Cyprus-Forum.com

[Vuryek]

[

Vuryek..When I joined this forum I spent the first 3 years talking about all this you are talking about,and pointing out the part TCs paid in our little conflict...I was hoping this would lead to our GC compatriots to examine their own "brainwashing" and come up with some objective truths about the situation...With a few notable exceptions,my efforts only served to harden the average GC attitude,and strengthen their belief that the whole thing was a result of Turkey's expansionist policies...That he TCs simply and sheepishly did what they were told by the TMT, to advance the cause of Taksim...Very few GCs on this forum would admit that Enosis with Greece dream of theirs was the germinal cause of all our troubles...So ,don't make the mistake that I did...While talking about the faults of the TC side include some from the other side too...Otherwise you are only reinforcing their brainwashing which goes along the "expansionist " line I talked about earlier...They are also totally convinced that the TCs were treated perfectly well during the 63-74 period...Their isolation in enclaves were totally self-inflicted...If you are also a victim of extremist GC propaganda and brainwashing,and believe in the same "GC myths" tell us so we know how seriously to take you in the future...My patience with one-sided and myobic view of Cyprob is running very thin...

I see your point and I agree with you on major points. Micro perspective always has same problems; it can be diluted easily with the delusion of other myths. The myths in Cyprus never been one sided. The exactly same censorship and propaganda mechanism has been in process in South too. There are still lots of GC who never heard/believe any violence attempt of EOKA B, and has no idea about what happened in Murataga and Sandallar.

However, it is not possible to create a wide explanation with a macro perspective which includes every cause – effect relationships, especially in such subtopics with a sudden entrance to subject.

And personally I do not find it right to express the old violence, as a common act of each community. The “national heroes” and ”movement” of both side were corrupted with many disgusting behaviour and thoughts, which is not known by the communities. We have right to blame someone with “not knowing the reality and not searching for the reality”. But I don’t believe that anyone has right to personalize and accuse someone with the acts of so-called national heroes, who were controlled by foreign countries. (for both communities)

[Tim Drayton]

[

Vuryek..When I joined this forum I spent the first 3 years talking about all this you are talking about,and pointing out the part TCs paid in our little conflict...I was hoping this would lead to our GC compatriots to examine their own "brainwashing" and come up with some objective truths about the situation...With a few notable exceptions,my efforts only served to harden the average GC attitude,and strengthen their belief that the whole thing was a result of Turkey's expansionist policies...That he TCs simply and sheepishly did what they were told by the TMT, to advance the cause of Taksim...Very few GCs on this forum would admit that Enosis with Greece dream of theirs was the germinal cause of all our troubles...So ,don't make the mistake that I did...While talking about the faults of the TC side include some from the other side too...Otherwise you are only reinforcing their brainwashing which goes along the "expansionist " line I talked about earlier...They are also totally convinced that the TCs were treated perfectly well during the 63-74 period...Their isolation in enclaves were totally self-inflicted...If you are also a victim of extremist GC propaganda and brainwashing,and believe in the same "GC myths" tell us so we know how seriously to take you in the future...My patience with one-sided and myobic view of Cyprob is running very thin...

I see your point and I agree with you on major points. Micro perspective always has same problems; it can be diluted easily with the delusion of other myths. The myths in Cyprus never been one sided. The exactly same censorship and propaganda mechanism has been in process in South too. There are still lots of GC who never heard/believe any violence attempt of EOKA B, and has no idea about what happened in Murataga and Sandallar.

However, it is not possible to create a wide explanation with a macro perspective which includes every cause – effect relationships, especially in such subtopics with a sudden entrance to subject.

And personally I do not find it right to express the old violence, as a common act of each community. The “national heroes” and ”movement” of both side were corrupted with many disgusting behaviour and thoughts, which is not known by the communities. We have right to blame someone with “not knowing the reality and not searching for the reality”. But I don’t believe that anyone has right to personalize and accuse someone with the acts of so-called national heroes, who were controlled by foreign countries. (for both communities)

But isn't it also a great Cypriot myth to say that foreigners were 100% to blame, when Cypriots themselves must share some of the blame for what happened.

[Vuryek]

[

Vuryek..When I joined this forum I spent the first 3 years talking about all this you are talking about,and pointing out the part TCs paid in our little conflict...I was hoping this would lead to our GC compatriots to examine their own "brainwashing" and come up with some objective truths about the situation...With a few notable exceptions,my efforts only served to harden the average GC attitude,and strengthen their belief that the whole thing was a result of Turkey's expansionist policies...That he TCs simply and sheepishly did what they were told by the TMT, to advance the cause of Taksim...Very few GCs on this forum would admit that Enosis with Greece dream of theirs was the germinal cause of all our troubles...So ,don't make the mistake that I did...While talking about the faults of the TC side include some from the other side too...Otherwise you are only reinforcing their brainwashing which goes along the "expansionist " line I talked about earlier...They are also totally convinced that the TCs were treated perfectly well during the 63-74 period...Their isolation in enclaves were totally self-inflicted...If you are also a victim of extremist GC propaganda and brainwashing,and believe in the same "GC myths" tell us so we know how seriously to take you in the future...My patience with one-sided and myobic view of Cyprob is running very thin...

I see your point and I agree with you on major points. Micro perspective always has same problems; it can be diluted easily with the delusion of other myths. The myths in Cyprus never been one sided. The exactly same censorship and propaganda mechanism has been in process in South too. There are still lots of GC who never heard/believe any violence attempt of EOKA B, and has no idea about what happened in Murataga and Sandallar.

However, it is not possible to create a wide explanation with a macro perspective which includes every cause – effect relationships, especially in such subtopics with a sudden entrance to subject.

And personally I do not find it right to express the old violence, as a common act of each community. The “national heroes” and ”movement” of both side were corrupted with many disgusting behaviour and thoughts, which is not known by the communities. We have right to blame someone with “not knowing the reality and not searching for the reality”. But I don’t believe that anyone has right to personalize and accuse someone with the acts of so-called national heroes, who were controlled by foreign countries. (for both communities)

But isn't it also a great Cypriot myth to say that foreigners were 100% to blame, when Cypriots themselves must share some of the blame for what happened.

Yes you are right. thats a good example for "it is very difficult the express everthing even when you mention every detail"... by the way I never want to mean like that....

[Paphitis]

The Cyprus issue is a difficult one to solve. Talat deserves some more time to try and solve it with Christofias. I think that if the TC's vote for Eroglu they will be making the same mistake as the GC's back in 2003 when they voted for a staunch rejectionist (Papadopoulos).

Erdogan, Papandreou, Christofias and Talat can give their best shot for solution. The equation will be destroyed with Eroglu and the nationalists that support him. Viewpoint, I can also give you a more simple answer. All the anti solution GC's are rooting for Eroglu right now and the Archbishop has made his spoken with the man upstairs for him and this is not a joke.

Do you have anybody else in mind. Please reveal your thoughts.


really?

There is no evidence which shows that either TC leadership or presidency has any authority on any internal or external subject of Northern district. Talat is a peon who can promise no more than Denktash on any manner. Neither anyone who becomes candidate for that position can be anything else than a puppet of Turkey.

However, the image of puppet has an importance for outside world, therefore the puppeteer has to seem like "hardworking" in order to make audience believe that there is a "democratic" platform in occupied area and a "election" process goes on. On the other hand with a overpopulated settlers problem it is impossible to have a real election process which represents real Cypriots.

There are only 2 realistic strategy at this point. 1- To support Eroglu in order to change the image of pupeteer and ideas of audience from positive to negative. 2- Not to vote and reject whole Banana Republic, which shows to EU that Cypriot people does not want either the puppets or the puppeteer with an indirect way, which will create more politic problems to them. I choose 2nd.

At least you should be happy, cause by taking choice 2, you will facilitate choice 1 which is the choice of bash patriots and GO church in the south.

You realy need to reconsider the effect Erouglu will have on the negotiations.

I think it is clearly stated above that Eroglu has no effect on negotiations, neither Talat does. If there was a difference somebody has to explain "why the same process has continued where Denktash left, dring Talat period?"

Talat, who suppose to be opposite of Denktash, had the chance, but acted as Denktash... maybe worse than him. Which means, that position measn nothing and there will be no difference for Eroglu

As if there had been any difference on GC political stance since Makarios... all GC negotiators have defended the same basic principles which has been called red lines of their communitie's "national cause" ... so why should Talat or any other TC negotiator stop defending the "national cause" of their own community?

The only difference between Talat and Eroglu is their style of speech... and of course intellectual capacity...

Eroğlu is a pure dunderhead that his words not only hurt GCs but TC leftists too...

What do you expect from an illiterate right winger...

PS: Does Anastasiadis still throw ashtrays in house of representatives?

I am 100 % with u on this one INSANCIGIM........... let them to speak gardash.... Ağzı olan gonuşur.

So since you agree with him and as you said that "all others speaks nonsense since they have mouths" (as I understand halil doesnt use same organ to talk) could you two please tell me which "national causes" they are negotiating about? casuses of pimps? casinos? settlers? soldiers? drug sellers? Turkey? all or none?

All Turkish Cypriots who live in the north. Pimps and Casinos are a direct consequence of 35 years of embargo imposed by the roc. Most of the soldiers will go. Anybody acquiring a legitemate TRNC passport is a TC. To say other wise borders on fascism.

Really? So you can give KuKuTaCa passport to who ever you want and make him/her a Cypriot immediately? and if I do not agree with it I will be a faschist?...

So you dont hesitate to count every single illegal-embarrassing out of humanity crimes and criminals, which brought by Turkey and that puppet politicians, as yourself in order to support a political personality?

Bravo... I am glad to count you as one of them, but not one of us...

May I ask how old you are? Were you there when Makarios was doing his damnest to kick us out of our homes?

Its not about me its about the reality so do not try to personalize the subject. Second, I am fed up with all 64-74 mythologiees, especially official fairy tales which allways told denktash like peoples so I recommend you to not come up with that kind of idiocities. I hate people who tries to argue about history with only so called knowledge which is obtained from the television and primary school.

The problem of NC community is lots of seniles who knows nothing and only knows the most cliche demagogy "Were you there when Makarios was doing his damnest to kick us out of our homes?" but cannot seperate EOKA A from B and Makarios. Youngsters are already a overidiotic copy of them who supports some puppet as a leader without knowing the reality.

By the way, Makarios never tried to harm TC's and sometimes he supported the self determination rights of TC. Do yourself a favour read some books.

So Makarios never tried to harm the TCs and supported their right to self determination??? This is news to me too...It is true that he rejected the Greek Colonels suggestion that the TCs could be exterminated in one night...But he was also the spiritual leader of the EOKA,and carries the blood of all those TCs killed between 1955 and 1967 on his hands....

I would be very interested if you can provide some proof in any form to back up your claim that Makarios supported the self determmination rights of the TCs,not sometimes but just even for once...

And would you care to explain what in your opinion are the "64-74 mythologies" you are so sick of???

EOKA was disbanded in 1959 you imbecile!

EOKA B was formed in 1971 by Grivas, and Makarios was never part of that! In fact, EOKA B was formed to destabilize the Makarios Government.

Very neat for you,you poor excuse for a human being!
Your pea brain is incapable of contributing on this forum and understanding the complexity of Cyprob...You are a first class moron who should not be allowed to pollute the Cyberspace with utter crap...Now run along and pick the nits off your extended family!

I contribute nothing but facts.

It is a fact that EOKA was disbanded in 1959. It is a fact that EOKA B was formed by Grivas when he returned to Cyprus in 1971, in order to destabilize the Makarios Government on behalf og the Greek Junta in Athens.

It is a fact, that TMT positions were attacked by the CNG and the RoC Police at Kophinou for blockading the Nicosia to Limassol highway.

It is a fact that the TMT was attacked at Kokkina by the CNG for arms smuggling. It is a fact, that the TMT was not attacked for the hell of it, and that its actions were provocative to the RoC.

It is a fact that EOKA played absolutely no role whatsoever in the intercommunal violence.

Now buzz off, and quit propagating propaganda.

People are here to learn the facts, and not be led down the garden path.

[halil]

ATTACKS AGAINST TALAT YOUTH CENTRE AND UBP BUILDING

President Mehmet Ali Talat’s youth centre in Lefkosa and the National Unity Party’s Taskinkoy building have been the target of undemocratic acts. An explosion occurred at Talat’s youth centre in the Dereboyu Street around 2am yesterday when unknown persons threw a plastic bottle filled with foil paper and possibly with some hydrochloric acid.

There were no reports of damage or injuries.

President Talat and the Talat Youth Platform have condemned the attack.

Separately, the glasses of the UBP’s Taskinkoy building were broken by unidentified persons last night.

A UBP poster hanged on a citizen’s house in Kyrenia was also the target of another attack.

The police are continuing their investigation into the incidents.

[BirKibrisli]

The Cyprus issue is a difficult one to solve. Talat deserves some more time to try and solve it with Christofias. I think that if the TC's vote for Eroglu they will be making the same mistake as the GC's back in 2003 when they voted for a staunch rejectionist (Papadopoulos).

Erdogan, Papandreou, Christofias and Talat can give their best shot for solution. The equation will be destroyed with Eroglu and the nationalists that support him. Viewpoint, I can also give you a more simple answer. All the anti solution GC's are rooting for Eroglu right now and the Archbishop has made his spoken with the man upstairs for him and this is not a joke.

Do you have anybody else in mind. Please reveal your thoughts.


really?

There is no evidence which shows that either TC leadership or presidency has any authority on any internal or external subject of Northern district. Talat is a peon who can promise no more than Denktash on any manner. Neither anyone who becomes candidate for that position can be anything else than a puppet of Turkey.

However, the image of puppet has an importance for outside world, therefore the puppeteer has to seem like "hardworking" in order to make audience believe that there is a "democratic" platform in occupied area and a "election" process goes on. On the other hand with a overpopulated settlers problem it is impossible to have a real election process which represents real Cypriots.

There are only 2 realistic strategy at this point. 1- To support Eroglu in order to change the image of pupeteer and ideas of audience from positive to negative. 2- Not to vote and reject whole Banana Republic, which shows to EU that Cypriot people does not want either the puppets or the puppeteer with an indirect way, which will create more politic problems to them. I choose 2nd.

At least you should be happy, cause by taking choice 2, you will facilitate choice 1 which is the choice of bash patriots and GO church in the south.

You realy need to reconsider the effect Erouglu will have on the negotiations.

I think it is clearly stated above that Eroglu has no effect on negotiations, neither Talat does. If there was a difference somebody has to explain "why the same process has continued where Denktash left, dring Talat period?"

Talat, who suppose to be opposite of Denktash, had the chance, but acted as Denktash... maybe worse than him. Which means, that position measn nothing and there will be no difference for Eroglu

As if there had been any difference on GC political stance since Makarios... all GC negotiators have defended the same basic principles which has been called red lines of their communitie's "national cause" ... so why should Talat or any other TC negotiator stop defending the "national cause" of their own community?

The only difference between Talat and Eroglu is their style of speech... and of course intellectual capacity...

Eroğlu is a pure dunderhead that his words not only hurt GCs but TC leftists too...

What do you expect from an illiterate right winger...

PS: Does Anastasiadis still throw ashtrays in house of representatives?

I am 100 % with u on this one INSANCIGIM........... let them to speak gardash.... Ağzı olan gonuşur.

So since you agree with him and as you said that "all others speaks nonsense since they have mouths" (as I understand halil doesnt use same organ to talk) could you two please tell me which "national causes" they are negotiating about? casuses of pimps? casinos? settlers? soldiers? drug sellers? Turkey? all or none?

All Turkish Cypriots who live in the north. Pimps and Casinos are a direct consequence of 35 years of embargo imposed by the roc. Most of the soldiers will go. Anybody acquiring a legitemate TRNC passport is a TC. To say other wise borders on fascism.

Really? So you can give KuKuTaCa passport to who ever you want and make him/her a Cypriot immediately? and if I do not agree with it I will be a faschist?...

So you dont hesitate to count every single illegal-embarrassing out of humanity crimes and criminals, which brought by Turkey and that puppet politicians, as yourself in order to support a political personality?

Bravo... I am glad to count you as one of them, but not one of us...

May I ask how old you are? Were you there when Makarios was doing his damnest to kick us out of our homes?

Its not about me its about the reality so do not try to personalize the subject. Second, I am fed up with all 64-74 mythologiees, especially official fairy tales which allways told denktash like peoples so I recommend you to not come up with that kind of idiocities. I hate people who tries to argue about history with only so called knowledge which is obtained from the television and primary school.

The problem of NC community is lots of seniles who knows nothing and only knows the most cliche demagogy "Were you there when Makarios was doing his damnest to kick us out of our homes?" but cannot seperate EOKA A from B and Makarios. Youngsters are already a overidiotic copy of them who supports some puppet as a leader without knowing the reality.

By the way, Makarios never tried to harm TC's and sometimes he supported the self determination rights of TC. Do yourself a favour read some books.

So Makarios never tried to harm the TCs and supported their right to self determination??? This is news to me too...It is true that he rejected the Greek Colonels suggestion that the TCs could be exterminated in one night...But he was also the spiritual leader of the EOKA,and carries the blood of all those TCs killed between 1955 and 1967 on his hands....

I would be very interested if you can provide some proof in any form to back up your claim that Makarios supported the self determmination rights of the TCs,not sometimes but just even for once...

And would you care to explain what in your opinion are the "64-74 mythologies" you are so sick of???

EOKA was disbanded in 1959 you imbecile!

EOKA B was formed in 1971 by Grivas, and Makarios was never part of that! In fact, EOKA B was formed to destabilize the Makarios Government.

Very neat for you,you poor excuse for a human being!
Your pea brain is incapable of contributing on this forum and understanding the complexity of Cyprob...You are a first class moron who should not be allowed to pollute the Cyberspace with utter crap...Now run along and pick the nits off your extended family!

I contribute nothing but facts.

It is a fact that EOKA was disbanded in 1959. It is a fact that EOKA B was formed by Grivas when he returned to Cyprus in 1971, in order to destabilize the Makarios Government on behalf og the Greek Junta in Athens.

It is a fact, that TMT positions were attacked by the CNG and the RoC Police at Kophinou for blockading the Nicosia to Limassol highway.

It is a fact that the TMT was attacked at Kokkina by the CNG for arms smuggling. It is a fact, that the TMT was not attacked for the hell of it, and that its actions were provocative to the RoC.

It is a fact that EOKA played absolutely no role whatsoever in the intercommunal violence.

Now buzz off, and quit propagating propaganda.

People are here to learn the facts, and not be led down the garden path.

I know more facts about the Cyprus problem than you can ever imagine...
Go back and read some of my earlier posts and you will see where I am coming from...If you believe that an Underground movement some can describe as "terrorist" can be turned off like a tap,you are thicker than I imagined...The EOKA might've been officially disbanded,but their leaders never stopped arming and training certain members for readiness for future operations...Who do you think attacked us end of December 63/early 64 in Nicoisa and Paphos and other enclaves??? The NGC was not in existence then so who were these braves who were trying to wipe all TCs off the map??? GOC SAINTS???? I am sick lof hearing your one-sided blind prejudiced version of the events you know nothing about...Spend 3 years talking about the GC faults in this conflict then you might have some credibility to talk about the TC ones...Till then stay out of my sight,don't breath around my posts,or else I will make mince meat out of you...You will be the biggest laughing stock in this forum...Take that as a friendly warning...

[Paphitis]

There was no underground movement after 1959. There was no EOKA as Grivas himself was the Commander of the entire CNG under Makarios. This continued until Grivas was exiled from Cyprus. He then returned in 1971 to create EOKA B.

It was the CNG and RoC Police Force that were having small isolated clashes with TMT strongholds at Kophinou and Kokkina. Grivas himself was the commander, and Makarios sanctioned the attacks after some considerable delay and hesitation. In the end, there was no other choice!

[BirKibrisli]

There was no underground movement after 1959. There was no EOKA as Grivas himself was the Commander of the entire CNG under Makarios. This continued until Grivas was exiled from Cyprus. He then returned in 1971 to create EOKA B.

It was the CNG and RoC Police Force that were having small isolated clashes with TMT strongholds at Kophinou and Kokkina. Grivas himself was the commander, and Makarios sanctioned the attacks after some considerable delay and hesitation. In the end, there was no other choice!

Are you intellectually challenged???Can you comprehend what you read??? I asked you specifically Who do you think were attacking the TC enclaves including the one I was sheltering in as a 12 year old in 1963/64?????
They were paramilitaries without uniforms...Who were they??Your priests???EOKA was only disbanded on paper...Like the 1960 agreement Makarios signed and had no intension of applying...It was essentially a smokescreen to fool the world that they were now law obiding citizens...In reality EOKA cells kept operating under the overall political command of one Yorgadjis...Have you heard of him???? Now stop talking crap and find some objectivity and realism...Without those you will be a subject of ridicule from this point onwards...

[Paphitis]

There was no underground movement after 1959. There was no EOKA as Grivas himself was the Commander of the entire CNG under Makarios. This continued until Grivas was exiled from Cyprus. He then returned in 1971 to create EOKA B.

It was the CNG and RoC Police Force that were having small isolated clashes with TMT strongholds at Kophinou and Kokkina. Grivas himself was the commander, and Makarios sanctioned the attacks after some considerable delay and hesitation. In the end, there was no other choice!

Are you intellectually challenged???Can you comprehend what you read??? I asked you specifically Who do you think were attacking the TC enclaves including the one I was sheltering in as a 12 year old in 1963/64?????
They were paramilitaries without uniforms...Who were they??Your priests???EOKA was only disbanded on paper...Like the 1960 agreement Makarios signed and had no intension of applying...It was essentially a smokescreen to fool the world that they were now law obiding citizens...In reality EOKA cells kept operating under the overall political command of one Yorgadjis...Have you heard of him???? Now stop talking crap and find some objectivity and realism...Without those you will be a subject of ridicule from this point onwards...

I already answered you! Are you stupid?

It was the Cyprus National Guard and the Cyprus Police that had attacked TMT strongholds at Kophinou (and you know full well why they attacked) and at Kokkina (and you know full well why TMT was attacked here as well).

Who the individuals were is of no consequence. The CNG's commanders were Makarios and Grivas!

Makarios had the final say in everything!

[BirKibrisli]

There was no underground movement after 1959. There was no EOKA as Grivas himself was the Commander of the entire CNG under Makarios. This continued until Grivas was exiled from Cyprus. He then returned in 1971 to create EOKA B.

It was the CNG and RoC Police Force that were having small isolated clashes with TMT strongholds at Kophinou and Kokkina. Grivas himself was the commander, and Makarios sanctioned the attacks after some considerable delay and hesitation. In the end, there was no other choice!

Are you intellectually challenged???Can you comprehend what you read??? I asked you specifically Who do you think were attacking the TC enclaves including the one I was sheltering in as a 12 year old in 1963/64?????
They were paramilitaries without uniforms...Who were they??Your priests???EOKA was only disbanded on paper...Like the 1960 agreement Makarios signed and had no intension of applying...It was essentially a smokescreen to fool the world that they were now law obiding citizens...In reality EOKA cells kept operating under the overall political command of one Yorgadjis...Have you heard of him???? Now stop talking crap and find some objectivity and realism...Without those you will be a subject of ridicule from this point onwards...

I already answered you! Are you stupid?

It was the Cyprus National Guard and the Cyprus Police that had attacked TMT strongholds at Kophinou (and you know full well why they attacked) and at Kokkina (and you know full well why TMT was attacked here as well).

Who the individuals were is of no consequence. The CNG's commanders were Makarios and Grivas!

Makarios had the final say in everything!

I give up on you...You are totally a lost case...Get back under the rock you've climbed out of and let other people with half a brain to carry on your propaganda...You must be an embarassment for even the most fanatic GC on this forum...