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Weston's Viewpoint

How can we solve it? (keep it civilized)

Postby RAFAELLA » Sat Jul 23, 2005 12:25 pm

Viewpoint wrote:RAFAELLA would it not have been the golden opportunity to grab hold of offer however half baked you may feel it was. The chance to show the world that what you say is correct and TCs do not control their own destiny without Turkey. If the GC administration have had accepted then as they always argue that they are not responsible for the embargos placed on TRNC then they would not have to do much dont you agree?? secondly the issue of ownership surely GC have never accepted that Evkaf currently owns 95% of Maras/Varosha and even on this forum it has been argued that it can be proven that it was sold to them having documents to prove this would be easy to prove via an independent expert body so whats the problem? if you are confident it belongs to GCs then this arguement of TCs will not stand up.
As for any dispute about whether Maras can be returned, and if Turkey would agree I feel Talat has agreement from Turkey but wants to show I can do this on my own, so if you guys would have accepted negotiations would have started about how it would be returned time frame etc and what you guys need to do in return...surely 50.000 refugess going back and the potential of GCs and TCs working together to rebuild this beautiful place would have been worth this bold and visionary move, but I forgot you have to have leaders that really want to build trust between our communites.


VP, the proposals that were presented by Talat were unacceptable.
Direct trade between occupied areas and EU cannot be achieved as it violates CyR’s sovereign rights, therefore no consessions can be made.
However, the government had a propasal for the joint operation of Famagusta port under the observation of EU and the return of the closed city of Varosha to its lawful owners. This proposal was turned down by Tcs.
The governments proposal was fair, why it was not accepted?

Your administration wants everything and behind every proposal they make their sole aim is to gain political upgrading.

Regarding Famagusta belonging to Efkaf, MicAtCy sometime ago gave details regarding this matter and they clearly show the opposite.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sat Jul 23, 2005 1:40 pm

RAFAELLA
However, the government had a propasal for the joint operation of Famagusta port under the observation of EU and the return of the closed city of Varosha to its lawful owners.

The governments proposal was fair, why it was not accepted?


Fair to whom? GCs not to us, it was totally unaccpetable as Famagusta Port is open and functioning under the TRNC why should we share it and give you Maras/Varosha at the same time??? If you are willing to share all your ports with us under the same conditions would that be OK with you??? then we could open Maras and work toether to rebuild the city and trust between our communities..
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Postby Realist » Sat Jul 23, 2005 2:23 pm

This is the problem, from the way many TC view the situation it's like there are two countries disputing land rights. The fact that the island was one nation seems to have fallen completely out of the equation. With this in mind how can you negotiate reunification when one side doesn't want to reunite.

Lets try to be honest here, the Annan PLan wasn't a plan that reunited an island. All it would have achieved is to further legitimise the partition. That is way the GC side voted it down. The TC voted yes because it ensured that the majority of what was aquired during 1974 would remain firmly within Turkeys control.

Plus for every Weston view you have of the Cyprus situation, there are ten people in similar positions who don't agree with him. If TC choose to ignore the ten and only look at the one who supports their view then at least be honest enough to admit it has nothing to do with seeking a just solution but everything to do with using Turkey's size advantage to gain as much as possible.

I'd rather negotiate with an ambitious expansionist nation who is honest, then an expansionist who takes land and then points the finger at the country he's just taken it from and says "but it's your fault i took it, you made me do it".
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Postby Viewpoint » Sat Jul 23, 2005 3:25 pm

Realist its 2005, not 1960, arent we now talking 2 constinuent states under a federated unbrella as a United Cyprus Republic??? dont states eg USA example have equal rights?????Lets get this clear first

If you are allowed your own ports administered solely by GCs shouldnt TCs also be allowed the same???If we are to administer and utilize your ports together then we can share ours to no problem, is that ok with you???
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Postby magikthrill » Sat Jul 23, 2005 5:25 pm

Viewpoint wrote:dont states eg USA example have equal rights?????Lets get this clear first



Let us get this clear first.

Since when are people like you, whose arguments are based on the redefinition of the human rights charter, have stopped saying "the cyprus problem is unique and cannot be compared with any other country in the world"

and also the states in the USA do not use apartheid systems to segregate their residents based on the language they speak and religion they supposedly practice.
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Postby Viewpoint » Sat Jul 23, 2005 7:53 pm

magikthrill the Cyprus issue will always be unique and needs a solution that will both visionary and unique as we cannot adopt a specific exsisting model without modifications but this does not mean we cannot take certain examples and evaluate if they will work for us or not.
If we are to move along the lines of 2 constituent states then surely what is appropriate for one should also be allowed for the other, if the south have thier own adminstered GC ports then we to should have TC administered ports which in practice we have one which is operational but not allowed to use EU ports, or alternatively we could have 4 ports all over the island administered by both GCs and TCs for joint use.
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Postby MicAtCyp » Sat Jul 23, 2005 10:57 pm

Viewpoint wrote: GCs not to us, it was totally unaccpetable as Famagusta Port is open and functioning under the TRNC why should we share it and give you Maras/Varosha at the same time???


Well if it's open and functioning, then obviously you do not have any problem.Continue like that for ever if you want....
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Postby gabaston » Sat Jul 23, 2005 11:14 pm

Magik

Right first of all, our gripe goes back pre human rights charter ok? they could have written more or less every human right violated by our experiences. These acts were carried out in broad daylight, not by a people, but legitimately by a govt, with the support of the majority of its people, seemingly unseen and misguidedly sanctioned by the world. Makarios then had the nerve to call us trouble makers, and the world believed him.

Whats happened now is by some twist in this plot is that gc vote no and tc vote yes for peace, and the world thinks

“hang on, haven’t the turks been the trouble-makers?…………hhhmmm let me rethink this”

One of our biggest gripes is that we were persecuted by Makarios and the majority of cyprus, and the world thought we were the trouble-makers all this time.


Second I too am of the opinion that the cyprus situation is unique, the nearest I come to is Ulster. That has no guarantor treaty though. If there is somewhere else to refer to id be interested in knowing.


Last aparteid, language religion,

No aparteid here mate –

they all speak the same language in the states. Cept for maybe new Orleans where they speak sort of frenchified baby-baby sweatalk, and maybe Hawaii. Funnily enough guess what other language the Hawaiins talk…..Hawaiin.

Oh yes and I stand correction but I think Spanish is the most common and widely used language of Florida.

Religion.
Please lets leave religion out of it, four more bomb attempts this week in London. It breeds nutcase merchants. Some of ours have such strong faith they believe they go to heaven by killing innocent people. Misused religion. There have been others.
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Postby gabaston » Sun Jul 24, 2005 12:01 am

oi magik

look what's this? dont know what its about though, i havent read it yet.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/ ... ory=653664
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Postby magikthrill » Sun Jul 24, 2005 2:42 pm

gabaston, talk is cheap so ill be brief

gabaston wrote:
Right first of all, our gripe goes back pre human rights charter ok? they could have written more or less every human right violated by our experiences. These acts were carried out in broad daylight, not by a people, but legitimately by a govt, with the support of the majority of its people, seemingly unseen and misguidedly sanctioned by the world. Makarios then had the nerve to call us trouble makers, and the world believed him.


so you are saying that pre-1950s the Greek speaking cypriots were never harmed in broad daylight by the conqeuror/other community?

Second I too am of the opinion that the cyprus situation is unique, the nearest I come to is Ulster. That has no guarantor treaty though. If there is somewhere else to refer to id be interested in knowing.


of course you do . because there is no other country that has had intercommunal bloodshed right? cyprus is the first!

Last aparteid, language religion,

No aparteid here mate –

they all speak the same language in the states.


and that is why i was referring to viewpoints "unified" cyprus theory where residents are not allowed to move to anothre state because they speak a different language and practise a different religion.

i believe that is apartheid, non?
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