Cyprus-Forum.com

[bill cobbett]

After a little reflection, I will stick with my gut reaction and say this appears to have the makings of an incredibly destructive move. I got the Varosha line, but this line really is going to be a big headache. When you think what must happen for RoC courts to have another EU country seize the assets of Turkey when there is a remedy via the ECHR path established, the agreed framework of BBF etc, it doesn't look so smart in the cold light of day.

For all I know Christofias is lying with what he stated about the case, but I would tend to consider the impact of the case to likely be an own goal as quite feasible.

Just my thoughts, no insinuations about what's right or wrong. I am not a lawyer so perhaps the legal channels will get the decision they want, but as we all know in Cyprus it's not about who's right or wrong (both sides lie), it's whether you can get away with it and at what cost, and if not, at what cost.

Right let me run this past the incredulous, the unconvinced, the disbelievers.....

It needn't have anything to do with the ECHR, unless the plaintiffs are trying to take it there. More likely this is an Orams style case.

There's a New Reality on the Ground, the reality of a new EU legal order which is as real as the Turkish Army. Surprised that some can't see this simple new fact.

(Now the following isn't a list of my wishes or what I would want to see it's the Real Facts..... )

It's got everything to do with the continued operation and jurisdiction of the Courts of the Republic in all areas of the Island and the Free Movement Of Court Judgments, with judgments from a court in a member state of the EU being respected, without question, in all other member states and by the Courts of all the member states.

(and when say all, don't just refer to the CY or GB Courts.... now where would we be pretty sure of coming across an Court and an Impartial Judge with no possibility of bias, apparent or otherwise?)

[YFred]

After a little reflection, I will stick with my gut reaction and say this appears to have the makings of an incredibly destructive move. I got the Varosha line, but this line really is going to be a big headache. When you think what must happen for RoC courts to have another EU country seize the assets of Turkey when there is a remedy via the ECHR path established, the agreed framework of BBF etc, it doesn't look so smart in the cold light of day.

For all I know Christofias is lying with what he stated about the case, but I would tend to consider the impact of the case to likely be an own goal as quite feasible.

Just my thoughts, no insinuations about what's right or wrong. I am not a lawyer so perhaps the legal channels will get the decision they want, but as we all know in Cyprus it's not about who's right or wrong (both sides lie), it's whether you can get away with it and at what cost, and if not, at what cost.

Right let me run this past the incredulous, the unconvinced, the disbelievers.....

It needn't have anything to do with the ECHR, unless the plaintiffs are trying to take it there. More likely this is an Orams style case.

There's a New Reality on the Ground, the reality of a new EU legal order which is as real as the Turkish Army. Surprised that some can't see this simple new fact.

(Now the following isn't a list of my wishes or what I would want to see it's the Real Facts..... )

It's got everything to do with the continued operation and jurisdiction of the Courts of the Republic in all areas of the Island and the Free Movement Of Court Judgments, with judgments from a court in a member state of the EU being respected, without question, in all other member states and by the Courts of all the member states.

(and when say all, don't just refer to the CY or GB Courts.... now where would we be pretty sure of coming across an Court and an Impartial Judge with no possibility of bias, apparent or otherwise?)

Reh Billogui, the difference is that Turkish Army has rifles and bullets and a bayonet at the end of the rifle. Now, no court has that to my knowledge. SO please don't compare the two will you, it makes me nervas jus thinkin abaut it.

Ennasu do gopso je na se gamo billo bolla galon turkullagin.
Aguses.

[Malapapa]

Not everybody in the South seems delighted with this latest development!

From the Cyprus Mail today ..

Regarding the Shacolas Group suing Turkey in a Cyprus court, Christofias said when he heard this “my hair stood on end”.

“I am very afraid we will have another (legal) boomerang,” he said, noting that the poor would not be found in court. “To say the truth, it is the haves and the have-a-lots that make appeals. Unfortunately, at some point we should restrain ourselves a little.”

http://www.cyprus-mail.com/cyprus/presi ... n/20100319

A very statesmanlike response, at this delicate time in the negotiations. And it's very noble of the president to consider the poor.

If and when talks fail, the Cypriot government could make legal aid available to the have-nots, so that they too could take Turkey to court; on the proviso that an equitable percentage of the total rent/compensation awarded through the seizure of Turkey's EU assets is then passed back to the government, to fund future cases of other poor refugees.

The whole process would soon become self-financing, if not leave the government with additional revenue, which can also be spent on the poor.

[DTA]

All that the people of the TRNC needs to do is work toward getting the ROC courts to the system they were designed to maintain by the 1960 constitution (turkish judges as well etc etc). I have been told that the reason that they dont do this is because they do not recognise the ROC... well the rest of the world does and if we are working toward a BBF then the idea of partition is dead so lets call the ROCs bluff, let us take our places in courts the government etc etc as was the agreement in 1960, if the TRNC is an illigal state already then what have we to lose... let us force the GC to chose to ignore the constitution and then challenge that in a higher court as well of the legitimacy of a government that 'ignores its own constitution.


Legal action will lead to legal action and the lawyers are the ones that will be laughing in the end,

[YFred]

All that the people of the TRNC needs to do is work toward getting the ROC courts to the system they were designed to maintain by the 1960 constitution (turkish judges as well etc etc). I have been told that the reason that they dont do this is because they do not recognise the ROC... well the rest of the world does and if we are working toward a BBF then the idea of partition is dead so lets call the ROCs bluff, let us take our places in courts the government etc etc as was the agreement in 1960, if the TRNC is an illigal state already then what have we to lose... let us force the GC to chose to ignore the constitution and then challenge that in a higher court as well of the legitimacy of a government that 'ignores its own constitution.


Legal action will lead to legal action and the lawyers are the ones that will be laughing in the end,

What a good idea. We should also take up the seats in Parliment and Cabinet after holding an election and walk through the GC entrance (front door) as opposed to the TC entrance (the back door).
I second that.

[DTA]

All that the people of the TRNC needs to do is work toward getting the ROC courts to the system they were designed to maintain by the 1960 constitution (turkish judges as well etc etc). I have been told that the reason that they dont do this is because they do not recognise the ROC... well the rest of the world does and if we are working toward a BBF then the idea of partition is dead so lets call the ROCs bluff, let us take our places in courts the government etc etc as was the agreement in 1960, if the TRNC is an illigal state already then what have we to lose... let us force the GC to chose to ignore the constitution and then challenge that in a higher court as well of the legitimacy of a government that 'ignores its own constitution.


Legal action will lead to legal action and the lawyers are the ones that will be laughing in the end,

What a good idea. We should also take up the seats in Parliment and Cabinet after holding an election and walk through the GC entrance (front door) as opposed to the TC entrance (the back door).
I second that.

Good, lets get it in motion, who shall we bring this idea to?

[YFred]

All that the people of the TRNC needs to do is work toward getting the ROC courts to the system they were designed to maintain by the 1960 constitution (turkish judges as well etc etc). I have been told that the reason that they dont do this is because they do not recognise the ROC... well the rest of the world does and if we are working toward a BBF then the idea of partition is dead so lets call the ROCs bluff, let us take our places in courts the government etc etc as was the agreement in 1960, if the TRNC is an illigal state already then what have we to lose... let us force the GC to chose to ignore the constitution and then challenge that in a higher court as well of the legitimacy of a government that 'ignores its own constitution.


Legal action will lead to legal action and the lawyers are the ones that will be laughing in the end,

What a good idea. We should also take up the seats in Parliment and Cabinet after holding an election and walk through the GC entrance (front door) as opposed to the TC entrance (the back door).
I second that.

Good, lets get it in motion, who shall we bring this idea to?

I can make sure Talat get's to read the message, let's construct a letter and I will get it to him.

[DTA]

All that the people of the TRNC needs to do is work toward getting the ROC courts to the system they were designed to maintain by the 1960 constitution (turkish judges as well etc etc). I have been told that the reason that they dont do this is because they do not recognise the ROC... well the rest of the world does and if we are working toward a BBF then the idea of partition is dead so lets call the ROCs bluff, let us take our places in courts the government etc etc as was the agreement in 1960, if the TRNC is an illigal state already then what have we to lose... let us force the GC to chose to ignore the constitution and then challenge that in a higher court as well of the legitimacy of a government that 'ignores its own constitution.


Legal action will lead to legal action and the lawyers are the ones that will be laughing in the end,

What a good idea. We should also take up the seats in Parliment and Cabinet after holding an election and walk through the GC entrance (front door) as opposed to the TC entrance (the back door).
I second that.

Good, lets get it in motion, who shall we bring this idea to?

I can make sure Talat get's to read the message, let's construct a letter and I will get it to him.

If Talat is seen as who is behind this it would be bad PR for the negociations (although if this process is sucessful I imagine it will greatly increase the GC sides willingness to compromise), we need someone else, any ideas?

[Malapapa]

All that the people of the TRNC needs to do is work toward getting the ROC courts to the system they were designed to maintain by the 1960 constitution (turkish judges as well etc etc). I have been told that the reason that they dont do this is because they do not recognise the ROC... well the rest of the world does and if we are working toward a BBF then the idea of partition is dead so lets call the ROCs bluff, let us take our places in courts the government etc etc as was the agreement in 1960, if the TRNC is an illigal state already then what have we to lose... let us force the GC to chose to ignore the constitution and then challenge that in a higher court as well of the legitimacy of a government that 'ignores its own constitution.


Legal action will lead to legal action and the lawyers are the ones that will be laughing in the end,

What a good idea. We should also take up the seats in Parliment and Cabinet after holding an election and walk through the GC entrance (front door) as opposed to the TC entrance (the back door).
I second that.

Good, lets get it in motion, who shall we bring this idea to?

I can make sure Talat get's to read the message, let's construct a letter and I will get it to him.

If Talat is seen as who is behind this it would be bad PR for the negociations (although if this process is sucessful I imagine it will greatly increase the GC sides willingness to compromise), we need someone else, any ideas?

Would that TCs were to reject en masse the might-is-right illegalities established by Turkey through its subordinate regime, condemn the continued occupation of the northern part of their country by a foreign army, and seek to secure their human rights, using legitimate means, in the Republic of Cyprus, and in turn the rights of all Cypriot citizens.

[DTA]

All that the people of the TRNC needs to do is work toward getting the ROC courts to the system they were designed to maintain by the 1960 constitution (turkish judges as well etc etc). I have been told that the reason that they dont do this is because they do not recognise the ROC... well the rest of the world does and if we are working toward a BBF then the idea of partition is dead so lets call the ROCs bluff, let us take our places in courts the government etc etc as was the agreement in 1960, if the TRNC is an illigal state already then what have we to lose... let us force the GC to chose to ignore the constitution and then challenge that in a higher court as well of the legitimacy of a government that 'ignores its own constitution.


Legal action will lead to legal action and the lawyers are the ones that will be laughing in the end,

What a good idea. We should also take up the seats in Parliment and Cabinet after holding an election and walk through the GC entrance (front door) as opposed to the TC entrance (the back door).
I second that.

Good, lets get it in motion, who shall we bring this idea to?

I can make sure Talat get's to read the message, let's construct a letter and I will get it to him.

If Talat is seen as who is behind this it would be bad PR for the negociations (although if this process is sucessful I imagine it will greatly increase the GC sides willingness to compromise), we need someone else, any ideas?

Would that TCs were to reject en masse the might-is-right illegalities established by Turkey through its subordinate regime, condemn the continued occupation of the northern part of their country by a foreign army, and seek to secure their human rights, using legitimate means, in the Republic of Cyprus, and in turn the rights of all Cypriot citizens.

I may be being a little dense (most probably as I have had a couple to drink) but t I dont understand this in relation to my post.

Yfred who can we bring our plan to if not talat?