Cyprus-Forum.com

[kafenes]

Yes, but a closer look reveals the origin of these tools.

Wow, is this the original stanley blade. A bit like our GR not very sharp is it?

Just plain blunt!!

[Oracle]

Yes, but a closer look reveals the origin of these tools.

Wow, is this the original stanley blade. A bit like our GR not very sharp is it?

Examine it closely. Your ancestors never learnt to fashion tools. Instead, you grabbed those made by others as you went straight from Chimp to Turk. Explains your collective missing frontal lobes though.

[Oracle]

More and more archaeological discoveries seem to confirm the speculations about our longevity in this region and how conducive the Mediterranean was for seafarers. Results from genealogical studies will help pinpoint the exact routes most frequented.

What is more interesting is that nothing has been found to disprove this flow and seeding across Europe by very early Greek/Cypriot ancestors.

It's all fitting in nicely with the Grand Greek Unified Theory!

Even madder than usual.

Carrying this to its natural conclusion it is as logical to say that Europe, or even the world, was seeded by early Tanzanian ancestors. It follows therefore that President Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete (Ok, I looked him up) has a claim to Cyprus.

At the time we were speaking of, there were no Greeks, Cypriots, Turks (or Tanzanians). There were just ancestors.

Never mind the "time" under discussion. Even pre-1923 AD there were no "Turks"! So, why don't you go back to your, very recent, autochthonous roots in the plains of Mongolia!

[Beer Belly]

Petralona cave & man discovery



"The first proof of native human presence in Europe was to be found with the discovery of the Archanthropus skull in Chalcidice, Greece in 1960. The skull has been dated to be at least 700,000 years old by two German scientists, anthropologist E. Breitinger and palaeontologist"

The 'Missing Link' explained .... hairy women.

Now I understand.

[repulsewarrior]

...city-states implies self-sustaining political economies. such that there was isolation between each geographically, their energy was at first devoted to expanding their influence on nature. conflict afflicted their relationship with neighbours. and from it came the sense that in Justice there are some things Universal. it is likely that most civilization of people happened, but not in Greek, (at that time), yet because it functioned as a lingua franca these cultures by definition were not as important, some did not survive; much like the disastrous extinctions of our present day, with English: ninety percent of what we know today is written in this language.

Ms.O. you remind me, tekki, there were no Turks as you say, yet Muslims like Christians are new comers here.

...and what are the English. are they not Greeks?

[Oracle]

...city-states implies self-sustaining political economies. such that there was isolation between each geographically, their energy was at first devoted to expanding their influence on nature. conflict afflicted their relationship with neighbours. and from it came the sense that in Justice there are some things Universal. it is likely that most civilization of people happened, but not in Greek, (at that time), yet because it functioned as a lingua franca these cultures by definition were not as important, some did not survive; much like the disastrous extinctions of our present day, with English: ninety percent of what we know today is written in this language.

Ms.O. you remind me, tekki, there were no Turks as you say, yet Muslims like Christians are new comers here.

...and what are the English. are they not Greeks?

It's always a shame (to mankind) when matters of interest in our history/prehistory are sabotaged and shamefully swept under the carpet because they upset the "balance" for political reasons.

The Athenians (of pre-Hellenistic even) always claimed that they were autochthonous. Hence their disdain for the, relatively, newcomer Spartans.

So here, perhaps, there was a very early ethos for construction and progress towards 'civilisation'.

This may be just a tad too much to stomach for those who already envy the more tangible later obvious signs of how much the peoples of this specific region (now disdainfully labelled as "Greek") did undeniably contribute ...

[yialousa1971]

More and more archaeological discoveries seem to confirm the speculations about our longevity in this region and how conducive the Mediterranean was for seafarers. Results from genealogical studies will help pinpoint the exact routes most frequented.

What is more interesting is that nothing has been found to disprove this flow and seeding across Europe by very early Greek/Cypriot ancestors.

It's all fitting in nicely with the Grand Greek Unified Theory!

Even madder than usual.

Carrying this to its natural conclusion it is as logical to say that Europe, or even the world, was seeded by early Tanzanian ancestors. It follows therefore that President Jakaya Mrisho Kikwete (Ok, I looked him up) has a claim to Cyprus.

At the time we were speaking of, there were no Greeks, Cypriots, Turks (or Tanzanians). There were just ancestors.

Bullshit!

[yialousa1971]

INTERVIEW WITH THE PALAEOANTHROPOLOGIST
Dr ARIS POULIANOS (part a)


Question from UHH (Unknown Hellenic History) : Mr Poulianos, which are the latest findings apart from the Petralona archanthropus that prove human originating from the Hellenic land?
Answer: The bone from human shin discovered in the area of Trillia (found in September 97 at a new excavation) and which constitutes perhaps the most important success of my career, since the African theory becomes now permanently overthrown. Archanthropus achieved that too by proving he's not the first African outside Africa as some scientists supported, but the fact that human traces, skeleton parts and tools were found, aging 11 (± 1) million years, not only overthrows the African theory, but also locates in which spot the human first appeared on earth.
Do the current conclusions from your excavations in the area of Trillia indicate the existence of a settlement?
No, it's too early yet to conclude that -of course I have further findings apart from the shin- but even so, they are not sufficient in order for us to speak about a settlement, just for humans living outdoors and possessing tools (which have first been published at the 3rd paneuropean anthropological convention).

The discovery of the Trillia findings was made at a place where a quarry exists. Therefore, there is always a chance that findings were lost.
Many things have been lost (UHH's note : within the mined marble) which have been inside the settlements of the area surrounding Trillia, of Eleochorion and elsewhere. The worst is that a whole head has been found built inside a school's rock, something which the former president of Halkidiki's New Trillia has mentioned to me, a person that is Law School graduate (and when I refer to the 'graduate' title, I do it in order to show that he's more trustworthy than a potentially over-imaginative peasant). It was given to him by two quarry workers, Lambrou and Vogiatzis, that also offered together with it a separate chin bone afterwards. In the 13th volume of 'ANTHROPOS', I mention with details all the names and the relevant situation.


Are there any implications for more findings at the quarry's area?
Of course, there are some kilometers in extent which I would like to see - if there is ever going to be a real Hellenic state, sold in order for the correct excavations to take place and this place to be kept as a monument for the whole humanity.Some people, however, appear to want Africa to play this role primarily for commercial and not ideological reasons, as far I'm concerned, because those who speak about Africa, are at the same time the ones who hate negroes the most...

What is your opinion about the Indoeuropean 'nation' and why, according to you, is it still the predominant theory although new evidence has arisen?
The Indoeuropean theory started from an English doctor in India, which was further processed by the Germans, and due to that the first name of this theory was Indogermanic Homoethny, later to be substituted by the term Indoeuropean Homoethny claiming that an Indoeuropean race existed, something which was particularly supported by Marinatos who was greatly mistaken... that both the blond Scandinavians and the darker-skin Indians spoke Indoeuropean. This identification does not match anthropologically, but there is a common root of the Indoeuropean languages and Sanscritic, with the difference that this homoethny isn't correct, since the most ancient humans of Europe are those who spoke the earliest. As I have proven with the Petralona cavern findings, humans existed on European soil that had language, meaning having developed articulated speech. Archanthropus spoked. As far as I'm concerned the people of Ptolemaida and Perdikka also spoke 3,000,000 years ago, because the tools there are right-handed too. Behold, therefore, the oldest erected humans possessing some primitive civilization. The foremost ancient civilization is the one of Petralona (1,000,000 years old and above) and is a civilization recognized by international conventions (which means we have recognized evidence referring to the civilization of Petralona's archanthropus). Humans scattered in the European continent from the South to the North and not the other way around. What I'm trying to say is that those Indoeuropeanists supporting the Indoeuropean race theory or even a linguistic homoethny, are attempting to prove that our Greek language arrived from the Baltic region and it didn't develop in the Hellenic area.
How old are the most ancient Baltic findings estimated to be?
23,000 to 25,000 B.C. They are Homo Sapiens of course of the latest or upper palaeolithic era, but with our findings it is proven that hundreds of thousands years before humans existed in the Hellenic area. Aside from Trillian, I'm referring now to the last million of years that these humans actually speak. How is it then that they arrived from Baltic, which was covered with ice at that time? That's why I am saying that since they are the most ancient kindred of Europe, the outcast race, Sarakatsanees always spoke, the structure of their language is shepherd-like, it's actually a language under constant move. It's not the language of humans that have been established in a settlement. Even their anthropological characteristics prove that they are the most ancient people in Europe. We must indirectly admit that they also have the most ancient language, because their ancestors always spoke..and spoke only Greek for the last tenths of thousand years..50, 60, 70, perhaps even 100. On the contrary, the Indoeuropean theory only covers the last four thousand years.
But even before the Indoeuropeans, didn't the inhabitants of this country speak for so many thousands of years? Aren't the living Sarakatsanees the proof today?

Perhaps they were waiting for the Indoeuropeans to teach them...
That's why I'm saying that the archanthropus must have been upset and reversed inside the mausoleum where he sleeps with all these things that his descendants invent, among which Greeks also.
With what you already mentioned, you cover to a large extend our following question too, that relates to your opinion concerning the Afrosemitic origins of the Human.
Look, the tools found in Africa date back to 2,500,000 - 3,000,000 years, but even these are much posterior to the 'culture' inherited by the 11,000,000 years old Trillian and the plethora of tools. I have published but a few at the 13th volume of 'ANTHROPOS'. Of course, a newer publication of tenths and hundreds of tools is at hand.
.Which are the latest developments regarding the Petralona cavern and the museum situated there?

I was forced out of it at 18/8/1983. These people had some specific purpose. Local and foreign enemies of Hellas wished to silence me and eradicate my findings. I returned to the cavern and the museum which I built with my own expenses, of my family, 15 years later, owing only to the Hellenic Justice which I'd like to thank. Back at the museum, I discovered several findings missing. Firstly, the right thigh bone from archanthropus was absent, a whole bone proving that a skeleton existed in the cavern (UHH's note : the calculations for the archanthropus height were based on that specific bone), because the opponents were claiming that the cavern was a hole where a hyena resorted and in which it brought the skull by dragging it. They also argued that the skull rolled in with the river (UHH's note : meaning that the cavern wasn't the place of residence for archanthropus). Such a thing does not apply, because we also found skeleton pieces which prove the existence of the whole body. So, that is why I was violently sent away from the cavern and the museum. For them to have a chance to eradicate my findings...
Another great finding that they eliminated among the rest is the 4kgrs of ashes from the most ancient fire ever confirmed on earth which was dated back to more than a million years. I'm ready to restart the excavations, although I lack the financial support.
Doesn't the Hellenic Anthropological Company accept some contribution from the state for the excavations?
No, no. The expenses belong to the Hellenic Anthropological Company. Initially, the Hellenic Organization of Tourism offered me 22,900,000 million drachmas and I constructed the tube leading inside the cavern. The first 100 meters from almost 800 that the visitors transverse inside the cavern are artificially made. These lead to the initial cavern entrance which was later covered -humans abandon the cavern around 580-600 thousand years ago - and there was a need for an artificial passage to be constructed for someone to enter normally this place, where the human had sought shelter in the era of glaciers. Of course, I'll try in future excavations to identify when the human first enters the cave, which is going to show us when the first great frost that forced the archantrhopi to be sheltered in caves for protection began.
Are the cavern and the museum open to the public?
Certainly, they function from 9a.m. until the dusk.
Is there any phone number for the people wishing to visit the cavern and the museum?
Yes, it's 0373 71671 (from inside of Greece).
Aris Poulianos and his work - as it is known - have been either fought or undermined from time to time by officials or semi-officials. Why do you think that this is happening?
Because I do not only upset Hellenic prehistory, but the international one also. With proving the appearance of humans in the Hellenic region, I overthrow the theory of African originating, a theory which is currently valid for all the universities of the world. I have to confess that I was an afrocenterist once myself, but the facts and my excavations made me reject what was old and create my own 'Perestroika'. And this is after all the thing which offends publishing, scientifical, ideological and political interests.
Think about it ….. in Greece lived the most ancient European (a fact recognized by international conventions : the third Paneuropean and the first Panhellenic Anthropologic). Of course, various professors made statements, such as the French Professor Anri De La Bleu, who was also manager of the Human museum, saying in 'Apogeumatini' newspaper in September of '82 that : 'Poulianos is right' and recognizing the age of archanthropus at 800,000 years. When he returned to Paris, he took with him the skull cast of archanthropus at the museum of Natural History (at human Palaeontology section as the place where the cast is exhibited is named) and has '200,000' inscribed as its age!!! This means that the same man, while saying at his interview in Greece 'the most ancient human of Europe, of 800,000 years age', writes now in Paris only '200,000 years'. Why this undervaluation effort after a convention where he had also voted the age?
I know the reason, because, after a while from my eviction from both the cavern and the museum, he had made an application at the ministry of culture to take over the excavations himself !!!!
And you can understand who are the persons that the foreigners use, the French among them, in order to throw Poulianos out of the cavern..
At least you were treated justly in that.
Yes. From the State Council in Novermber '98. Nevertheless, those managing the ministry of culture still pretend to be deaf(!!!) and do not provide us with the right to continue our excavations. While CAC (Central Archaeological Council) was annually renewing our permission for continuation of the excavations each time between 1974 and 1983, we suddenly accept this attack, we are thrown outside, and henceforth each year I apply for the prolonging of excavational permission...and they keep playing deaf. Thus I was forced to resort to the State Council. However, the lawyers of the ministry of culture arrived there (currently under Venizelos ministry) claiming that Poulianos never had a permission. That is, they obviously lie at the same moment when I possess at least 10 renewal permissions signed by CAC and bearing the seal of the ministry of culture.
Therefore, the only pending case is that you haven't been given the permission to continue the excavations..
I'll receive the official permission through the State Council, which cancels the silence. That is, it obliges the ministry of culture to recognize that I was given older permissions, which the ministry of culture silences today.
Now, two ministers sign in order to ban me from the excavations. Tomorrow it might be even the prime minister, but again I'll resort to the State Council and I shall invoke the Hellenic Justice. There is an ongoing daily battle, tremendous expenses, since each of their ministries has directed 30 lawyers against a financially poor company and we battle with teeth and nails to stand up, to pay our lawyers, to fight the state machine. This is a greatly dishonest and unjust thing taking place on behalf of the Hellenic state and against the research of the Hellenic science, because this is one of the few Greek excavations. Usually such excavations are performed by foreign countries : 9 belong to Americans - 3 is the legal limit - 10 belong to French and 20 to English.
We're trying to survive in a jungle both national and international. I hope that my protest is being understood.
I believe that your protest is clear Mr. Poulianos and that the people have obtained an impression from your work and the problems others created and keep on creating to you.
At this point, we'll thank you and we shall wish you that 1999 will bring more revelations that will shed even more light to the real History of the human.


* "ANTHROPOS" : Annual Instrument of the Hellenic Anthropological Company.
The photographs come from the volumes 10 and 13 of 'ANTHROPOS', (Anthropological Assosiation of Greece) publications.

Interview : George Cydonieus
Voice decoding : George Cydonieus - Constantinos Argis
Translation to English : Christos 'Ierax Pleistoanax'
© Unknown Hellenic History 4/1/1998

[yialousa1971]

CONCISE INDEX OF THE GREEK PREHISTORY
BASED ON THE LATEST DISCOVERIES

1.The Man of Halkidiki's Petralona (700.000 B.C.). Apart from the oldest traces of human lit fire in the world, the bone tools and the Man's skeleton mentioned above were also found inside the Petralona cave.

2.Paleolithic settlements at Pineios River of Thessalia (100.000 B.C.). The German archaeological mission at Thessalia discovered Paleolithic tool relics 100,000 years old at the Pineios River bank in 1958. Note that the most ancient Paleolithic tool ever found in Greece is the 'double-faced' stone handaxe of Siatista's Palaiokastron also 100,000 years old [see ..Ιστορία Ελληνικού Έθνους (History of the Hellenic Nation, "Εκδοτική Αθηνών" publications vol.1 page 35]

3.Paleolithic settlements of Epirus Louro (50.000 B.C.). 800 palaeolithic tools and peeled fragments from transformed limestone were found by a scientific team from Cambridge University at the locations of Kokkinopilos and Asprohaliko in Louro's valley near Ioannina city. [see ..Ιστορία Ελληνικού Έθνους (History of the Hellenic Nation, "Εκδοτική Αθηνών" publications Α' page 38]

4.Palaeolithic findings from Alonnisos - proofs for Aegiis. D. Theocharis brought into light (during the period 1969-70) palaeolithic tools, peeled fragments as well as fossilized bones from rhinoceruses, hippopotamuses and other large mammals, found in Alonnisos (ancient Ikos) of Northen Sporades islands. The fact of Hesiod's 'Theogonia' concerning the existance of the Aegiis mainland of the Aegean Mountain : "...ΑΙΓΑΙΟ ΟΡΕΙ ΠΕΠΥΚΑΣΜΕΝΩ ΥΛΗΕΝΤΙ..." [(Theogonia 484) translation : at the Aegean mountain, the one full of vegetation] since flocks and teams of large mammals could survive only in the Aegiis mainland.

5.The Most Ancient Stone Art in Europe - Kokkinopilos (33.000 B.C..). At a red ground layer in the Epirus position of Kokkinopilos the most ancient stone art of Europe and Mediterranean, made from small rock blades of 33,000 B.C., was discovered. [Papadopoulou F.. "Η Εποχή του Λίθου στην Ήπειρο" (The Stone Age in Epirus) , Δωδώνη publications]

6.The Most Ancient Shipping in the world - Frahthi of Argolida (7.000 B.C.). The Frahthi cave hid many surprises to the scientists. There, apart from the most ancient burial of Europe (10,000 B.C.), relics of prehistoric fishery were found and foremost : opsidianus pieces of 7,000 B.C. (Note that the volcanic material of opsidianus exists only in Milos island. Opsidianus of the same age has been found in Halkidiki and Hoirokitia of Cyprus...). This stands as a serious proof that Greeks already were travelling with ease all over the Aegean sea.[Jacobsen T. 17.000 Years of Greek Prehistory , Scientific American, 234 (1976)]

7.Agricultural cultivation in Nea Nicomedia(7.000 B.C.). 2,000 decarbonated wheat seeds lie among the rest findings of N. Nicomedia, proving that these distant ancenstors of ours already knew how to cultivate the ground from the 7th millenium B.C... N.Nicomedia in the Macedonian land together with Hoirokitia of Cyprus constitute the oldest cities with increased settlements structure and organization in the world. During the same age (at the proceramic stage) Knossos, Argissa, Elateia and other cities also prosper.

8.The Sesklo civilazation (5,000 B.C.). The first 'complete' European civilization is birth of Thessalia's land. Sesklo civilization with its acropoles is characterized from its landhills and the beautiful ornamenting - ceramic with linear jewels and stone stamps with the maeandric geometric shapes (at the same age Orhomenos, Nea Makri and a bit later Diminio, Saliagos etc. also prosper).


source : "DAVLOS " magazine
issue 147 (March 1994)

[BOF]

I expect the findings written in 1994 and 1998 have been superceeded by now.....