Cyprus-Forum.com

[DT.]

EOKA-B emerged twice, in 1963 and 1974,

Grivas returned clandestinely to Cyprus sometime in the late summer or early fall of 1971 and set up a new guerilla organization, the national Organizaiton of Cypriot Fighters (Ethniki Organosis Kyprion Agonistm B--EOKA B).

hmm, no. There's no contradictions here.

[Tim Drayton]

Excuse my ignorance on this Vuryek, but this is the first time I hear of Dr. Burhan Nalbantoglu. Who was he?

If Niyazi Kızılyürek is to be believed, he was one of the three people who attended the meeting on 15 November 1957 at which the TMT was founded.

[halil]

EOKA-B emerged twice, in 1963 and 1974,

Grivas returned clandestinely to Cyprus sometime in the late summer or early fall of 1971 and set up a new guerilla organization, the national Organizaiton of Cypriot Fighters (Ethniki Organosis Kyprion Agonistm B--EOKA B).

hmm, no. There's no contradictions here.

DT,
too many hmmmmssss......... too many stories ....... at the end we have been all fucked.

topic was about TRNC elections but lets and see various stories about EOKA and TMT......



Our Haunted Country

http://www.makarios.eu/cgibin/hweb?-A=726&-V=english

Over 200 Greek Cypriots have been accused of treason and executed by EOKA. At least 1000 families bear the stain of treason without substantiation, without a shred of evidence. Those who have tried to obtain information from the fighters' organisations faced an impenetrable wall: "They don't know, they won't reply." Those who by themselves investigated the motives of the killings usually come to other conclusions, which have nothing at all to do with treason. In August 1958 EOKA indiscriminately killed Turkish Cypriots and TMT Greeks. In total, 115 Cypriots (60 Greeks and 55 Turks, tit for tat) were killed in bicommunal clashes. The victims' only "sin" was their ethnicity.



A struggle was fought as it was fought and it came to what it came to. Fifty years have passed since. Did these lives not deserve a serious investigation? Unfortunately not. After the end of the struggle, attention turned to plunder, material and political. The sharing of the pie was the chief motive behind a new cycle of violence. Referring to newspapers from the early 1960's, one is shocked by the number of murders. The police could hardly keep up with gathering bodies off the streets. Georkadjis killed, as did Sampson, the underworld and the "protectors" of society from the underworld. The Turks did about the same. TMT killed and terrorised the Turks, as the remnants of EOKA did the Greeks.



Then the new drama of 1963 came. Over 500 Turkish Cypriots were murdered, most by Georkadjis' Organisation and by Sampson. They either disappeared from police holding cells, prisons and hospitals, or they were abducted from their villages and were never seen again. Fifty Greek Cypriots also disappeared at the time, and have been missing since. Many other Greek Cypriots died in the battles. A total of 53 people lost their lives - completely pointlessly - in the Turkish air raids on Tylliria.



There followed EOKA B and the terror that accompanied it, in the name of Enosis. If they had achieved Enosis, today they too would have been hailed as heroes. Things went more wrong than they could have reckoned, and we came to the shocking tragedy of 1974: another 2,500 dead and missing. The remains of some are still unburied on the Pentadactylos Mountains. Thousands of families were destroyed as a consequence of the insanity that called itself patriotism. The EOKA Betas, instead of going to Kyrenia to face the Turkish Army, attacked the Turkish Cypriot civilians in the South. They wiped out all the men of Tochni village, and the whole population of two villages, Maratha and Aloa. TMT did the same, exterminating Greek Cypriot civilians in Palekythro, Assia and elsewhere.



Half a century since this insanity started, our society will not tolerate even a simple reference to the deeper causes of the disaster. AKEL General Secretary Demetris Christofias made a correct remark at the most appropriate time: at the annual commemoration of the murder of Misiaoulis and Kavazoglou, he stated that the murderers, whether they were Turkish or Greek, had the same ideology. Everyone jumped on him, baying for his blood. And he began to apologise and claim he had been misunderstood! This is what happens when one deals with the parastate and washes out criminals, in return for some appointments and financial nepotism.



Our county is haunted, persecuted by the curse of the unvindicated souls. So many human beings were lost totally pointlessly, without even elementary justice having been done. We hide the truths under a veil of lies, hyperbole and myth. Fifty years later the debate did begin, but everyone wants it closed. Some "intellectuals" are also worried because we are scratching at wounds and disturbing unity. The wounds are there and they are still open, though we refuse to see them. And what unity are they thinking of? Unity in the soul trade? Unity in the

revolutionary hero and resistance fighter industry? Each one of us today claims a medal of struggle, resistance and patriotism. This, unfortunately, is our relationship with History. Hanging a fake medal at our throats!



A year ago today, we were called to decide for or against the Annan plan. We took a position in favour of it. It wasn't the best plan. In many places it was problematic and irritatingly unfair. But it had a big plus: a solution within the E.U. would have compelled us to draw a line in our relationship with the past, would have "forced" us, Greeks and Turks, to co-operate and cohabitate on this island. To lay the souls of our dead to rest, and chase the ghosts from our island.



But those who started these affairs half a century ago told us it wouldn't work. They know best. They haven't finished yet. They are still trading in souls, still minting medals, still giving oaths that they will not stray, still selling the people 1950's patriotism. With a people so immature, a people conserving and glorifying the policies that have destroyed it, it's a thousand times better that the solution plan did not pass. Until things change, the status quo will be "the best solution for all of us"...



Makarios Droushiotis - Politis Newspaper


25/04/2005

[BirKibrisli]

The Cyprus issue is a difficult one to solve. Talat deserves some more time to try and solve it with Christofias. I think that if the TC's vote for Eroglu they will be making the same mistake as the GC's back in 2003 when they voted for a staunch rejectionist (Papadopoulos).

Erdogan, Papandreou, Christofias and Talat can give their best shot for solution. The equation will be destroyed with Eroglu and the nationalists that support him. Viewpoint, I can also give you a more simple answer. All the anti solution GC's are rooting for Eroglu right now and the Archbishop has made his spoken with the man upstairs for him and this is not a joke.

Do you have anybody else in mind. Please reveal your thoughts.


really?

There is no evidence which shows that either TC leadership or presidency has any authority on any internal or external subject of Northern district. Talat is a peon who can promise no more than Denktash on any manner. Neither anyone who becomes candidate for that position can be anything else than a puppet of Turkey.

However, the image of puppet has an importance for outside world, therefore the puppeteer has to seem like "hardworking" in order to make audience believe that there is a "democratic" platform in occupied area and a "election" process goes on. On the other hand with a overpopulated settlers problem it is impossible to have a real election process which represents real Cypriots.

There are only 2 realistic strategy at this point. 1- To support Eroglu in order to change the image of pupeteer and ideas of audience from positive to negative. 2- Not to vote and reject whole Banana Republic, which shows to EU that Cypriot people does not want either the puppets or the puppeteer with an indirect way, which will create more politic problems to them. I choose 2nd.

At least you should be happy, cause by taking choice 2, you will facilitate choice 1 which is the choice of bash patriots and GO church in the south.

You realy need to reconsider the effect Erouglu will have on the negotiations.

I think it is clearly stated above that Eroglu has no effect on negotiations, neither Talat does. If there was a difference somebody has to explain "why the same process has continued where Denktash left, dring Talat period?"

Talat, who suppose to be opposite of Denktash, had the chance, but acted as Denktash... maybe worse than him. Which means, that position measn nothing and there will be no difference for Eroglu

As if there had been any difference on GC political stance since Makarios... all GC negotiators have defended the same basic principles which has been called red lines of their communitie's "national cause" ... so why should Talat or any other TC negotiator stop defending the "national cause" of their own community?

The only difference between Talat and Eroglu is their style of speech... and of course intellectual capacity...

Eroğlu is a pure dunderhead that his words not only hurt GCs but TC leftists too...

What do you expect from an illiterate right winger...

PS: Does Anastasiadis still throw ashtrays in house of representatives?

I am 100 % with u on this one INSANCIGIM........... let them to speak gardash.... Ağzı olan gonuşur.

So since you agree with him and as you said that "all others speaks nonsense since they have mouths" (as I understand halil doesnt use same organ to talk) could you two please tell me which "national causes" they are negotiating about? casuses of pimps? casinos? settlers? soldiers? drug sellers? Turkey? all or none?

All Turkish Cypriots who live in the north. Pimps and Casinos are a direct consequence of 35 years of embargo imposed by the roc. Most of the soldiers will go. Anybody acquiring a legitemate TRNC passport is a TC. To say other wise borders on fascism.

Really? So you can give KuKuTaCa passport to who ever you want and make him/her a Cypriot immediately? and if I do not agree with it I will be a faschist?...

So you dont hesitate to count every single illegal-embarrassing out of humanity crimes and criminals, which brought by Turkey and that puppet politicians, as yourself in order to support a political personality?

Bravo... I am glad to count you as one of them, but not one of us...

May I ask how old you are? Were you there when Makarios was doing his damnest to kick us out of our homes?

Its not about me its about the reality so do not try to personalize the subject. Second, I am fed up with all 64-74 mythologiees, especially official fairy tales which allways told denktash like peoples so I recommend you to not come up with that kind of idiocities. I hate people who tries to argue about history with only so called knowledge which is obtained from the television and primary school.

The problem of NC community is lots of seniles who knows nothing and only knows the most cliche demagogy "Were you there when Makarios was doing his damnest to kick us out of our homes?" but cannot seperate EOKA A from B and Makarios. Youngsters are already a overidiotic copy of them who supports some puppet as a leader without knowing the reality.

By the way, Makarios never tried to harm TC's and sometimes he supported the self determination rights of TC. Do yourself a favour read some books.

So Makarios never tried to harm the TCs and supported their right to self determination??? This is news to me too...It is true that he rejected the Greek Colonels suggestion that the TCs could be exterminated in one night...But he was also the spiritual leader of the EOKA,and carries the blood of all those TCs killed between 1955 and 1967 on his hands....

I would be very interested if you can provide some proof in any form to back up your claim that Makarios supported the self determmination rights of the TCs,not sometimes but just even for once...

And would you care to explain what in your opinion are the "64-74 mythologies" you are so sick of???

EOKA was disbanded in 1959 you imbecile!

EOKA B was formed in 1971 by Grivas, and Makarios was never part of that! In fact, EOKA B was formed to destabilize the Makarios Government.

Very neat for you,you poor excuse for a human being!
Your pea brain is incapable of contributing on this forum and understanding the complexity of Cyprob...You are a first class moron who should not be allowed to pollute the Cyberspace with utter crap...Now run along and pick the nits off your extended family!

[DT.]

The Cyprus issue is a difficult one to solve. Talat deserves some more time to try and solve it with Christofias. I think that if the TC's vote for Eroglu they will be making the same mistake as the GC's back in 2003 when they voted for a staunch rejectionist (Papadopoulos).

Erdogan, Papandreou, Christofias and Talat can give their best shot for solution. The equation will be destroyed with Eroglu and the nationalists that support him. Viewpoint, I can also give you a more simple answer. All the anti solution GC's are rooting for Eroglu right now and the Archbishop has made his spoken with the man upstairs for him and this is not a joke.

Do you have anybody else in mind. Please reveal your thoughts.


really?

There is no evidence which shows that either TC leadership or presidency has any authority on any internal or external subject of Northern district. Talat is a peon who can promise no more than Denktash on any manner. Neither anyone who becomes candidate for that position can be anything else than a puppet of Turkey.

However, the image of puppet has an importance for outside world, therefore the puppeteer has to seem like "hardworking" in order to make audience believe that there is a "democratic" platform in occupied area and a "election" process goes on. On the other hand with a overpopulated settlers problem it is impossible to have a real election process which represents real Cypriots.

There are only 2 realistic strategy at this point. 1- To support Eroglu in order to change the image of pupeteer and ideas of audience from positive to negative. 2- Not to vote and reject whole Banana Republic, which shows to EU that Cypriot people does not want either the puppets or the puppeteer with an indirect way, which will create more politic problems to them. I choose 2nd.

At least you should be happy, cause by taking choice 2, you will facilitate choice 1 which is the choice of bash patriots and GO church in the south.

You realy need to reconsider the effect Erouglu will have on the negotiations.

I think it is clearly stated above that Eroglu has no effect on negotiations, neither Talat does. If there was a difference somebody has to explain "why the same process has continued where Denktash left, dring Talat period?"

Talat, who suppose to be opposite of Denktash, had the chance, but acted as Denktash... maybe worse than him. Which means, that position measn nothing and there will be no difference for Eroglu

As if there had been any difference on GC political stance since Makarios... all GC negotiators have defended the same basic principles which has been called red lines of their communitie's "national cause" ... so why should Talat or any other TC negotiator stop defending the "national cause" of their own community?

The only difference between Talat and Eroglu is their style of speech... and of course intellectual capacity...

Eroğlu is a pure dunderhead that his words not only hurt GCs but TC leftists too...

What do you expect from an illiterate right winger...

PS: Does Anastasiadis still throw ashtrays in house of representatives?

I am 100 % with u on this one INSANCIGIM........... let them to speak gardash.... Ağzı olan gonuşur.

So since you agree with him and as you said that "all others speaks nonsense since they have mouths" (as I understand halil doesnt use same organ to talk) could you two please tell me which "national causes" they are negotiating about? casuses of pimps? casinos? settlers? soldiers? drug sellers? Turkey? all or none?

All Turkish Cypriots who live in the north. Pimps and Casinos are a direct consequence of 35 years of embargo imposed by the roc. Most of the soldiers will go. Anybody acquiring a legitemate TRNC passport is a TC. To say other wise borders on fascism.

Really? So you can give KuKuTaCa passport to who ever you want and make him/her a Cypriot immediately? and if I do not agree with it I will be a faschist?...

So you dont hesitate to count every single illegal-embarrassing out of humanity crimes and criminals, which brought by Turkey and that puppet politicians, as yourself in order to support a political personality?

Bravo... I am glad to count you as one of them, but not one of us...

May I ask how old you are? Were you there when Makarios was doing his damnest to kick us out of our homes?

Its not about me its about the reality so do not try to personalize the subject. Second, I am fed up with all 64-74 mythologiees, especially official fairy tales which allways told denktash like peoples so I recommend you to not come up with that kind of idiocities. I hate people who tries to argue about history with only so called knowledge which is obtained from the television and primary school.

The problem of NC community is lots of seniles who knows nothing and only knows the most cliche demagogy "Were you there when Makarios was doing his damnest to kick us out of our homes?" but cannot seperate EOKA A from B and Makarios. Youngsters are already a overidiotic copy of them who supports some puppet as a leader without knowing the reality.

By the way, Makarios never tried to harm TC's and sometimes he supported the self determination rights of TC. Do yourself a favour read some books.

So Makarios never tried to harm the TCs and supported their right to self determination??? This is news to me too...It is true that he rejected the Greek Colonels suggestion that the TCs could be exterminated in one night...But he was also the spiritual leader of the EOKA,and carries the blood of all those TCs killed between 1955 and 1967 on his hands....

I would be very interested if you can provide some proof in any form to back up your claim that Makarios supported the self determmination rights of the TCs,not sometimes but just even for once...

And would you care to explain what in your opinion are the "64-74 mythologies" you are so sick of???

EOKA was disbanded in 1959 you imbecile!

EOKA B was formed in 1971 by Grivas, and Makarios was never part of that! In fact, EOKA B was formed to destabilize the Makarios Government.

Very neat for you,you poor excuse for a human being!
Your pea brain is incapable of contributing on this forum and understanding the complexity of Cyprob...You are a first class moron who should not be allowed to pollute the Cyberspace with utter crap...Now run along and pick the nits off your extended family!

Miltiades?

[Paphitis]

EOKA (Ethniki Organosis Kyprion Agoniston)
EOKA [Ethniki Organosis Kyprion Agoniston - National Organization of Cypriot Fighters] started a guerrilla campaign against British colonial rule aimed at self-determination and union with Greece (Enosis)on 01 April 1955. The campaign, which started when the first EOKA bombs exploded at 00.30 hours on 1st of April 1955, lasted until 1959 and caused the death of more Greek Cypriot civilians than the total of British killed. It created civil strife and mistrust between the two Cypriot communities. Tension increased in early 1957, when EOKA attacked Turkish police and auxiliaries. EOKA received direct support from Greece in money, arms, organization and propaganda. Greek-speaking Cypriots were awed by EOKA terrorists and subject to bombardment by Athens radio. Under a 1959 compromise settlement known as Zurich-London agreements, Cyprus became an independent Republic in 1960. Since then, April 1 is a national holiday. It was celebrated in memorial services in Churches and gatherings in cities and villages in the free part of Cyprus.

EOKA-B emerged twice, in 1963 and 1974, in collaboration and cooperation with Greece, to attack the Turkish Cypriots, one of the two co-founding partners of the Republic of Cyprus, with the aim of uniting the Island with Greece.

Between 1969 and 1971, several groups embarked on a renewed terrorist campaign for enosis. Grivas returned clandestinely to Cyprus sometime in the late summer or early fall of 1971 and set up a new guerilla organization, the national Organizaiton of Cypriot Fighters (Ethniki Organosis Kyprion Agonistm B--EOKA B). Most members of the terrorist movement held regular jobs in the Greek Cypriot community; half were police officials and members of the National Guard.

There was also considerable evidence of support of EOKA B activities by the Greek junta, whose hostility to Makarios became increasingly apparent during the early 1970s. The junta was believed to be involved in several attempts on the life of President Makarios. In March 1970, Makarios narrowly escaped death when his helicopter was shot down. Makarios walked away from the crash, but his pilot was killed. Former minister of the interior Polykarpos Georkajis, in contact with local right-wing groups and the junta in Athens, was thought to be implicated, and was assassinated shortly afterward. A paramilitary presidential guard loyal to Makarios, called the Tactical Police Reserve, was organized in 1972. Consisting of fewer than 1,000 men, the Tactical Police Reserve succeeded in arresting large numbers of EOKA B guerrillas. In a further attempt to bring subversive forces under control, Makarios dismissed many National Guard and police officers suspected of EOKA B activity.

With the death of Grivas from a heart attack in January 1974, EOKA B came more directly under the control of the military junta in Athens, which, after a change of leadership, was even more hostile to Makarios. The archbishop, however, saw the Greekofficered National Guard as a more serious threat to his government than EOKA B. In a letter to the Greek president in early July, he accused the junta of attempting to subvert the government of Cyprus through the Greek officers of the National Guard, who in turn supported the terrorist activities of EOKA B. Makarion demanded immediate removal of the 650 Greek officers staffing the National Guard and their replacement by 100 instructors who would help reorganize the Greek Cypriot force.

The reply to the Makarios challenge came on 15 July 1974 in the form of a coup d'état led by Greek officers in the National Guard, under orders from Athens. The fierce fighting that broke out resulted in casualties estimated at over 500, but the lightly armed Tactical Police Reserve and irregular pro-Makarios units were no match for the heavily armed National Guardsmen and the EOKA B irregulars. Narrowly escaping capture when the presidential palace was bombarded, Makarios was flown to London from the Sovereyn Base Area at Akrotiri. Former EOKA gunman and convicted murderer Nicos Sampson, notorious for his brutality in the 1950s and 1960s, was proclaimed president. As Makarios had foreseen, but the Greek military leaders did not, Turkey reacted forcibly to the coup by landing a large number of troops on the northern coast of Cyprus. As a result, both the insurrectionary government in Cyprus and the military dictatorship in Greece fell from power.


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... a/eoka.htm

You might want to check your sources, because Grivas formed EOKA B in 1971! End of!

1971
1971 - In 1971, with the support of the Greek junta, he returned to Cyprus to organize EOKA-B, with the explicit aim of effectuating union with Greece. While EOKA was accepted and approved by the majority of the Cypriot and Greek populations as an anticolonialist

http://www.google.com.au/search?q=EOKA+ ... CDYQ5wIwDw

Halil, you have been screwed in the head with too much propaganda!

[Vuryek]

Vuryek, how do you feel that Turkish Cypriots should have responded to Greek Cypriot demands for Enosis in the 1950's. Was this not unacceptable for the Turkish Cypriot community and is this not what drove a wedge between the two communities?

Tim, I believe that an objective consideration of the circumstances of that years with including socio-economic structure and education level, will lead us that the results were so natural. I do not think that it was easy to consider the struggle from every perspective to find the truth in past. Therefore, after the start point (which was British) rest were all chain reaction. Only few people tried to do it with different way such as Dervish Ali Kavazoglu, Hikmet Muzaffer Gürkan... and we know how they all ended up.

However, my problem is with present people. We have opportunity, time and education level to reconsider everything and apologise. We have chance to not to blame each other for what poverty and lack of education had made them to be a tool for British politics without knowing it. EOKA - TMT all of them are the faded parts of a censored history, which we still use against innocent people who are not part of it.

Therefore, I believe that, if we are going to talk about something we have to talk it in detail before judging others and accusing them to be a part of it.

[Vuryek]

You may try Cyprus 1974 - The Greek coup and the Turkish invasion of Makarios Drushotis. Also I would like to add that I agree with Paphitis. Two EOKA organisations are completely different even some people took place in both of them. Same mistake can be seen for TC organisations easily. Formers of Volkan and TMT were not same. Their purposes were completely different. It doesn’t matter if some people were directly transferred from Volkan to TMT. Actually, if we consider their conditions, it is easy to realise that they had to do it. You can try Tremesheli’s Turkish Title “Aya Spiridon’un Canlari”.

The word “Mythologies” can be a bit strong here. It is better to use “Fables” as a kind of fairy tales, which is my opinion. However, the violence was started by us with the order of Dr. Burhan Nalbantoglu and it took a considerable time until the GC’s response. As an illegal part of British forces, we violated GCs life many times until the creation of bi-communal violence. And by the way, that was not an opinion. I never told that what TC’s did and how GC’s responded was right. At the end, it does not matter the sequence of fists and bullets. However if you want to talk about details, you have to mention all... If you mention or remember only a “part”, that can truly make others to classify it as a wide range of names from “fable to myth”

For example, another mythbuster: The Volkan was founded by Ferruh Halluma, and all of the Articles which has been told that written by ”Dr. Kutchuk” were actually written by him.... With the corruption of TC communal resistance, he left everything and went abroad. And after 30 years everybody `knows` that Dr. Kutchuk did everything, which were actually done by him in reality.

Nearly all “official” history is like this and you are asking me that why am I calling them myth... you are right actually. It is not myth, it is religion.

“-Greeks cannot be trusted. They all want to kill Turks,
-Why?
-Because they are Greeks. As a necessity of their metabolism they have to drink Turkish blood, because they have 5 hands, 8 legs and 3 noses. And they killed billions of Turkish people during 1963
-Why?
- Because the wind was from South and the weather was cloudy..”

Excuse my ignorance on this Vuryek, but this is the first time I hear of Dr. Burhan Nalbantoglu. Who was he?

Dr. Burhan Nalbantoglu was one of the less known (censored) leaders of TC movement. He was known with his offensive stand and aggressive ideas of act against GC organisations. The relationship between Dr. Kutchuk and him vere allways controversial since Kutchuk was supporting much softer solutions.

[Paphitis]

The Cyprus issue is a difficult one to solve. Talat deserves some more time to try and solve it with Christofias. I think that if the TC's vote for Eroglu they will be making the same mistake as the GC's back in 2003 when they voted for a staunch rejectionist (Papadopoulos).

Erdogan, Papandreou, Christofias and Talat can give their best shot for solution. The equation will be destroyed with Eroglu and the nationalists that support him. Viewpoint, I can also give you a more simple answer. All the anti solution GC's are rooting for Eroglu right now and the Archbishop has made his spoken with the man upstairs for him and this is not a joke.

Do you have anybody else in mind. Please reveal your thoughts.


really?

There is no evidence which shows that either TC leadership or presidency has any authority on any internal or external subject of Northern district. Talat is a peon who can promise no more than Denktash on any manner. Neither anyone who becomes candidate for that position can be anything else than a puppet of Turkey.

However, the image of puppet has an importance for outside world, therefore the puppeteer has to seem like "hardworking" in order to make audience believe that there is a "democratic" platform in occupied area and a "election" process goes on. On the other hand with a overpopulated settlers problem it is impossible to have a real election process which represents real Cypriots.

There are only 2 realistic strategy at this point. 1- To support Eroglu in order to change the image of pupeteer and ideas of audience from positive to negative. 2- Not to vote and reject whole Banana Republic, which shows to EU that Cypriot people does not want either the puppets or the puppeteer with an indirect way, which will create more politic problems to them. I choose 2nd.

At least you should be happy, cause by taking choice 2, you will facilitate choice 1 which is the choice of bash patriots and GO church in the south.

You realy need to reconsider the effect Erouglu will have on the negotiations.

I think it is clearly stated above that Eroglu has no effect on negotiations, neither Talat does. If there was a difference somebody has to explain "why the same process has continued where Denktash left, dring Talat period?"

Talat, who suppose to be opposite of Denktash, had the chance, but acted as Denktash... maybe worse than him. Which means, that position measn nothing and there will be no difference for Eroglu

As if there had been any difference on GC political stance since Makarios... all GC negotiators have defended the same basic principles which has been called red lines of their communitie's "national cause" ... so why should Talat or any other TC negotiator stop defending the "national cause" of their own community?

The only difference between Talat and Eroglu is their style of speech... and of course intellectual capacity...

Eroğlu is a pure dunderhead that his words not only hurt GCs but TC leftists too...

What do you expect from an illiterate right winger...

PS: Does Anastasiadis still throw ashtrays in house of representatives?

I am 100 % with u on this one INSANCIGIM........... let them to speak gardash.... Ağzı olan gonuşur.

So since you agree with him and as you said that "all others speaks nonsense since they have mouths" (as I understand halil doesnt use same organ to talk) could you two please tell me which "national causes" they are negotiating about? casuses of pimps? casinos? settlers? soldiers? drug sellers? Turkey? all or none?

All Turkish Cypriots who live in the north. Pimps and Casinos are a direct consequence of 35 years of embargo imposed by the roc. Most of the soldiers will go. Anybody acquiring a legitemate TRNC passport is a TC. To say other wise borders on fascism.

Really? So you can give KuKuTaCa passport to who ever you want and make him/her a Cypriot immediately? and if I do not agree with it I will be a faschist?...

So you dont hesitate to count every single illegal-embarrassing out of humanity crimes and criminals, which brought by Turkey and that puppet politicians, as yourself in order to support a political personality?

Bravo... I am glad to count you as one of them, but not one of us...

May I ask how old you are? Were you there when Makarios was doing his damnest to kick us out of our homes?

Its not about me its about the reality so do not try to personalize the subject. Second, I am fed up with all 64-74 mythologiees, especially official fairy tales which allways told denktash like peoples so I recommend you to not come up with that kind of idiocities. I hate people who tries to argue about history with only so called knowledge which is obtained from the television and primary school.

The problem of NC community is lots of seniles who knows nothing and only knows the most cliche demagogy "Were you there when Makarios was doing his damnest to kick us out of our homes?" but cannot seperate EOKA A from B and Makarios. Youngsters are already a overidiotic copy of them who supports some puppet as a leader without knowing the reality.

By the way, Makarios never tried to harm TC's and sometimes he supported the self determination rights of TC. Do yourself a favour read some books.

So Makarios never tried to harm the TCs and supported their right to self determination??? This is news to me too...It is true that he rejected the Greek Colonels suggestion that the TCs could be exterminated in one night...But he was also the spiritual leader of the EOKA,and carries the blood of all those TCs killed between 1955 and 1967 on his hands....

I would be very interested if you can provide some proof in any form to back up your claim that Makarios supported the self determmination rights of the TCs,not sometimes but just even for once...

And would you care to explain what in your opinion are the "64-74 mythologies" you are so sick of???

EOKA was disbanded in 1959 you imbecile!

EOKA B was formed in 1971 by Grivas, and Makarios was never part of that! In fact, EOKA B was formed to destabilize the Makarios Government.

All EOKA members had become members of some other various underground and official organizations after EOKA was disbanded... I can name you at least 5 of them...

On the other hand, don't forget that the leader of both EOKAs was Grivas always with the same ideals in his mind... besides, who knows what percent of EOKA-B consisted from ex-EOKA members... I don't think any right winger EOKA member could dare to stand against merciless Grivas...

... and it doesn't matter whether he fought against Brits, Turks or elected president of the so-called RoC...

Without Grivas and his backers(weapon suppliers) in Greece there would be neither EOKA nor EOKA-B... maybe some riotings similar to 1930...

... so Bafidi, stop hiding yourself behind the so-called disbandment of EOKA and face with the truths...

I think it is you that needs to face the truth. What you are referring to are the official RoC CNG and Police Force which had little choice but to quash the TMT strangleholds at Kophinou since the TMT was using high ground to attack RoC CNG and Police patrols that were passing along the Nicosia - Limassol highway.

And let's not forget TMT arms smuggling through Kokkina.

You honestly believe that the TMT was attacked just for the hell of it? No Insan. Do some reading, and find out the facts!

[BirKibrisli]

The Cyprus issue is a difficult one to solve. Talat deserves some more time to try and solve it with Christofias. I think that if the TC's vote for Eroglu they will be making the same mistake as the GC's back in 2003 when they voted for a staunch rejectionist (Papadopoulos).

Erdogan, Papandreou, Christofias and Talat can give their best shot for solution. The equation will be destroyed with Eroglu and the nationalists that support him. Viewpoint, I can also give you a more simple answer. All the anti solution GC's are rooting for Eroglu right now and the Archbishop has made his spoken with the man upstairs for him and this is not a joke.

Do you have anybody else in mind. Please reveal your thoughts.


really?

There is no evidence which shows that either TC leadership or presidency has any authority on any internal or external subject of Northern district. Talat is a peon who can promise no more than Denktash on any manner. Neither anyone who becomes candidate for that position can be anything else than a puppet of Turkey.

However, the image of puppet has an importance for outside world, therefore the puppeteer has to seem like "hardworking" in order to make audience believe that there is a "democratic" platform in occupied area and a "election" process goes on. On the other hand with a overpopulated settlers problem it is impossible to have a real election process which represents real Cypriots.

There are only 2 realistic strategy at this point. 1- To support Eroglu in order to change the image of pupeteer and ideas of audience from positive to negative. 2- Not to vote and reject whole Banana Republic, which shows to EU that Cypriot people does not want either the puppets or the puppeteer with an indirect way, which will create more politic problems to them. I choose 2nd.

At least you should be happy, cause by taking choice 2, you will facilitate choice 1 which is the choice of bash patriots and GO church in the south.

You realy need to reconsider the effect Erouglu will have on the negotiations.

I think it is clearly stated above that Eroglu has no effect on negotiations, neither Talat does. If there was a difference somebody has to explain "why the same process has continued where Denktash left, dring Talat period?"

Talat, who suppose to be opposite of Denktash, had the chance, but acted as Denktash... maybe worse than him. Which means, that position measn nothing and there will be no difference for Eroglu

As if there had been any difference on GC political stance since Makarios... all GC negotiators have defended the same basic principles which has been called red lines of their communitie's "national cause" ... so why should Talat or any other TC negotiator stop defending the "national cause" of their own community?

The only difference between Talat and Eroglu is their style of speech... and of course intellectual capacity...

Eroğlu is a pure dunderhead that his words not only hurt GCs but TC leftists too...

What do you expect from an illiterate right winger...

PS: Does Anastasiadis still throw ashtrays in house of representatives?

I am 100 % with u on this one INSANCIGIM........... let them to speak gardash.... Ağzı olan gonuşur.

So since you agree with him and as you said that "all others speaks nonsense since they have mouths" (as I understand halil doesnt use same organ to talk) could you two please tell me which "national causes" they are negotiating about? casuses of pimps? casinos? settlers? soldiers? drug sellers? Turkey? all or none?

All Turkish Cypriots who live in the north. Pimps and Casinos are a direct consequence of 35 years of embargo imposed by the roc. Most of the soldiers will go. Anybody acquiring a legitemate TRNC passport is a TC. To say other wise borders on fascism.

Really? So you can give KuKuTaCa passport to who ever you want and make him/her a Cypriot immediately? and if I do not agree with it I will be a faschist?...

So you dont hesitate to count every single illegal-embarrassing out of humanity crimes and criminals, which brought by Turkey and that puppet politicians, as yourself in order to support a political personality?

Bravo... I am glad to count you as one of them, but not one of us...

May I ask how old you are? Were you there when Makarios was doing his damnest to kick us out of our homes?

Its not about me its about the reality so do not try to personalize the subject. Second, I am fed up with all 64-74 mythologiees, especially official fairy tales which allways told denktash like peoples so I recommend you to not come up with that kind of idiocities. I hate people who tries to argue about history with only so called knowledge which is obtained from the television and primary school.

The problem of NC community is lots of seniles who knows nothing and only knows the most cliche demagogy "Were you there when Makarios was doing his damnest to kick us out of our homes?" but cannot seperate EOKA A from B and Makarios. Youngsters are already a overidiotic copy of them who supports some puppet as a leader without knowing the reality.

By the way, Makarios never tried to harm TC's and sometimes he supported the self determination rights of TC. Do yourself a favour read some books.

So Makarios never tried to harm the TCs and supported their right to self determination??? This is news to me too...It is true that he rejected the Greek Colonels suggestion that the TCs could be exterminated in one night...But he was also the spiritual leader of the EOKA,and carries the blood of all those TCs killed between 1955 and 1967 on his hands....

I would be very interested if you can provide some proof in any form to back up your claim that Makarios supported the self determmination rights of the TCs,not sometimes but just even for once...

And would you care to explain what in your opinion are the "64-74 mythologies" you are so sick of???

You may try Cyprus 1974 - The Greek coup and the Turkish invasion of Makarios Drushotis. Also I would like to add that I agree with Paphitis. Two EOKA organisations are completely different even some people took place in both of them. Same mistake can be seen for TC organisations easily. Formers of Volkan and TMT were not same. Their purposes were completely different. It doesn’t matter if some people were directly transferred from Volkan to TMT. Actually, if we consider their conditions, it is easy to realise that they had to do it. You can try Tremesheli’s Turkish Title “Aya Spiridon’un Canlari”.

The word “Mythologies” can be a bit strong here. It is better to use “Fables” as a kind of fairy tales, which is my opinion. However, the violence was started by us with the order of Dr. Burhan Nalbantoglu and it took a considerable time until the GC’s response. As an illegal part of British forces, we violated GCs life many times until the creation of bi-communal violence. And by the way, that was not an opinion. I never told that what TC’s did and how GC’s responded was right. At the end, it does not matter the sequence of fists and bullets. However if you want to talk about details, you have to mention all... If you mention or remember only a “part”, that can truly make others to classify it as a wide range of names from “fable to myth”

For example, another mythbuster: The Volkan was founded by Ferruh Halluma, and all of the Articles which has been told that written by ”Dr. Kutchuk” were actually written by him.... With the corruption of TC communal resistance, he left everything and went abroad. And after 30 years everybody `knows` that Dr. Kutchuk did everything, which were actually done by him in reality.

Nearly all “official” history is like this and you are asking me that why am I calling them myth... you are right actually. It is not myth, it is religion.

“-Greeks cannot be trusted. They all want to kill Turks,
-Why?
-Because they are Greeks. As a necessity of their metabolism they have to drink Turkish blood, because they have 5 hands, 8 legs and 3 noses. And they killed billions of Turkish people during 1963
-Why?
- Because the wind was from South and the weather was cloudy..”

Vuryek..When I joined this forum I spent the first 3 years talking about all this you are talking about,and pointing out the part TCs paid in our little conflict...I was hoping this would lead to our GC compatriots to examine their own "brainwashing" and come up with some objective truths about the situation...With a few notable exceptions,my efforts only served to harden the average GC attitude,and strengthen their belief that the whole thing was a result of Turkey's expansionist policies...That he TCs simply and sheepishly did what they were told by the TMT, to advance the cause of Taksim...Very few GCs on this forum would admit that Enosis with Greece dream of theirs was the germinal cause of all our troubles...So ,don't make the mistake that I did...While talking about the faults of the TC side include some from the other side too...Otherwise you are only reinforcing their brainwashing which goes along the "expansionist " line I talked about earlier...They are also totally convinced that the TCs were treated perfectly well during the 63-74 period...Their isolation in enclaves were totally self-inflicted...If you are also a victim of extremist GC propaganda and brainwashing,and believe in the same "GC myths" tell us so we know how seriously to take you in the future...My patience with one-sided and myobic view of Cyprob is running very thin...