Cyprus-Forum.com

[Malapapa]

Oh I can't be bothered ... .

That's OK, tormented one...

We can alway be bothered!

And, that is the difference between you and us!

Difference being I can't be 'bothered' to explain what it all means to thickos like you, whereas, YOU are VERY 'bothered' because this judgement goes so much against all the bull you have been fed over the years about your so called 'rights'. Get it?

I wouldn't pay too much attention to what the good lady says, she is known for her annoying capabilities.

Oh no worries YFred, I'm not Ostrich syndrome comes to mind with these people. They can bury their heads for as long as they like, speculate, swear, in fact come up with any pathetic lame reason or excuse to get themselves out of this mess, but the facts are the facts that over the years they've dug the big hole to chuck the TC's into but unfortunately for them they've tripped over and fell in it themselves and the likes of Erolz, viewpoint, yourself and one or two others are doing a great job at burying them.

And what's your particular interest in seeing a ruthless foreign occupier - with an ignoble history of riding rough-shod over human rights - permanently dismember a Mediterranean island, Solveit? Just for the record.

[Get Real!]

It’s obvious from the laughable number of applications made to the banana IPC (Indigenous Peoples’ Cleansing) that Cypriots aren’t falling for Turkey’s ethnic cleansing option!

It’s back to the old drawing board Turkey…

so you'll be holding out for a solution to the Cyprob then. Sorry to disappoint, but you'll wait a long long time, and you know what? the outcome will be just the same. You are well and truly in the proverbial POO my friends.

As Cypriots we’re going for the Cyprus option… the one no known foreigner has ever survived!

[Viewpoint]

Solveit why dont you want people to get there property back?

You can just apply to the IPC as supported by the ECHR.

[Solveit]

Did I say that I didn't want people to get their properties back? On the contrary, wherever possible I would LOVE to see as many people as possible get their properties back, but in some cases this will not be possible although I have to say I am not sure whether the two communities will ever live side by side in large numbers again.

For the record I do not own a property in Cyprus, but I have some TC friends, have been to the TRNC a number of times, and am interested in the history (albeit oftentimes tragic). Over the past few years i've seen the venom from some on here aimed at TC's. More often than not the TC's on here try to make reasoned arguments whereas the extremist GC's get nasty especially if things don't go their way. I actually feel sorry for ALL cypriots TC AND GC that just want an end to all this and to get on with their lives.

[Jerry]

The main thrust of the ECHR decision is that people living in the north living on GC land should not be made homeless.

"Yet it would be unrealistic to expect that as a result of these cases the Court should, or could, directly order the Turkish Government to ensure that these applicants obtain access to, and full possession of, their properties, irrespective of who is now living there
It cannot agree that the respondent State should be prohibited from taking into account other considerations, in particular the position of third parties. It cannot be within this Court's task in interpreting and applying the provisions of the Convention to impose an unconditional obligation on a Government to embark on the forcible eviction and rehousing of potentially large numbers of men, women and children even with the aim of vindicating the rights of victims of violations of the Convention."

The Court has not bothered to differentiate between occupied or unoccupied land nor has it warned Turkey not to continue exploiting unused GC property following its ruling. Rather like the aborted Annan plan this decision has given Turkey the green light to expand its exploitation of GC property. This simple "omission" by the Court clearly demonstrates its bias and unwillingness/inability to genuinely uphold human rights. It's a bloody scandal but I don't think there is much we can do about it except use the IPC for restitution and exchange but refuse all offers of compensation.

[YFred]

The main thrust of the ECHR decision is that people living in the north living on GC land should not be made homeless.

"Yet it would be unrealistic to expect that as a result of these cases the Court should, or could, directly order the Turkish Government to ensure that these applicants obtain access to, and full possession of, their properties, irrespective of who is now living there
It cannot agree that the respondent State should be prohibited from taking into account other considerations, in particular the position of third parties. It cannot be within this Court's task in interpreting and applying the provisions of the Convention to impose an unconditional obligation on a Government to embark on the forcible eviction and rehousing of potentially large numbers of men, women and children even with the aim of vindicating the rights of victims of violations of the Convention."

The Court has not bothered to differentiate between occupied or unoccupied land nor has it warned Turkey not to continue exploiting unused GC property following its ruling. Rather like the aborted Annan plan this decision has given Turkey the green light to expand its exploitation of GC property. This simple "omission" by the Court clearly demonstrates its bias and unwillingness/inability to genuinely uphold human rights. It's a bloody scandal but I don't think there is much we can do about it except use the IPC for restitution and exchange but refuse all offers of compensation.

If you do that, GCs are courting with disaster. How can you refuse a fair deal? Surely ECHR will then clamp down on that and wash its hands of the the whole thing.
Stop hinding behind human rights, lets put the human wrongs right first and then we can uphold the rights together. I will then join you no problem.

[Malapapa]

It’s obvious from the laughable number of applications made to the banana IPC (Indigenous Peoples’ Cleansing) that Cypriots aren’t falling for Turkey’s ethnic cleansing option!

It’s back to the old drawing board Turkey…

so you'll be holding out for a solution to the Cyprob then. Sorry to disappoint, but you'll wait a long long time, and you know what? the outcome will be just the same. You are well and truly in the proverbial POO my friends.

As Cypriots we’re going for the Cyprus option… the one no known foreigner has ever survived!

Here's a list of previous foreigners to the island the Cypriots have survived...

Hittites
Assyrians
Myceneans
Arcadians
Phoenicians
Persians
Macedonians
Romans
Arabs
Byzantines
Crusaders
Knights Templar
Lusignans
Maronites
Venetians
Ottomans
British
Greek military junta

[B25]

The ECHR has made a very grave error of judgement on this call.

There's no denying they have well and truly stuffed the GC nation.

They have seen fit to support an invader occupier and its colonised people(against 4th Geneva Convention) over the legitimate owners of properties in the north.

This is obviously, without a doubt, a prepared decision, political in its making and in its reasoning, since it is not logical to find the way they have otherwise.

How can an illegal settler have more rights than the legal owners of the properties??? How can we be forced against our will to face the invader for redress, how dare they shit all over us in favour of the wrong doers. Who will now have faith in the ECHR?

I demand that the RoC retalliates with strong words and actions, they will not last another term if they do nothing, I will make it my business to work against them in the next election.

if any of you MF government people are reading this, get you act together or else.

As much as I hate to say this, and it pains me to do so, it's one up for the TCs on this count, that doesn't mean we are stopping, just need to change our tactics a bit.

Onwards and upwards

[Solveit]

I don't think there is much we can do about it except use the IPC for restitution and exchange but refuse all offers of compensation.

Jerry that will not work. Yeah fine turn down the offer of compo and insist on restitution, take your appeal to the TRNC court, and then on to appeal to the ECHR after waiting god knows how long, but in all likelyhood as long as the IPC offer to you is deemed fair by the ECHR you will get nowhere as they will uphold the IPC decision. Again, if you read the ruling the ECHR opinion is that 'property' is a material object, and as long as fair compensation is offered that will be deemed as fair recompense.

The ECHR opinion states that the more times a property is handed down/inherited from the original occupier pre-74, the more time that is passed, so the link (and rights) are weakened, i.e. for someone who has since died and passed a property on in his/her will, the 'inheritor' may have never 'used' the property, therefore this person, cannot be classed as a 'refugee', nor can they claim for 'loss of use' of a property that they have either never occupied, or maybe occupied for a while in early childhood.

The ECHR are in effect saying that current occupiers can not be ejected in favour of someone who's links to the property over the years have been so diminished and as long as compensation is paid that is it. i.e. as said earlier, possession is 9/10 of the law and the other 1/10 will compensate the original occupier.

[Get Real!]

At the end of the day, this whole “IPC” story is a waste of time because 99.99% of GC refugees are clearly NOT interested in “compensation”, but their rightful ownership of their land/properties in the occupied territory.

Let the few who want compensation (mostly comprised of ex-Cypriots who have been overseas for too long to return or care about Cyprus anyway) deal with Turkey’s “IPC” (these fools will get what they deserve anyway), while the rest of us press on with trespassing and other inventive ways to keep check of our rightful properties.

End of story!