Cyprus-Forum.com

[Piratis]

Piratis, what is so sad is, that you actually believe what you have written.
Any independent history book or notes of the time will tell you that what you have been told is utter lies. I have had this conversation put to me so many times and when the other party (often a British citizen) actually studies real history they are staggered at the truth. A Greek Cypriot History book in school has very few pages for the period 1960 to 1974 yet independent books have many chapters.............I wonder why. As I said before nobody is in denial that Greek Cypriots died in 1974, but as with all other GC's you certainly are in denial (or don't know) about the murderous events of the 60's particularly 1963. I will post no further comment as I know you won't accept the FACTS unless you take an independent view.I too at one time hated everything the North stood for, but managed to study the subject and it opened my eyes along with many others.

I know the history of Cyprus way better than you do my friend.

You keep repeating the same old Turkish propaganda of half truths and lies about the 1963-1974 events.

I know the events of 63, but you apparently have no clue of the events of 58. The inter-communal conflict started in 1958, and not in 1963. It is in 1958 that the TCs committed the first massacre (12 of June) and burned the shops and homes of innocent GCs (7th of June). That is when the inter-communal conflict started, and not in 63.

During the inter-communal conflict which was initiated by the TC several 100s of people from both sides died.

In fact the population distribution between the two communities did not change during that period:

According to the censuses which took place in Cyprus before the factual partition of the island, the Greek Cypriot community amounted to 447,901 (78,2%) in 1960, and to 498,511 (78,9%) in 1973. The Turkish Cypriot community numbered 103,822 (18,1%) people in 1960, and 116 000 (18,4%) in 1973. The total population of Cyprus was 572,707 in 1960 and 631,778 in 1973 (see Appendix 3, Table 1). An average rate of annual growth for both communities between 1960 and 1973 was similar and amounted to 0,8%. In consequence, the ethnic distribution of the population did not change between 1960 and 1974 and the proportion of each community remained stable.

http://assembly.coe.int/Documents/Worki ... OC9799.htm

The other big fat lie which you keep repeating is that "the Turkish Army intervened to stop the killing of Turkish Cypriots". In 1974 no TC was killed until the day that Turkey invaded. Any casualties that the TCs had that year came only after the Turkish army with the help of TCs started to kill GCs by the 1000s.

Nobody denies that the TCs had some casutlies and suffered during the inter-communal conflict and the 1974 war. But the fact is that it is the TCs and Turks who initiated both the inter-communal conflict (7th of June 1958) and the war in 1974 (20th of July) and that during this conflict and war the GCs are the ones who had the most casualties.

[wyoming cowboy]

Give me strength. Why don't you people learn the history of your island.
HOW MANY TIMES, this Cyprus problem did NOT start in 1974. Nobody denies Greek Cypriots were killed in July August 1974. IT WAS A WAR.
YOU instigated a Turkish intervention with Enosis and the Greek Coup.
Read a History book of 1959-1974 (not a GC History text book) or just read the British and world papers of the time. It's all there.

The fact remains, you cannot come up with any credible account of these thousands of Tc being victims of Gc......No UN,EU report that corresponds with your words. There were no intercommunal conflicts on Cyprus from 67-74...Turkey had no valid excuse to invade murder and ethnically cleanse Cyprus. You contradict yourself, fervently, The coup you say would have led to the extermination of the TC, contrarily are you implying that Makarios was protecting the Tc from any harm, and if the Gc were so hell bent on supporting the coupist, why did they vote Makarios into office with a 95 % majority a few years before...How long would the coupist have been in power since they were fighting the coupist throughout the island? Some Tc were in self imposed enclaves, why were there no problems with Tc that were not in these enclaves Paphos,Limassol etc....? This illusion that the Tc's were enclaved is pure propaganda on your behalf

[Sotos]

Mili,
No I would not agree that it is being occupied. I believe Turkey's presence there is a necessity on a humanitarian basis given the experiences and continued pressure of undermining TCs lives by GCs.

I 100% believe that should the Turkish military vacate the island, military means would be utilised by GCs to overrun the north and impose the RoC govt across the whole island. No comprehensive settlement, only a GC dictated outcome. Do French aircraft carriers suggest south Cyprus will be occupied soon if they facilitate in TCs not getting the benefits of oil off the Cyprus shelf? (side note, simply topical given the context of your question).

The UN, EU, TRNC or RoC or whatever body you would like to choose has consistently been partial to the pressure brought to bear upon it. I can assume you are worldly enough and seasoned enough to know that to be a reality. If you disagree then I really wouldn't care for you to present your opinion as I would need to discount your sincerity.

Turkish expansionism is the problem of Cyprus. The Turks are the ones who invaded our island to take our lives and oppress us. They killed at least 30.000 Cypriots so far with their invasions and massacres against us. If Turkey just wanted to protect the Turks in Cyprus then she would just take those Turks back to Turkey instead of invading us again and bringing more Turks in Cyprus. Why is it that Turkey can bring Turks to Cyprus in order to create a problem to our island but they can't just take these Settlers back to Turkey so they can solve the problem they created? The answer is: EXPANSIONISM. If you think that ethnic cleansing is necessity for humanitarian reasons then you will be moved back to Turkey for humanitarian reasons.

[Viewpoint]

cowboy so are the people who actually lived through those times lieing?

[DTA]

Give me strength. Why don't you people learn the history of your island.
HOW MANY TIMES, this Cyprus problem did NOT start in 1974. Nobody denies Greek Cypriots were killed in July August 1974. IT WAS A WAR.
YOU instigated a Turkish intervention with Enosis and the Greek Coup.
Read a History book of 1959-1974 (not a GC History text book) or just read the British and world papers of the time. It's all there.

The fact remains, you cannot come up with any credible account of these thousands of Tc being victims of Gc......No UN,EU report that corresponds with your words. There were no intercommunal conflicts on Cyprus from 67-74...Turkey had no valid excuse to invade murder and ethnically cleanse Cyprus. You contradict yourself, fervently, The coup you say would have led to the extermination of the TC, contrarily are you implying that Makarios was protecting the Tc from any harm, and if the Gc were so hell bent on supporting the coupist, why did they vote Makarios into office with a 95 % majority a few years before...How long would the coupist have been in power since they were fighting the coupist throughout the island? Some Tc were in self imposed enclaves, why were there no problems with Tc that were not in these enclaves Paphos,Limassol etc....? This illusion that the Tc's were enclaved is pure propaganda on your behalf

My dads family are from paphos and yes there was trouble - or are you talking about only 1974?

[Sotos]

HOW MANY TIMES, this Cyprus problem did NOT start in 1974.

It didn't start in 1963 either.

Nobody denies Greek Cypriots were killed in July August 1974. IT WAS A WAR.

And the TCs who were killed were also killed in a war and a conflict. So of course when there is a war and conflict people die ... no surprise there!! But as Piratis said what matters is who started the war and the Turks are the ones who started the conflict in 58 and the war in 74. Nobody would die if they had not started it. And it is the Turks who started everything in 1571. Turkish Expansionism is the problem of Cyprus. The Turkish Expansionism has two wheels. The Turkish army and the Turkish Settlers. They first invade a place with their army killing the native people and then they transfer Turks on the occupied territory.

[wyoming cowboy]

cowboy so are the people who actually lived through those times lieing?

No they arent lying, because in some areas and some Tc villages there were problems, but the illusion that anyone that was a Tc was in danger of being killed is false. The Tc up until the 74 Turkish invasion worked, lived did business with the Gc throughout the island...In my village i saw many Tc working and doing their business. There were Tc schools operating in Kyrenia were there no Un protection or problems...

[wyoming cowboy]

Give me strength. Why don't you people learn the history of your island.
HOW MANY TIMES, this Cyprus problem did NOT start in 1974. Nobody denies Greek Cypriots were killed in July August 1974. IT WAS A WAR.
YOU instigated a Turkish intervention with Enosis and the Greek Coup.
Read a History book of 1959-1974 (not a GC History text book) or just read the British and world papers of the time. It's all there.

The fact remains, you cannot come up with any credible account of these thousands of Tc being victims of Gc......No UN,EU report that corresponds with your words. There were no intercommunal conflicts on Cyprus from 67-74...Turkey had no valid excuse to invade murder and ethnically cleanse Cyprus. You contradict yourself, fervently, The coup you say would have led to the extermination of the TC, contrarily are you implying that Makarios was protecting the Tc from any harm, and if the Gc were so hell bent on supporting the coupist, why did they vote Makarios into office with a 95 % majority a few years before...How long would the coupist have been in power since they were fighting the coupist throughout the island? Some Tc were in self imposed enclaves, why were there no problems with Tc that were not in these enclaves Paphos,Limassol etc....? This illusion that the Tc's were enclaved is pure propaganda on your behalf

No im talking about the period from 67-74....Did your fathers family choose to go into an enclave? My main question is, if Turkey thought that the coupist were going to cause problems withthe Tc, What are they saying about Makarios? Was Makarios safe for the Tc? and if he was, and the only danger to the Republic were the Greek officers in the army who instigated the coup, Why didnt Turkey ever demand they leave Cyprus like Makarios was asking The junta in Greece to remove the officers from Cyprus....

My dads family are from paphos and yes there was trouble - or are you talking about only 1974?

[wyoming cowboy]

No im talking about the period from 67-74....Did your fathers family choose to go into an enclave? My main question is, if Turkey thought that the coupist were going to cause problems withthe Tc, What are they saying about Makarios? Was Makarios safe for the Tc? and if he was, and the only danger to the Republic were the Greek officers in the army who instigated the coup, Why didnt Turkey ever demand they leave Cyprus like Makarios was asking The junta in Greece to remove the officers from Cyprus....

[Acikgoz]

Wyoming you are such a prat - do you really believe people would compromise their standard of living, leave their livelihood and lands for a political mission - you really do not know people, especially Turkish Cypriots. We are not cut from the same cloth on these types of issues.
Yes some TCs lived outside of the enclaves I remember and some GCs were humane - a great aunt of mine was smuggled through a GC checkpoint by her GC neighbours in the boot of a car to escape the militias.
Remember the TCs did not have representation, were embargoed and were not allowed to live as free citizens on their own island was a calamity. Nothing was done to ease their burden caused by GCs.
The fact that you choose to ignore the realities faced by TCs and try to brush over the issues by claiming this was the path they chose is ridiculous and outright ignorant.