Cyprus-Forum.com

[bill cobbett]

What happened DT?

long story mate.

...and there but for The Grace of God goes anyone of us.

Respect and Sympathies.

[Acikgoz]

I didn't justify anything of the sort. I presented some actions and then some reactions that these sort of minds would carry out.

I agree completely on the teaching. The Turkish army however is an enemy of Cyprus and this won't be brushed under the carpet or forgotten while the army is commiting an action that warrants a phsycological reaction from the other side.

Ghandi would hold ill feeling, not some hooligan.

I have not heard one word on a petition for Apoel to be brought to task over this and their breeding ground of racism.
I have seen more sympathy and action brought to bear by GCs for someone not being able to have access to their property than such physical human violence.

And what do you do? You come back to point the finger at the Turkish army... DT please.

Did Ghandi ever promote violence? Or did he work to stop it by promoting love and tolerance?
He was all about non-violence from wherever it came.

[DT.]

I didn't justify anything of the sort. I presented some actions and then some reactions that these sort of minds would carry out.

I agree completely on the teaching. The Turkish army however is an enemy of Cyprus and this won't be brushed under the carpet or forgotten while the army is commiting an action that warrants a phsycological reaction from the other side.

Ghandi would hold ill feeling, not some hooligan.

I have not heard one word on a petition for Apoel to be brought to task over this and their breeding ground of racism.
I have seen more sympathy and action brought to bear by GCs for someone not being able to have access to their property than such physical human violence.

And what do you do? You come back to point the finger at the Turkish army... DT please.

Did Ghandi ever promote violence? Or did he work to stop it by promoting love and tolerance?
He was all about non-violence from wherever it came.

Was Galatasaray bought to task for one of their fans murdering a Leeds fan?

Apoel Ltd as a company both the Chairman and the board have been taking as much action as can be done by a sporting company against any hooligans who choose to hide under the name of Apoel. They've refused to sell season tickets to known culprits and now have instigated a policy whereby no one can by a ticket to watch Apoel without presenting their ID and having the number written on the ticket. That way they can't give the ticket to someone else to get it.

Thats about as much as the team can do, the rest is up to society, the police and the general situation in this occupied country.

I for one despise anyone who is violent against anyone else, I don't discriminate between Tc or Gc as you do. I don't remember you complaining when an Apoel fan was sent to hospital by an omonoia fan so I'm guessing your only concern is when a tc gets involved in any of this.

[BirKibrisli]

Do you really believe that if the flag came down APOEL supporters would stop stoning TC cars,DT...???The fanatics would stop dreaming of Enosis ???

I agree that the flag is an eyesore,and a primitive way of making a point...But what other options do the TCs have???

They have been excluded from power since 1963,treated as unwanted pests for 11 years...Locked up in an open prison,isolated and embargoed since 1974, largely because of your bloody Enosis dream which your side persued with single minded brutality from 1821 to 1974...

So you find the flag objectionable,but quite comfortable with the fact that TCs like myself (tens of thousands of us) have been forced off our ancestral lands,forced to immigrate,because the many generations of GCs immediately before yours dreamt about gifting our homeland to a foreign country no matter what we thought or felt...

How do you think I felt returning to my ancestral village after 40 years and finding it like a ghost town, in ruins and used as a pig farm??? That was not provocation or revoltion but the flag on the mountain is...Is that what you are saying??? You have interesting measures regarding provocation,historical pain and suffering,and their manifestation...

Want to exchange places??? I would be quite happy to look at a Greek flag in the distance every day if I lived in a prosperous part of Cyprus I called my home, had exclusive control of a government and state recognised by the UN and the world community as legitimate,even if I knew that 40,000 Greek soldiers were across the border...What do you say?

My grandparents didn't mind the flag that much. They were rich in Morphou and poor in Nicosia. They didn't consider Nicosia their home. They lived out the rest of their lives in a synoikismos (temporary housing built for refugees) for 25 years waiting to go home. They died waiting. FOr them it didn't make a difference if the country was recognised by the UN or not, or if the country was prosperous or not. All they knew was that they considered TC's the same as any other Cypriot, lived with them, worked with them and never once dreamt of gifting any part of their country to anyone.

If you wanna get personal Bir we can get personal. Wanna swap your nice western life in Oz for my dead grandmother who lived out the last years of her life in a synoikismos?

Leave it out Bir.

You have not addressed any of the issues I raised,DT...You and others are pointing to a flag on a mountain,and talk about how provocative it is,but never look beyond to the reasons why that flag came to be there...It is easy and cheap to take a shot at that monstrocity,but you would have more credibility if you tried to understand and perhaps even empathise with the people who have been forced into drastic actions to preserve their sense of identity and dignity...I expect it from the mindless fanatics but not from you,DT...

[BirKibrisli]

And by the way,my grandparents too died in Nicosia where they were taking turns sheltering with one son or daughter or another,heart-broken and waiting to return to their village in the South...But they don't count ,do they? They were TCs...Nobody invited them to come to Cyprus,and Cyprus wasn't their homeland anyway...

[DT.]

Do you really believe that if the flag came down APOEL supporters would stop stoning TC cars,DT...???The fanatics would stop dreaming of Enosis ???

I agree that the flag is an eyesore,and a primitive way of making a point...But what other options do the TCs have???

They have been excluded from power since 1963,treated as unwanted pests for 11 years...Locked up in an open prison,isolated and embargoed since 1974, largely because of your bloody Enosis dream which your side persued with single minded brutality from 1821 to 1974...

So you find the flag objectionable,but quite comfortable with the fact that TCs like myself (tens of thousands of us) have been forced off our ancestral lands,forced to immigrate,because the many generations of GCs immediately before yours dreamt about gifting our homeland to a foreign country no matter what we thought or felt...

How do you think I felt returning to my ancestral village after 40 years and finding it like a ghost town, in ruins and used as a pig farm??? That was not provocation or revoltion but the flag on the mountain is...Is that what you are saying??? You have interesting measures regarding provocation,historical pain and suffering,and their manifestation...

Want to exchange places??? I would be quite happy to look at a Greek flag in the distance every day if I lived in a prosperous part of Cyprus I called my home, had exclusive control of a government and state recognised by the UN and the world community as legitimate,even if I knew that 40,000 Greek soldiers were across the border...What do you say?

My grandparents didn't mind the flag that much. They were rich in Morphou and poor in Nicosia. They didn't consider Nicosia their home. They lived out the rest of their lives in a synoikismos (temporary housing built for refugees) for 25 years waiting to go home. They died waiting. FOr them it didn't make a difference if the country was recognised by the UN or not, or if the country was prosperous or not. All they knew was that they considered TC's the same as any other Cypriot, lived with them, worked with them and never once dreamt of gifting any part of their country to anyone.

If you wanna get personal Bir we can get personal. Wanna swap your nice western life in Oz for my dead grandmother who lived out the last years of her life in a synoikismos?

Leave it out Bir.

You have not addressed any of the issues I raised,DT...You and others are pointing to a flag on a mountain,and talk about how provocative it is,but never look beyond to the reasons why that flag came to be there...It is easy and cheap to take a shot at that monstrocity,but you would have more credibility if you tried to understand and perhaps even empathise with the people who have been forced into drastic actions to preserve their sense of identity and dignity...I expect it from the mindless fanatics but not from you,DT...[/quote

Lets try something Bir. Lets ask all the TC's here to tell us what they feel about that thing on the mountain. I'll show as much empathy to it as some of my TC friends on this forum will.

Then you tell me what the GC's are doing wrong now, thats so flatly in the face of the TC's and I'll give you my spin on that.

Feel free to mention anything... the way the negotiations are going, trade, travel, army....anything you like.

If I don't agree with something thats going on here for the wrong reasons I condemn it flat out. I don't wait to get empathy from the TC's.

I feel that you've taken a wrong turn my friend. Your need to convince these "crazy" GC's to accept whatever is on offer before the whole island goes to shit is clouding your judgement as a human. Your empathy for example) to the offers made to the TC side during these talks has been non-existant. The "malicious" offers presented to us by the Turkish side were not condemned by you.

[Acikgoz]

I didn't justify anything of the sort. I presented some actions and then some reactions that these sort of minds would carry out.

I agree completely on the teaching. The Turkish army however is an enemy of Cyprus and this won't be brushed under the carpet or forgotten while the army is commiting an action that warrants a phsycological reaction from the other side.

Ghandi would hold ill feeling, not some hooligan.

I have not heard one word on a petition for Apoel to be brought to task over this and their breeding ground of racism.
I have seen more sympathy and action brought to bear by GCs for someone not being able to have access to their property than such physical human violence.

And what do you do? You come back to point the finger at the Turkish army... DT please.

Did Ghandi ever promote violence? Or did he work to stop it by promoting love and tolerance?
He was all about non-violence from wherever it came.

Was Galatasaray bought to task for one of their fans murdering a Leeds fan?

Apoel Ltd as a company both the Chairman and the board have been taking as much action as can be done by a sporting company against any hooligans who choose to hide under the name of Apoel. They've refused to sell season tickets to known culprits and now have instigated a policy whereby no one can by a ticket to watch Apoel without presenting their ID and having the number written on the ticket. That way they can't give the ticket to someone else to get it.

Thats about as much as the team can do, the rest is up to society, the police and the general situation in this occupied country.

I for one despise anyone who is violent against anyone else, I don't discriminate between Tc or Gc as you do. I don't remember you complaining when an Apoel fan was sent to hospital by an omonoia fan so I'm guessing your only concern is when a tc gets involved in any of this.

Apoel has not done enough - just look at the stands on a match day - politics and racism is rife at a sports event. Sorry argument still remains weak particularly the need to deflect rather than address.

[DT.]

I didn't justify anything of the sort. I presented some actions and then some reactions that these sort of minds would carry out.

I agree completely on the teaching. The Turkish army however is an enemy of Cyprus and this won't be brushed under the carpet or forgotten while the army is commiting an action that warrants a phsycological reaction from the other side.

Ghandi would hold ill feeling, not some hooligan.

I have not heard one word on a petition for Apoel to be brought to task over this and their breeding ground of racism.
I have seen more sympathy and action brought to bear by GCs for someone not being able to have access to their property than such physical human violence.

And what do you do? You come back to point the finger at the Turkish army... DT please.

Did Ghandi ever promote violence? Or did he work to stop it by promoting love and tolerance?
He was all about non-violence from wherever it came.

Was Galatasaray bought to task for one of their fans murdering a Leeds fan?

Apoel Ltd as a company both the Chairman and the board have been taking as much action as can be done by a sporting company against any hooligans who choose to hide under the name of Apoel. They've refused to sell season tickets to known culprits and now have instigated a policy whereby no one can by a ticket to watch Apoel without presenting their ID and having the number written on the ticket. That way they can't give the ticket to someone else to get it.

Thats about as much as the team can do, the rest is up to society, the police and the general situation in this occupied country.

I for one despise anyone who is violent against anyone else, I don't discriminate between Tc or Gc as you do. I don't remember you complaining when an Apoel fan was sent to hospital by an omonoia fan so I'm guessing your only concern is when a tc gets involved in any of this.

Apoel has not done enough - just look at the stands on a match day - politics and racism is rife at a sports event. Sorry argument still remains weak particularly the need to deflect rather than address.

Where is your accusations for Trabzonspor where 300 kids where marching round the stadium holding "trnc" flags and teh APOEL fans were pelted in the stands from the beginning to the end of that match.

Are you so racist that you cannot even see your hypocrisy?

[DT.]

And by the way,my grandparents too died in Nicosia where they were taking turns sheltering with one son or daughter or another,heart-broken and waiting to return to their village in the South...But they don't count ,do they? They were TCs...Nobody invited them to come to Cyprus,and Cyprus wasn't their homeland anyway...

Did I say they don't count? Did I say Cyprus isn't their homeland? Have you been drinking today?

[BirKibrisli]

And by the way,my grandparents too died in Nicosia where they were taking turns sheltering with one son or daughter or another,heart-broken and waiting to return to their village in the South...But they don't count ,do they? They were TCs...Nobody invited them to come to Cyprus,and Cyprus wasn't their homeland anyway...

Did I say they don't count? Did I say Cyprus isn't their homeland? Have you been drinking today?

Yes,I have been drinking...
But that is the prevailing opinion amongst the GCs on this forum,isn't it???
The TCs are Ottoman remnants,they were not invited here,they belong in Turkey,Cyprus is not their homeland etc etc...

Never mind ,DT...I better go to bed now...It is getting pretty late,and I am getting pretty drunk...hick...hick...