Cyprus-Forum.com

[Viewpoint]

Hey Greek forumer, ALL our family was in enclaves after 1963! Not for the oft used excuse of being told by TMT or Turkey nor the oft used argument that we were desiring partition.
We were in enclaves strictly because members of my family (simple farming flok) were KILLED by GCs. We were NOT SAFE in our villages. We were harrassed and put upon.
Screw the lot of you that care not for truths because you are either too young to have experienced it or because you are so brainwashed that you CHOOSE to ignore the realities and the reponsibilities of GC actions as it is justifiable to your warped value system.
This is what humanity is about forgiving and asking for forgiveness, making amends for the wrongs caused and showing remorse. Humanity is not the garbage spewed by this body of yours that has completely closed down its sense of hearing and has substituted it with a double dose of speech.

And here in is the problem we speak but they do not want to listen as they only see what they want to see which is their rights and nothing else.

[GreekForumer]

And here in is the problem we speak but they do not want to listen as they only see what they want to see which is their rights and nothing else.

I am listening VP. Let's start with some facts.

What percentage of all TCs were in enclaves ?

And of those TCs outside of the enclaves, what violence did they experience from 1967 - 1974?

The floor is yours.

[miltiades]

miltiades ? why do you say just the six years before 1974. Sorry I'll answer, your question: very few Turkish Cypriots died in those six years ......happy miltiades ? WHY because they where in enclaves covering 3% of the Ilsland having previously covered and OWNED 30%.. However between 1959 and 1968 thousands died or escaped to the UK, Australia, Canada.
beware miltiades they have returned and/or there children. The turkish Cypriots are not the same as they where when your lot overran them in the 60's.

Just to remind all of the ..facts presented by this woman . Notice she says
: between 1959 and 1968 thousands died "
She has the audacity to ask us to wake up and get the facts , presumably from the same area that she got her thousands killed .
What a Plonker

This person has a point though Miltiades, TCs did not die prior to 1974 which is one of your best selling points only because we were in enclaves and under protection, what have you go to say about this important point?

Plenty !
The "enclaved" in Famagusta were able to come out the walled city and go about their business unhindered.
The T/Cs , just like the G/Cs faced two evils. The extremists . On one hand the TMT -Grey Wolves restricted the movements of the T/Cs since their interests were served best in order to pursue their Taksim goal, on the other hand the T/Cs also faced the G/C fanatics , and the vicious circle carried on.
The difference between a G/C extremist and a T/C extremist is NIL .
Both want to sell their country to a foreign power , as far as being able to prove which set of fanatics was more dangerous and blood thirsty , the answer is a crazed killer is lethal whether he speaks Greek Turkish or any other language.
It is time now to stop this nonsense as to who killed more , forget and move on. I have why not you .

[Viewpoint]

And here in is the problem we speak but they do not want to listen as they only see what they want to see which is their rights and nothing else.

I am listening VP. Let's start with some facts.

What percentage of all TCs were in enclaves ?

And of those TCs outside of the enclaves, what violence did they experience from 1967 - 1974?

The floor is yours.

The majority either lived in TC villages or enclaves the fact of the matter was that these people were discriminated against persecuted and treated differently to Gcs, they were considered second class citizens.

You need to talk to TCs like Açıkgoz who has given you a first hand experience of what went on you can choose to ignore it all you want but it will not go away it happened and its about time you acknowledged otherwise no TC will ever take you seriously.

[Viewpoint]

miltiades ? why do you say just the six years before 1974. Sorry I'll answer, your question: very few Turkish Cypriots died in those six years ......happy miltiades ? WHY because they where in enclaves covering 3% of the Ilsland having previously covered and OWNED 30%.. However between 1959 and 1968 thousands died or escaped to the UK, Australia, Canada.
beware miltiades they have returned and/or there children. The turkish Cypriots are not the same as they where when your lot overran them in the 60's.

Just to remind all of the ..facts presented by this woman . Notice she says
: between 1959 and 1968 thousands died "
She has the audacity to ask us to wake up and get the facts , presumably from the same area that she got her thousands killed .
What a Plonker

This person has a point though Miltiades, TCs did not die prior to 1974 which is one of your best selling points only because we were in enclaves and under protection, what have you go to say about this important point?

Plenty !
The "enclaved" in Famagusta were able to come out the walled city and go about their business unhindered.
The T/Cs , just like the G/Cs faced two evils. The extremists . On one hand the TMT -Grey Wolves restricted the movements of the T/Cs since their interests were served best in order to pursue their Taksim goal, on the other hand the T/Cs also faced the G/C fanatics , and the vicious circle carried on.
The difference between a G/C extremist and a T/C extremist is NIL .
Both want to sell their country to a foreign power , as far as being able to prove which set of fanatics was more dangerous and blood thirsty , the answer is a crazed killer is lethal whether he speaks Greek Turkish or any other language.
It is time now to stop this nonsense as to who killed more , forget and move on. I have why not you .

The TCs will never forget they cannot do you know why?

[Acikgoz]

Mili,
There can be no question in your mind that so much of the argument on this site is derived from a disregard for what had happened before only when it suits.

As a result even the more obviously learned on this site choose to ignore the realities on the ground as to how we got to this mess and what is the optimal solution of how to get out of it.

I go to the Greek side, I bear no ill will, I spend my money and respect people for the individuals they are. I have moved on too. However, see the venom in the postings of GCs on this forum - it is sickening. Look at the majority of arguments put forward, with all the anger at not being able to get property rights, but NOTHING about the RoC blatantly delaying and controlling the courts in a partisan manner.

TCs that have attempted to get their property rights in the south, and I know scores of these people even though I am not a lawyer nor do I have a vast social circle, describe on the whole the initial openness and willing to proceed, then ridiculous, demeaning, timewasting actions that has them saying screw this, will be easier to wait for a solution.
There is no forum/group to assist TCs to get their rights in the South from the North. That hatred and bitterness demonstrated in the South is so muted in the North by comparison (a symptom of the stoking of the hatred by the Church and more fascist elements of the south, compared with the more fatalistic attitude that has remained unchallenged in the North) that the level of slander and willful deceipt shown is offensive to the extreme.

Mili, what was obvious in your comments, by its exclusion, despite trying to appear understanding, was that the conditions TCs were under was terrible. The EMBARGOES on regular goods needed to develop and grow were denied. The access to grants, loans, contracts, representation in govt, sports... etc. etc. were denied. It is again a choice that is made to ignore the actions of GCs as real persecuters of TCs that makes so many GCs on this forum deserve being accused of hypocracy, racism, willful deceipt.

These are realities documented, if human rights for all and not just GCs is the goal then where is the presentation of this information by the likes of Oracle, B25, Bill et. al.

I see these posts by GCs and it just reads yadda yadda yadda more bs, more bs, more bs.

If you want to talk about moving on, then declare Ercan an international airport, stop harassing anyone that wishes to do business with TCs in the NORTH. After the Orams case all I saw, pages upon pages was how the law is fair and just. If hypocracy was not a trait of GCs, then a read of the judgement which describes existing occupants have rights too, would not have prats like Pipi and the rest still pushing the idea of tresspass.

[Get Real!]

Give me strength. Why don't you people learn the history of your island. HOW MANY TIMES, this Cyprus problem did NOT start in 1974.

Correct! The Cyprus problem began in 1570 when the forefathers of the “Turkish Cypriots” came to Cyprus uninvited and murdered 20,000 Cypriots in the first day alone…

Throughout the period of Venetian rule, Ottoman Turks raided and attacked at will. In 1489, the first year of Venetian control, Turks attacked the Karpas Peninsula, pillaging and taking captives to be sold into slavery. In 1539 the Turkish fleet attacked and destroyed Limassol. Fearing the ever-expanding Ottoman Empire, the Venetians had fortified Famagusta, Nicosia, and Kyrenia, but most other cities were easy prey.

In the summer of 1570, the Turks struck again, but this time with a full-scale invasion rather than a raid. About 60,000 troops, including cavalry and artillery, under the command of Lala Mustafa Pasha landed unopposed near Limassol on July 2, 1570, and laid siege to Nicosia. In an orgy of victory on the day that the city fell--September 9, 1570--20,000 Nicosians were put to death, and every church, public building, and palace was looted. Word of the massacre spread, and a few days later Mustafa took Kyrenia without having to fire a shot. Famagusta, however, resisted and put up a heroic defense that lasted from September 1570 until August 1571.

http://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?f ... CID+cy0017)

Nobody denies Greek Cypriots were killed in July August 1974. IT WAS A WAR.

It was a ONE SIDED SLAUGHTER and ETHNIC CLEANSING of indigenous Cypriots from 37% of their territory.

YOU instigated a Turkish intervention with Enosis and the Greek Coup. Read a History book of 1959-1974 (not a GC History text book) or just read the British and world papers of the time. It's all there.

Which "history books" would they be? What's all there?

[Get Real!]

WHY because they where in enclaves covering 3% of the Ilsland having previously covered and OWNED 30%..

Where did you get that rubbish from?

[miltiades]

Acikgoz I shall respond to your long post , before doing so would you indicate that you agree with the international community , UN , the EU etc that the northern part of Cyprus is occupied by Turkey.
In order to answer your question concerning the legality of Ercan , I need to know your views on the realities here ie that some 40 thousand Turkish troops are occupying a part of Cyprus.
Denying the realities , as per international opinion , including the latest findings by the ECHR which clearly defines the northern part of Cyprus as being under Turkish occupation.

[Acikgoz]

Mili,
No I would not agree that it is being occupied. I believe Turkey's presence there is a necessity on a humanitarian basis given the experiences and continued pressure of undermining TCs lives by GCs.

I 100% believe that should the Turkish military vacate the island, military means would be utilised by GCs to overrun the north and impose the RoC govt across the whole island. No comprehensive settlement, only a GC dictated outcome. Do French aircraft carriers suggest south Cyprus will be occupied soon if they facilitate in TCs not getting the benefits of oil off the Cyprus shelf? (side note, simply topical given the context of your question).

The UN, EU, TRNC or RoC or whatever body you would like to choose has consistently been partial to the pressure brought to bear upon it. I can assume you are worldly enough and seasoned enough to know that to be a reality. If you disagree then I really wouldn't care for you to present your opinion as I would need to discount your sincerity.