Cyprus-Forum.com

[Malapapa]

OK you guarantee-obsessed Cyprus Turks who need to feel safe. Let's see how commited you are to this "guarantee" premise.

What if free Cypriots insist on Russia's guarantee, to replace the fork-tongued Brits and the weak, wishy-washy Greeks? In order to feel safe?

So if Turkey oversteps the mark in Cyprus, Russia would be duty bound to intervene, if needs be in Turkey?

Or how about China? I'm sure either country would be flattered to be asked to play such a peace-keeping role in the eastern-Med?

Or better still, what about Turkey and all five permanent members of the UN Security Council being guarantors? And if Turkey dared to intervene unilaterally against the wishes of the UNSC, all would be duty bound to kick Turkey's backside?

How does any of this sound? Does this solve the guarantee issue? Would everyone feel safe with such an arrangement?

[Kikapu]

OK you guarantee-obsessed Cyprus Turks who need to feel safe. Let's see how commited you are to this "guarantee" premise.

What if free Cypriots insist on Russia's guarantee, to replace the fork-tongued Brits and the weak, wishy-washy Greeks? In order to feel safe?

So if Turkey oversteps the mark in Cyprus, Russia would be duty bound to intervene, if needs be in Turkey?

Or how about China? I'm sure either country would be flattered to be asked to play such a peace-keeping role in the eastern-Med?

Or better still, what about Turkey and all five permanent members of the UN Security Council being guarantors? And if Turkey dared to intervene unilaterally against the wishes of the UNSC, all would be duty bound to kick Turkey's backside?

How does any of this sound? Does this solve the guarantee issue? What everyone feel safe with such an arrangement?

But the TA still needs to go, right.??

It is ONLY on paper that Turkey would have "intervening rights", in case the fascists from both sides start trouble for Enosis or Taksim, in which case the Russians or the Chinese would come and kick their butts way before Turkey can even announce that they are coming, which by that time, the crisis will be over.!

[Malapapa]

But the TA still needs to go, right.??

Sure. But they can come back any time, so long as Russia approves. And if they don't... well maybe they could divide Turkey and occupy 38% of its territory - until the Turks saw reason...

It is ONLY on paper that Turkey would have "intervening rights", in case the fascists from both sides start trouble for Enosis or Taksim, in which case the Russians or the Chinese would come and kick their butts way before Turkey can even announce that they are coming, which by that time, the crisis will be over.!

Everyone's happy. So how about it, Cyprus Turks? Turkey guarantees Cyprus Turks... Russia or China or all five permanent members guarantees us all against Turkey. Deal?

[CopperLine]

The wish for there to be guarantor powers (by whichever 'side') is a function of insecurity. So those who oppose in principle the idea of guarantors (me included) have to first acknowledge what those insecurities are and second address those insecurities in a manner which will reduce them to such a point which obviates the demand for a guarantor.

[paliometoxo]

last time un had to aprove? how much did that stop turkey

[Malapapa]

The wish for there to be guarantor powers (by whichever 'side') is a function of insecurity. So those who oppose in principle the idea of guarantors (me included) have to first acknowledge what those insecurities are and second address those insecurities in a manner which will reduce them to such a point which obviates the demand for a guarantor.

That's what I'm trying to do here CopperLine. Cyprus Turks feel insecure about free Cypriots attacking them and want Turkey to guarantee their safety. Free Cypriots feel insecure about Turkey attacking them and want someone to guarantee their safety. By having such a guarantee arrangement we address everyone's fears and obviate the need for a guarantor.

[Kikapu]

The wish for there to be guarantor powers (by whichever 'side') is a function of insecurity. So those who oppose in principle the idea of guarantors (me included) have to first acknowledge what those insecurities are and second address those insecurities in a manner which will reduce them to such a point which obviates the demand for a guarantor.

Right Copperline, and since both sides can't agree if there should be a certain "Guarantor Power", just because of their history in Cyprus of that particular Guarantor Power, it is then best to find an alternative source to provide the security, if in fact it's needed. The key word here is "security" and not who provides it. Does it matter if I drive a Ford or a Nissan to get from A to B just because Toyota cars are having a brake problems. No, of course not. I can still get to where I'm going, just not with a car with faulty brakes on a Toyota. Same applies here with the security issues, if security was the ONLY issue, which I doubt very much, it being just that.!

[Malapapa]

last time un had to aprove? how much did that stop turkey

No, the UN didn't have to approve action by the guarantors...

From orginal treaty of guarantee

http://www.kypros.org/Cyprus_Problem/treaty.html#B

ARTICLE 3
In the event of any breach of the provisions of the present Treaty, Greece, the United Kingdom, and Turkey undertake to consult together, with a view to making representations, or taking the necessary steps to ensure observance of those provisions. In so far as common or concerted action may prove impossible, each of the three guaranteeing Powers reserves the right to take action with the sole aim of re-establishing the state of affairs established by the present Treaty.

[Viewpoint]

I agree each side should be allowed to choose their own guarantor country.

[Malapapa]

I agree each side should be allowed to choose their own guarantor country.

Brilliant. I choose all five permanent members of the UNSC to guarantee Cyprus against Turkey. But failing that I'd live with just Russia, which shares a border with Turkey, has interests in Cyprus, and who would relish the opportunity to kick Turkey's butt if it ever Turkey dared to over-step the mark in Cyprus again.