Cyprus-Forum.com

[Get Real!]

Now that things have seriously gone against you,

They are? Please expand...

[Get Real!]

The GC govt has never given cause for the Turkish army to leave,

Please be patient... we're working on it!

[Oracle]

The RoC has not done anything wrong!

It is not the one occupying another's land.

The RoC is not the one who forced people out of their properties at gunpoint.

So the RoC does not need to set up anything like an IPC. The IPC is the vehicle of Turkey as an occupying force! Not as a legitimate government.

I'd rather the RoC administered the way compensation and restitution was paid out to displaced Cypriots, rather than it be an inadequate vehicle and delay tactic of Turkey.

Why? It's not the official policy of the RoC to permanently deprive people of their homes!

Better if the RoC distanced itself away from these TCs' self-abandoned homes. It's up to the TCs to come back and carry on living in them. They have no reason not to. So why should a government look after someone's vacant home?

The reason it's different for Turkey (as the ECHRs has confirmed) is that they are illegally occupying Cyprus pending a settlement. It's their call! So they have to compensate those they are deliberately, under threat of violence, keeping from their properties. This does not apply to the actions of the RoC!

[Malapapa]

The RoC has not done anything wrong!

It is not the one occupying another's land.

The RoC is not the one who forced people out of their properties at gunpoint.

So the RoC does not need to set up anything like an IPC. The IPC is the vehicle of Turkey as an occupying force! Not as a legitimate government.

I'd rather the RoC administered the way compensation and restitution was paid out to displaced Cypriots, rather than it be an inadequate vehicle and delay tactic of Turkey.

Why? It's not the official policy of the RoC to permanently deprive people of their homes!

I should think not.

Better if the RoC distanced itself away from these TCs' self-abandoned homes. It's up to the TCs to come back and carry on living in them. They have no reason not to. So why should a government look after someone's vacant home?

The reason it's different for Turkey (as the ECHRs has confirmed) is that they are illegally occupying Cyprus pending a settlement. It's their call! So they have to compensate those they are deliberately, under threat of violence, keeping from their properties. This does not apply to the actions of the RoC!

The RoC and Cypriots must take control of this whole situation in my view or Turkey will delay, obfuscate, wherever possible compensate for rather than restore people's rights to their property. And the process will drag on for years - and then years longer if people choose to appeal to the ECHR. Many won't and will choose to cut their losses. This will suit Turkey but not Cyprus.

[Oracle]

The RoC has not done anything wrong!

It is not the one occupying another's land.

The RoC is not the one who forced people out of their properties at gunpoint.

So the RoC does not need to set up anything like an IPC. The IPC is the vehicle of Turkey as an occupying force! Not as a legitimate government.

I'd rather the RoC administered the way compensation and restitution was paid out to displaced Cypriots, rather than it be an inadequate vehicle and delay tactic of Turkey.

Why? It's not the official policy of the RoC to permanently deprive people of their homes!

I should think not.

Better if the RoC distanced itself away from these TCs' self-abandoned homes. It's up to the TCs to come back and carry on living in them. They have no reason not to. So why should a government look after someone's vacant home?

The reason it's different for Turkey (as the ECHRs has confirmed) is that they are illegally occupying Cyprus pending a settlement. It's their call! So they have to compensate those they are deliberately, under threat of violence, keeping from their properties. This does not apply to the actions of the RoC!

The RoC and Cypriots must take control of this whole situation in my view or Turkey will delay, obfuscate, wherever possible compensate for rather than restore people's rights to their property. And the process will drag on for years - and then years longer if people choose to appeal to the ECHR. Many won't and will choose to cut their losses. This will suit Turkey but not Cyprus.

No, Malapa, NO! You have missed the whole point. If the Courts are giving the IPC the benefit of the doubt (as they should) and instruct people to first visit there, and this process is then found wanting, as you stated above (delays etc), then it is NO longer a putatively effective remedy and then the GCs CAN go back to the ECHR as they have exhausted that avenue! Since the ECHR has not stated how long one has to wait, it is up to the individual to decide (sooner rather than later) that he has exhausted this avenue, as far as he is concerned, and in full compliance with the request of the ECHR ... So now the ECHR has to (re)consider the case!

[YFred]

The RoC has not done anything wrong!

It is not the one occupying another's land.

The RoC is not the one who forced people out of their properties at gunpoint.

So the RoC does not need to set up anything like an IPC. The IPC is the vehicle of Turkey as an occupying force! Not as a legitimate government.

I'd rather the RoC administered the way compensation and restitution was paid out to displaced Cypriots, rather than it be an inadequate vehicle and delay tactic of Turkey.

Why? It's not the official policy of the RoC to permanently deprive people of their homes!

I should think not.

Better if the RoC distanced itself away from these TCs' self-abandoned homes. It's up to the TCs to come back and carry on living in them. They have no reason not to. So why should a government look after someone's vacant home?

The reason it's different for Turkey (as the ECHRs has confirmed) is that they are illegally occupying Cyprus pending a settlement. It's their call! So they have to compensate those they are deliberately, under threat of violence, keeping from their properties. This does not apply to the actions of the RoC!

The RoC and Cypriots must take control of this whole situation in my view or Turkey will delay, obfuscate, wherever possible compensate for rather than restore people's rights to their property. And the process will drag on for years - and then years longer if people choose to appeal to the ECHR. Many won't and will choose to cut their losses. This will suit Turkey but not Cyprus.

No, Malapa, NO! You have missed the whole point. If the Courts are giving the IPC the benefit of the doubt (as they should) and instruct people to first visit there, and this process is then found wanting, as you stated above (delays etc), then it is NO longer a putatively effective remedy and then the GCs CAN go back to the ECHR as they have exhausted that avenue! Since the ECHR has not stated how long one has to wait, it is up to the individual to decide (sooner rather than later) that he has exhausted this avenue, as far as he is concerned, and in full compliance with the request of the ECHR ... So now the ECHR has to (re)consider the case!

How about by yesterday, would that do for you? Dearest?

[erolz3]

The RoC has not done anything wrong!

The RoC settled a case against it just before it was to be heard at the ECHR. In that seetlement they paid 100,000s of euros to a TC woman for having denied her her rights to her property by requiring her to first live in the RoC for 6 months before even being able to apply for its return.

If you have done nothing wrong you do not agree to pay someone 100's of thousands of euors for having done wrong to them.

The person who brought this case knew the RoC were denying her her legitimate rights, the ECHR knew that the RoC was denying her her rights and the RoC government that settled the case days before the ECHR ruling was to force a judgment on it knew it was denying her her rights.

Everyone konws and accepts that the requirement for her to first have to live in the RoC for 6 months before being able to even start to reclaim what was already hers and always was hers was a denial of her fundamental human rights. Everyone except people like you Oracle for whom reality is totaly meaningless.

Just as Turkey has been denying GC with protperty in the North their rights since 74, so to has the RoC been denying TC their rights re property in the south. This is just plain simple fact. Turkey has now put in place a mechanism to address this issue of its denial of GC rights , the IPC. The RoC has NOT yet put in places a mechanism or changes to is current laws to address the issue of its denial of TC rights. Sooner or later and by degrees it will be forced to do so just as Turkey was. The longer it takes the more it will owe in compensation to those whos rights they are currently denying, for that denial.

[Malapapa]

The RoC has not done anything wrong!

It is not the one occupying another's land.

The RoC is not the one who forced people out of their properties at gunpoint.

So the RoC does not need to set up anything like an IPC. The IPC is the vehicle of Turkey as an occupying force! Not as a legitimate government.

I'd rather the RoC administered the way compensation and restitution was paid out to displaced Cypriots, rather than it be an inadequate vehicle and delay tactic of Turkey.

Why? It's not the official policy of the RoC to permanently deprive people of their homes!

I should think not.

Better if the RoC distanced itself away from these TCs' self-abandoned homes. It's up to the TCs to come back and carry on living in them. They have no reason not to. So why should a government look after someone's vacant home?

The reason it's different for Turkey (as the ECHRs has confirmed) is that they are illegally occupying Cyprus pending a settlement. It's their call! So they have to compensate those they are deliberately, under threat of violence, keeping from their properties. This does not apply to the actions of the RoC!

The RoC and Cypriots must take control of this whole situation in my view or Turkey will delay, obfuscate, wherever possible compensate for rather than restore people's rights to their property. And the process will drag on for years - and then years longer if people choose to appeal to the ECHR. Many won't and will choose to cut their losses. This will suit Turkey but not Cyprus.

No, Malapa, NO! You have missed the whole point.

No. O, NO! Not at all. Owners of property should have the first say as to what is done to it, not Turkey through the IPC. This is the president's position.

If the Courts are giving the IPC the benefit of the doubt (as they should)

I don't think they should. Not at all. The whole thing stinks to high heaven and Cypriots seriously need to take control of this situation. Read what the Cypriot attorney general says:

http://www.cyprusweekly.com.cy/main/92, ... 6607-.aspx

Turkey (and indeed the other guarantors) should agree to put money aside as compensation and let Cypriots, locally, decide how it's paid out to displaced Cypriots north and south; not the illegal occupier and its illegal regime, making decisions on our behalf, in their own interests.

and instruct people to first visit there, and this process is then found wanting, as you stated above (delays etc), then it is NO longer a putatively effective remedy and then the GCs CAN go back to the ECHR as they have exhausted that avenue!

This will delay things by a year or two at least.... and then some. And refugees have first to appeal to the illegal regime's "high administrative court" before they can eventually go back to the ECHR.

And the ECHR has, in any event, accepted, no doubt responding to political lobbying by Turkey, that the human rights of current occupiers (whose presence in north Cyprus may well constitute a war crime) ought to be given due consideration. This will now result in the IPC offering compensation only rather than restitution and compensation. In other words Turkey holds onto, and where absolutely necessary buys the ethnically cleansed north, through its IPC.

Since the ECHR has not stated how long one has to wait, it is up to the individual to decide (sooner rather than later) that he has exhausted this avenue, as far as he is concerned, and in full compliance with the request of the ECHR ... So now the ECHR has to (re)consider the case!

How many years will that take?

[Get Real!]

The RoC has not done anything wrong!

The RoC settled a case against it just before it was to be heard at the ECHR. In that seetlement they paid 100,000s of euros to a TC woman for having denied her her rights to her property by requiring her to first live in the RoC for 6 months before even being able to apply for its return.

If you have done nothing wrong you do not agree to pay someone 100's of thousands of euors for having done wrong to them.

The person who brought this case knew the RoC were denying her her legitimate rights, the ECHR knew that the RoC was denying her her rights and the RoC government that settled the case days before the ECHR ruling was to force a judgment on it knew it was denying her her rights.

Everyone konws and accepts that the requirement for her to first have to live in the RoC for 6 months before being able to even start to reclaim what was already hers and always was hers was a denial of her fundamental human rights. Everyone except people like you Oracle for whom reality is totaly meaningless.

Just as Turkey has been denying GC with protperty in the North their rights since 74, so to has the RoC been denying TC their rights re property in the south. This is just plain simple fact. Turkey has now put in place a mechanism to address this issue of its denial of GC rights , the IPC. The RoC has NOT yet put in places a mechanism or changes to is current laws to address the issue of its denial of TC rights. Sooner or later and by degrees it will be forced to do so just as Turkey was. The longer it takes the more it will owe in compensation to those whos rights they are currently denying, for that denial.

These “mechanisms” you talk about are only good for those who no longer care about owning their property and just want to sell it and cash in! Most being non-Cyprus residents btw, and very few in number. It’s also worthwhile to mention that this Sofi was living overseas and that’s why the RoC made an exception to the 6 month rule, but I can’t see that exception being granted to Cyprus residents.

So, I’m not surprised by the recent ECHR outcome the other day because if someone goes to court and says “I’m being denied my property!” then it’s logical for the answer to be… “Ok, go to Turkey (IPC) for compensation and if you’re not satisfied come back!”!

I mean, what did these fools expect? That the ECHR was going to militarily throw out Turkey and give them their properties back?

On the other hand, Apostolides’ gripe was very different which went…

“My property is caught up over there but it’s still mine and I don’t want anyone trespassing it!”

So naturally the ECHR replies… “Ok, the trespasser pays a fine (rental whatever) and demolishes the illegal house!” Makes perfect sense!

So if anything, this is a lesson to be learned that one should NOT expect a court to give them back what is being held by a military force except for monetary compensation, in which case you’d be playing right into Turkey’s game of ethnic cleansing!

[Oracle]

The RoC has not done anything wrong!

The RoC settled a case against it just before it was to be heard at the ECHR. In that seetlement they paid 100,000s of euros to a TC woman for having denied her her rights to her property by requiring her to first live in the RoC for 6 months before even being able to apply for its return.

If you have done nothing wrong you do not agree to pay someone 100's of thousands of euors ...

Happens all the time ... They were being blackmailed.