Cyprus-Forum.com

[Oracle]

Here's a 17th Century rug from Smyrna ...




Again, one can make out the Byzantine crosses.

[denizaksulu]

Thank you deniz. We are aware the enslaved Greeks and Armenians working under the whip of the Otto-Turks had to hide the real nature of their designs!

On a similar note:

~

LESSONS IN THE SPECIFIC

In 1785 one J. Griffiths, an English doctor, made the inland journey from Smyrna to Konia. He was generally literate in textile matters. For example, at "Allah-Sheer" (old Philadelphia) he commented: "Coarse cottons and carpets are here manufactured; the art of dyeing is said to be better understood than in most parts of the neighbouring country." (21) Four days later, at an unnamed village apparently two stages before Konia, he made a minor but quite significant observation: "In this village we found several hundred Greeks, who pursued an advantageous commerce in wollen cloths, and carpets of the Turkish manufacture; which, when finished, are forwarded to Koniah, and from thence to Constantinople and Persia." (22)

It is not difficult to arrive at a fair interpretation of this statement. The shipment to Konia can be taken as so, the further shipment less so, as Griffiths followed the product to Konia, but not further. (A more normal export route from Konia would have been Smyrna.) There is no question about the inhabitants being Greek, and their being weavers, not merely traders, for the comment "when finished" puts manufacture in the village. While the phrase "of the Turkish manufacture" is less than design specific, chances seem very good that a Turkish type rug is being referred to. The moral of this bit of reality is quite simple: speculation about either origins or design progression within a carpet type which ignores the possibility of ethnic diversity among weavers can only be deficient. Those who use materials and/or design change to locate or to date rugs make the unstated assumption that the only variables are place and time. In many rug weaving areas the omission of an ethnic variable is untenable.
http://rob.com/wrights

Yes Oracle, I am pretty aware of the peoples of Anatolia pre-1923.

The rugs = Made in Turkey. I do not dispute that FACT. Like the cotton mills in Bradford; Made in England, not made by the Indian/Pakistanis.

Ahem ...... cough ..... cough ...... splutter ...... cough ...... (must give up smoking) ...... cough ....

Bradford >>>>> Wool cough cough cough Co .... Co Cot C...Cotton M ....Mm ....Man .......Manchester. Cough .... Cough .... (need a glass of water.)

Okay okay, it was a throwaway comment. Please dont choke.

[denizaksulu]

Here's a 17th Century rug from Smyrna ...




Again, one can make out the Byzantine crosses.

Very interesting. Kaleidoscopic in effect.

[denizaksulu]

Thank you deniz. We are aware the enslaved Greeks and Armenians working under the whip of the Otto-Turks had to hide the real nature of their designs!

On a similar note:

~

LESSONS IN THE SPECIFIC

In 1785 one J. Griffiths, an English doctor, made the inland journey from Smyrna to Konia. He was generally literate in textile matters. For example, at "Allah-Sheer" (old Philadelphia) he commented: "Coarse cottons and carpets are here manufactured; the art of dyeing is said to be better understood than in most parts of the neighbouring country." (21) Four days later, at an unnamed village apparently two stages before Konia, he made a minor but quite significant observation: "In this village we found several hundred Greeks, who pursued an advantageous commerce in wollen cloths, and carpets of the Turkish manufacture; which, when finished, are forwarded to Koniah, and from thence to Constantinople and Persia." (22)

It is not difficult to arrive at a fair interpretation of this statement. The shipment to Konia can be taken as so, the further shipment less so, as Griffiths followed the product to Konia, but not further. (A more normal export route from Konia would have been Smyrna.) There is no question about the inhabitants being Greek, and their being weavers, not merely traders, for the comment "when finished" puts manufacture in the village. While the phrase "of the Turkish manufacture" is less than design specific, chances seem very good that a Turkish type rug is being referred to. The moral of this bit of reality is quite simple: speculation about either origins or design progression within a carpet type which ignores the possibility of ethnic diversity among weavers can only be deficient. Those who use materials and/or design change to locate or to date rugs make the unstated assumption that the only variables are place and time. In many rug weaving areas the omission of an ethnic variable is untenable.
http://rob.com/wrights

Yes Oracle, I am pretty aware of the peoples of Anatolia pre-1923.

The rugs = Made in Turkey. I do not dispute that FACT. Like the cotton mills in Bradford; Made in England, not made by the Indian/Pakistanis.

Ahem ...... cough ..... cough ...... splutter ...... cough ...... (must give up smoking) ...... cough ....

Bradford >>>>> Wool cough cough cough Co .... Co Cot C...Cotton M ....Mm ....Man .......Manchester. Cough .... Cough .... (need a glass of water.)

Substitute 'Irish' for the Ind/Pakistanis.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/ITbradford.htm

[bill cobbett]

Thank you deniz. We are aware the enslaved Greeks and Armenians working under the whip of the Otto-Turks had to hide the real nature of their designs!

On a similar note:

~

LESSONS IN THE SPECIFIC

In 1785 one J. Griffiths, an English doctor, made the inland journey from Smyrna to Konia. He was generally literate in textile matters. For example, at "Allah-Sheer" (old Philadelphia) he commented: "Coarse cottons and carpets are here manufactured; the art of dyeing is said to be better understood than in most parts of the neighbouring country." (21) Four days later, at an unnamed village apparently two stages before Konia, he made a minor but quite significant observation: "In this village we found several hundred Greeks, who pursued an advantageous commerce in wollen cloths, and carpets of the Turkish manufacture; which, when finished, are forwarded to Koniah, and from thence to Constantinople and Persia." (22)

It is not difficult to arrive at a fair interpretation of this statement. The shipment to Konia can be taken as so, the further shipment less so, as Griffiths followed the product to Konia, but not further. (A more normal export route from Konia would have been Smyrna.) There is no question about the inhabitants being Greek, and their being weavers, not merely traders, for the comment "when finished" puts manufacture in the village. While the phrase "of the Turkish manufacture" is less than design specific, chances seem very good that a Turkish type rug is being referred to. The moral of this bit of reality is quite simple: speculation about either origins or design progression within a carpet type which ignores the possibility of ethnic diversity among weavers can only be deficient. Those who use materials and/or design change to locate or to date rugs make the unstated assumption that the only variables are place and time. In many rug weaving areas the omission of an ethnic variable is untenable.
http://rob.com/wrights

Yes Oracle, I am pretty aware of the peoples of Anatolia pre-1923.

The rugs = Made in Turkey. I do not dispute that FACT. Like the cotton mills in Bradford; Made in England, not made by the Indian/Pakistanis.

Ahem ...... cough ..... cough ...... splutter ...... cough ...... (must give up smoking) ...... cough ....

Bradford >>>>> Wool cough cough cough Co .... Co Cot C...Cotton M ....Mm ....Man .......Manchester. Cough .... Cough .... (need a glass of water.)

Okay okay, it was a throwaway comment. Please dont choke.

Cough ....choke .... 'Ere Watchit Yerro.... cough ...... .... more coughing and spluttering of incredulity ..... Have a very nerdish interest in 19thC English History, particularly Industrial, Transport and Agitation; idle, inaccurate, albeit throwaway, comments will not pass unnoticed. It's a duty.

........

You may all carry on about your very interesting Turkish or Greek Rags.