)


14th December, 1941, midday:

Kerrl, with noblest of intentions, wanted to attempt a synthesis between National Socialism and Christianity. I don't believe the thing's possible, and I see the obstacle in Christianity itself.... Pure Christianity-- the Christianity of the catacombs-- is concerned with translating Christian doctrine into facts. It leads quite simply to the annihilation of mankind. It is merely whole-hearted Bolshevism, under a tinsel of metaphysics. (p 119 & 120)

9th April, 1942, dinner:

There is something very unhealthy about Christianity (p 339)

27th February, 1942, midday:

It would always be disagreeable for me to go down to posterity as a man who made concessions in this field. I realize that man, in his imperfection, can commit innumerable errors-- but to devote myself deliberately to errors, that is something I cannot do. I shall never come personally to terms with the Christian lie. Our epoch Uin the next 200 yearse will certainly see the end of the disease of Christianity.... My regret will have been that I couldn't... behold ." (p 278)

They sound very similar to your rantings and when you compare Hitlers paganism and your cult of Aphrodite, things don't bode too well for your character.

The evil doings of ALL religions, with their hatred and intolerance, both in the past and even to this very day, is anything but a coincidence. On the contrary, they use "God" to justify their evil deeds, and our history is riddled with many examples!

replace "ALL religions" with "ALL people" and you will get there.

[Paphitis]

Once again you are broadcasting your limitations by attributing Hitler's and Stalin's actions to their "Atheistic" approach which in Hitler's case is hotly contested.

But since you have reduced this thread to the absurd and ridiculous, allow me to deal a blow to your very own misconceptions.

Hitler's religious beliefs and fanaticism

http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm

The Christianity of Hitler revealed in his speeches and proclamations

http://www.nobeliefs.com/speeches.htm

Hitler's Bible--Monumental History of Mankind

Hitlers Bible notes show how the Bible influenced Hitler

http://www.nobeliefs.com/HitlerBible.htm

(This may perhaps offer an insight as to shy Hitler wanted to exterminate the Christ killing Jews!)

[Me Ed]

You are the one who is misguided because your quotes are what Hitler said PUBLICALLY - my quotes are what Hitler thought PRIVATELY - psychology 101.

[Get Real!]

I had a look at the various posts here and I think the problem lies in the fact that far too many people are linking God with man-made interpretations thereof, such as:

1. Places of worship (churches, mosques, temples, etc)

2. Pagan rituals (religious ceremonies for birth, marriage, death, Easter, Xmas, etc)

3. Denominations (disagreements in the interpretation of God and formation of rivalries)

4. The Bible itself which was written by humans and it is alleged that it’s the word of God!

5. The notion of “religion” itself and how it is used to control the masses by offering a reward (inheritance to a wonderful kingdom of God) if you’re a follower or punishment if not (eternal hell).

And many more man-made flawed “aspects of God” which we (Dawkins included) foolishly use to condemn God! But it’s when you start to differentiate between God and all the man-made things allegedly pertaining to God, that we start to see a clearer picture!

Are we able to contemplate God without the use of all the man-made influences that cloud our perception?

Can we overcome millenniums of phenomenal bias bombarding our minds from religious sources?

Are we able to describe God in a little précis without making reference to anything terrestrial?

[Paphitis]

You are the one who is misguided because your quotes are what Hitler said PUBLICALLY - my quotes are what Hitler thought PRIVATELY - psychology 101.

How do you know what he thought privately when his thoughts were private.

Ypou have fallen victim to Christianity's propaganda of attributing evil actions on those they deem as Atheist, and telling us that their actions are no surprise because Atheists are evil....

"Hence today I believe that I am acting in accordance with the will of the Almighty Creator: by defending myself against the Jew, I am fighting for the work of the Lord."

http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitler.htm

Through subterfuge and concealment, many of today's Church leaders and faithful Christians have camouflaged the Christianity of Adolf Hitler and have attempted to mark him an atheist, a pagan cult worshipper, or a false Christian. However, from the earliest formation of the Nazi party and throughout the period of conquest and growth, Hitler expressed his Christian support to the German citizenry and soldiers. In the 1920s, Hitler's German Workers' Party (pre Nazi term) adopted a "Programme" with twenty-five points (the Nazi version of a constitution). In point twenty-four, their intent clearly demonstrates, from the very beginning, their stand in favor of a "positive" Christianity:

24. We demand liberty for all religious denominations in the State, so far as they are not a danger to it and do not militate against the morality and moral sense of the German race. The Party, as such, stands for positive Christianity, but does not bind itself in the matter of creed to any particular confession. It combats the Jewish-materialist spirit within and without us, and is convinced that our nation can achieve permanent health from within only on the principle: the common interest before self-interest.

Hitler's speeches and proclamations, even more clearly, reveal his faith and feelings toward a Christianized Germany. Nazism presents an embarrassment to Christianity and demonstrates the danger of faith. The following words from Hitler show his disdain for atheism, and pagan cults, and reveals the strength of his Christian feelings:

http://www.nobeliefs.com/speeches.htm