The Best Cyprus Community

Skip to content


How many TCs lived outside the protection of the enclaves ?

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby Oracle » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:07 am

denizaksulu wrote:
erolz3 wrote:
Oracle wrote: (Not excusing the killing if it was politically motivated, but as B25 pointed out, the TCs who remained outside the enclaves were in more danger from the TMT than from GCs, as UN records confirm).

Yet more lies Oracle.

Yes TMT did kill TC, though far less than EOKA and its subsequent incarnations killed GC, but the simple and plain fact is that for ordinary TC going about their daily lives in this period the biggest threat to their saftey were the GC armed ethnic militas operating at will and in some case direct from and out of the Interior Ministers office. These groups killed more ordinary innocent TC than TMT ever did and by orders of magnitude.


I am still waiting for Oracles claim re: an UN report to the effect that TMT killed more TCs etc. I think she is still searching hard.

I am sorry for your loss Erolz. There were many more like that. I remember the UN helicopters bringing in those murdered villagers almost on a daily basis in 1964. These gangs of murderers were let loose on the TC populace without mercy, most likely supported by Yorgadjis.


I qualified the evaluative statement that TCs were safer with GCs than at the hands of the TMT intent on driving them into enclaves, with the article above, which also has the UN report (Report S/6426 10.6.65).
User avatar
Oracle
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 23507
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:13 am
Location: Anywhere but...

Postby Oracle » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:09 am

erolz3 wrote:
Oracle wrote:Orders of magnitude? Perhaps you can provide some evidence ...


The cases of where politcaly active TC who opposed the views of TMT were killed number 3, the three refered to in you biased report you quote. The number of non politcal innocent TC going about their everyday lives murderd by GC extermist thugs is in the region of 350 in this period. That is two orders of magnitude more TC killed by GC than killed by TMT.


Those were total numbers killed. Within those figures would be the false-flag killings by the TMT.
User avatar
Oracle
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 23507
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:13 am
Location: Anywhere but...

Postby Piratis » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:13 am

This kind of crimes were the reason TMT was formed.

EOKA was formed to fight against the British Imperialists for the freedom of Cyprus from Colonialism. On the other hand TMT was formed to attack the GCs and their aim was partition, something which required ethnic cleansing.

The first time (since Ottoman times) when innocent people in Cyprus were attacked solely based on their ethnicity was on 7th of June 1958 when TCs burned the shops and homes of innocent GCs. This was followed by the massacre of several GCs 5 days later.

Unfortunately some GCs responded in kind, which is exactly what TMT and the foreign imperialists were hoping for. 100s of innocent people from both sides died as a result.

Ready enough to kill Communists, Grivas had given EOKA strict instructions not to attack Turks, whom he had no wish to antagonise, but to target Greek collaborators with the British, above all in the police. Under EOKA pressure, their number rapidly dwindled. To replace them, Harding recruited Turks, and added a Police Mobile Reserve, dipping for the purpose into the lumpen element in the Turkish community, let loose for savagery when the occasion required. In due course, as Holland notes, the whole security machine came to depend on Turkish auxiliaries. The result was to create a gulf between the two communities that had never existed before. It widened still further when Ankara, now fully engaged in remote control of the minority, riposted to EOKA by setting up its own armed organisation on the island, the TNT – soon killing leftists on its own side, to which the British turned a blind eye.


In the event, it was Turkey that took the first practical steps. In June 1958, repeating the operation in Salonica, its intelligence agents set off an explosion in the Turkish Information Office in Nicosia. Once again, a fabricated outrage – no one was actually hurt – was the signal for orchestrated mob violence against Greeks. Security forces stood by as houses were set on fire and people killed, in the first major communal clashes since the Emergency was declared. The upshot, clearly planned in advance, was the eviction of Greeks from Turkish areas in Nicosia and other cities, and the seizure of municipal facilities, to create self-contained Turkish enclaves: piecemeal partition, on the ground. Its organisers could be sure of British complaisance. The day before the rampage – Harding was now out of it – the new governor, Labour’s future Lord Caradon, had assured its leaders that the Turkish community would enjoy ‘a specially favoured and specially protected state’ under future British arrangements. A few months later, the colonial secretary was publicly referring to Cyprus as ‘an offshore Turkish island’.


http://www.lrb.co.uk/v30/n08/perry-ande ... -of-cyprus
User avatar
Piratis
Moderator
Moderator
 
Posts: 12261
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2004 11:08 pm

Postby GreekForumer » Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:55 am

Here is a table for the number of TCs killed or missing.

Sources :
1. http://www.kktc-sehitaileleri.org/
2. http://www.atcanews.org/archive/missing.pdf


Code: Select all
         Ages   Ages    Ages    Ages
         0-10   11-16   17-60   61+   Total
1955      .       .       .      .      .
1956      .       .      13      1     14
1957      .       2       7      .      9
1958      .       3      70     11     84
1959      .       .       1      .      1
1960      .       .       2      .      2
1961      .       .       3      .      3
1962      .       .       3      .      3
1963      8       3     207     13    231
1964      2       3     219     33    257
1965      .       1      25      .     26
1966      .       .      21      .     21
1967      3       4      52      7     66
1968      .       .       6      .      6
1969      .       .       3      .      3
1970      .       .       3      .      3
1971      .       .       7      .      7
1972      .       .       8      .      8
1973      .       .       3      .      3
1974     41      35     419     47    542

TOTAL    54      51    1072    112   1289



I have been advised by an unreliable GC source that around a third of TCs lived outside of the enclaves in the period 1967-1974.

I'm still waiting for an estimate from TC sources.

Did the Red Crescent/Red Cross/UN know how many TCs were in enclaves ?
GreekForumer
Contributor
Contributor
 
Posts: 288
Joined: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:46 am
Location: Australia

Postby Tim Drayton » Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:40 pm

B25 wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:
B25 wrote:
Tim Drayton wrote:Just another anecdotal contribution, second hand at that. I know a Turkish Cypriot who was originally from a village in Larnaca region. Apparently there were only two Turkish Cypriot families in that particular village. When following the ethnic conflict of 1963/4 Turkish Cypriots started to move to the enclaves, the Greek Cypriots in the village implored both families to stay promising that no harm would ever come to them. His family moved and the other family stayed. Guess what? The head of the family that stayed was killed - admittedly on the road from Larnaca to the village, rather than in the village itself. So, not all such stories have happy ends.


By whom was he killed, the TMT??? this would haver been a perfect example to the other TCs, don't you think???

If you have evidence it was the GC side, lets see it, otherwise its all conjecture.


As I said, this is purely anecdotal evidence that was received second hand and passed on as such. Do you have no basic human feeling of compassion that permits you to feel sympathy for a family whose breadwinner was murdered?


Tim, I was not belittling the killing of this man, and I don't condone it. I was merely point out that he coud have easily been killed by his own to make a point. This was in contrast your implication that since he had stay it MUST have been the GCs that killed him. i just questioned you on that front.
Hope that clears that up.


Fair enough. I am just reporting the facts as I heard them, and made no accusations as to who the man's killers were.
User avatar
Tim Drayton
Main Contributor
Main Contributor
 
Posts: 8799
Joined: Sat Jul 21, 2007 1:32 am
Location: Limassol/Lemesos

Postby Acikgoz » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:04 pm

Pipi continues to talk about 1958 - a period prior to the new constitution and independence. We were not enclaved prior to 1963 - stay on point.
Oracle still has not qualified the level of her bias by ignoring the atrocities and the magnitude of EOKA - B. If she continues to ignore that fact then she is obviously unwilling/unable to engage in intelligent debate. Psycopath....
User avatar
Acikgoz
Regular Contributor
Regular Contributor
 
Posts: 1230
Joined: Sat May 16, 2009 6:09 pm
Location: Where all activities are embargoed

Postby denizaksulu » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:04 pm

GreekForumer wrote:Here is a table for the number of TCs killed or missing.

Sources :
1. http://www.kktc-sehitaileleri.org/
2. http://www.atcanews.org/archive/missing.pdf


Code: Select all
         Ages   Ages    Ages    Ages
         0-10   11-16   17-60   61+   Total
1955      .       .       .      .      .
1956      .       .      13      1     14
1957      .       2       7      .      9
1958      .       3      70     11     84
1959      .       .       1      .      1
1960      .       .       2      .      2
1961      .       .       3      .      3
1962      .       .       3      .      3
1963      8       3     207     13    231
1964      2       3     219     33    257
1965      .       1      25      .     26
1966      .       .      21      .     21
1967      3       4      52      7     66
1968      .       .       6      .      6
1969      .       .       3      .      3
1970      .       .       3      .      3
1971      .       .       7      .      7
1972      .       .       8      .      8
1973      .       .       3      .      3
1974     41      35     419     47    542

TOTAL    54      51    1072    112   1289



I have been advised by an unreliable GC source that around a third of TCs lived outside of the enclaves in the period 1967-1974.

I'm still waiting for an estimate from TC sources.

Did the Red Crescent/Red Cross/UN know how many TCs were in enclaves ?



In all cases of murder, one is too many.

Considering the total population of TCs on the, the figure above is a high percentage. We cannot ignore any killings off hand. Its a shame many do not admit to their own killing machines. :evil:

Only idiots would not see the evil which unleashed the events of 1974.

Damn them all.
User avatar
denizaksulu
Forum Addict
Forum Addict
 
Posts: 36077
Joined: Thu May 10, 2007 11:04 am

Postby YFred » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:08 pm

Acikgoz wrote:Pipi continues to talk about 1958 - a period prior to the new constitution and independence. We were not enclaved prior to 1963 - stay on point.
Oracle still has not qualified the level of her bias by ignoring the atrocities and the magnitude of EOKA - B. If she continues to ignore that fact then she is obviously unwilling/unable to engage in intelligent debate. Psycopath....

She actually supports eoka-b which is why she is an active member of eoka-c.
User avatar
YFred
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 12100
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:22 am
Location: Lurucina-Upon-Thames

Postby Oracle » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:13 pm

denizaksulu wrote:
GreekForumer wrote:Here is a table for the number of TCs killed or missing.

Sources :
1. http://www.kktc-sehitaileleri.org/
2. http://www.atcanews.org/archive/missing.pdf


Code: Select all
         Ages   Ages    Ages    Ages
         0-10   11-16   17-60   61+   Total
1955      .       .       .      .      .
1956      .       .      13      1     14
1957      .       2       7      .      9
1958      .       3      70     11     84
1959      .       .       1      .      1
1960      .       .       2      .      2
1961      .       .       3      .      3
1962      .       .       3      .      3
1963      8       3     207     13    231
1964      2       3     219     33    257
1965      .       1      25      .     26
1966      .       .      21      .     21
1967      3       4      52      7     66
1968      .       .       6      .      6
1969      .       .       3      .      3
1970      .       .       3      .      3
1971      .       .       7      .      7
1972      .       .       8      .      8
1973      .       .       3      .      3
1974     41      35     419     47    542

TOTAL    54      51    1072    112   1289



I have been advised by an unreliable GC source that around a third of TCs lived outside of the enclaves in the period 1967-1974.

I'm still waiting for an estimate from TC sources.

Did the Red Crescent/Red Cross/UN know how many TCs were in enclaves ?



In all cases of murder, one is too many.

Considering the total population of TCs on the, the figure above is a high percentage. We cannot ignore any killings off hand. Its a shame many do not admit to their own killing machines. :evil:

Only idiots would not see the evil which unleashed the events of 1974.

Damn them all.


Perhaps the casualty figures reflect how proactive the TCs were in preparing the stage for Turkey's promised taksim plans?

The way things stand today, your guilt is written everywhere!
User avatar
Oracle
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 23507
Joined: Mon Feb 11, 2008 11:13 am
Location: Anywhere but...

Postby YFred » Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:23 pm

Oracle wrote:
denizaksulu wrote:
GreekForumer wrote:Here is a table for the number of TCs killed or missing.

Sources :
1. http://www.kktc-sehitaileleri.org/
2. http://www.atcanews.org/archive/missing.pdf


Code: Select all
         Ages   Ages    Ages    Ages
         0-10   11-16   17-60   61+   Total
1955      .       .       .      .      .
1956      .       .      13      1     14
1957      .       2       7      .      9
1958      .       3      70     11     84
1959      .       .       1      .      1
1960      .       .       2      .      2
1961      .       .       3      .      3
1962      .       .       3      .      3
1963      8       3     207     13    231
1964      2       3     219     33    257
1965      .       1      25      .     26
1966      .       .      21      .     21
1967      3       4      52      7     66
1968      .       .       6      .      6
1969      .       .       3      .      3
1970      .       .       3      .      3
1971      .       .       7      .      7
1972      .       .       8      .      8
1973      .       .       3      .      3
1974     41      35     419     47    542

TOTAL    54      51    1072    112   1289



I have been advised by an unreliable GC source that around a third of TCs lived outside of the enclaves in the period 1967-1974.

I'm still waiting for an estimate from TC sources.

Did the Red Crescent/Red Cross/UN know how many TCs were in enclaves ?



In all cases of murder, one is too many.

Considering the total population of TCs on the, the figure above is a high percentage. We cannot ignore any killings off hand. Its a shame many do not admit to their own killing machines. :evil:

Only idiots would not see the evil which unleashed the events of 1974.

Damn them all.


Perhaps the casualty figures reflect how proactive the TCs were in preparing the stage for Turkey's promised taksim plans?

The way things stand today, your guilt is written everywhere!

How can you say that about people who have been murdered by your thugs. You are one twisted monster. You need help.

Dr Yfred is at you disposal. We can rebuild you using the latest technology and give you super human strengths. :lol: :lol: :lol:
Last edited by YFred on Tue Mar 16, 2010 1:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
YFred
Leading Contributor
Leading Contributor
 
Posts: 12100
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2009 1:22 am
Location: Lurucina-Upon-Thames

PreviousNext

Return to Cyprus Problem

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests